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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 30, 2013 16:39:02 GMT -5
There was some talk at the end of last year that the Red Sox checked on the availability of Mauer. Were told the Twins aren't dealing him. Wouldn't happen until July deadline. Twins have to collapse. Which is possible. Not much pitching at all. They are going to lose Morneau at the end of the year. Is Mauer going to be happy playing on a crappy team as he enters the "Twilight of his career?"(OK..I stole that) I think he'd almost have to approach the Twins about moving on. Now that the Sox appear to have re-estabished themselves as a destination team. The Yanks are out of the picture if they want to stay under 189m and keep Cano. I think it makes sense. I think our two biggest holes are a 3-hole hitter and catcher. Kills two birds with one stone. He's not going to catch 5 more year. But, Papi is only on the hook for one more year. Can always move Napoli to DH if we re-up him and move Mauer to 1b. I think we can also manage his games caught over the next couple of years by hitting him at DH and playing first occasionally. Papi and Napoli aren't 162g type players. He'd absolutely kill it at Fenway. By the time he's ready to move out of catcher, maybe Swihart and Vazquez are ready to take over. Package would depend on how desperate Minny would be to move his contract. Due 23m per for 5 more years after this year. Ranaudo, Owens and Brentz?? Have the 7th pick to replace the pitching we'd be losing. aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-11-28/joe-mauer-trade-rumors-minnesota-twins-boston-red-sox-hot-stove
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Post by sopaulking on May 1, 2013 6:42:59 GMT -5
Great idea, we have a good thing going. Lets just blow up the farm to snag a big name over paid player who is going to have to change positions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 16:30:55 GMT -5
Great idea, we have a good thing going. Lets just blow up the farm to snag a big name over paid player who is going to have to change positions. I agree. Not worth it to trade away the entire farm system for a catcher entering the twilight of his career, likely to switch positions, and requires BIG money late into his late 30's. Although he is still a very good hitter, his power is gone. He is also injury prone. I'll pass on Mauer.
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Post by larrycook on May 5, 2013 9:29:46 GMT -5
I would be very upset to see top young arms traded.
While I agree we have some really good depth and a chance to add top Arkansas pitcher via the draft. I don't think we need to use those chips for anything less than an ace.
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 5, 2013 10:18:44 GMT -5
Once upon a time Mauer would have been great to have. I think that time has passed. I've been looking around the stats for catchers. There is very little chance of getting a good, established one in a trade that would make any sense. So what about some others?
It is possible that there is a much more interesting possibility in Atlanta where Evan Gattis won April rookie honors in the NL, subbing for McCann, who is recovering from surgery. McCann will be back on the big club this week. Despite his record, Gattis may be back in the minors.
Gattis in 88 ABs: .250/.302/.557 with 7 HRs. According to the BA propect book, where he was ranked #8 among Braves' prospects, he is rough as a catcher, but has a strong arm. With the Braves he has made one error, one PB, and thrown out 3 of 10 base stealers.
The Braves were in the process of converting Gattis to the OF. He has tremendous power. He's a big guy, 6-4, 230. RH hitter.
From what I read McCann will get his job back right away.
One or the other might make a really good acquisition. If Gattis is too rough for catcher, he might fit real well into LF and provide some much needed big-time power.
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Post by James Dunne on May 5, 2013 13:23:13 GMT -5
Mauer is one of those guys I find it hard to be objective about. All of the reasons why they shouldn't try to acquire him are legitimate, but I start thinking of him spending the summer peppering doubles off of the Monster and I get myself rather excited.
Also, I've been saying for years that I think Mauer has the physical skills to be an elite defensive 3B. Great footwork, great arm, fantastic athleticism.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 5, 2013 14:59:32 GMT -5
Mauer is 30. Even if he played a less strenuous position he is about to enter the decline stage. In fact, as a catcher, he seems to have already entered it in some respects. His power is way down. He only hit 31 doubles last year. His OPS is down below .800. And he makes $23 million, a salary reflecting his past glory, not his present and almost certainly not his future, as often is the case.
Yes, it would have been great to have had him a few years ago. But he is not Manny, and is not worth what he is being paid now.
He would improve the team now, and if it were just for now, then it would be worth it. But there are five more years on that contract.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 5, 2013 22:47:54 GMT -5
Great obp last year, but not necessarily the power you want from a corner infielder. He's worth more to Minnesota than any other team at this point, making him not worth what it'd take to get him. I'm not buying, personally.
League averages this year:
1B: .264/.342/.434 3B: .260/.324/.413 C: .247/.314/.416
If he moves off catcher, he's nowhere near as valuable, but if he can cut it at third, then maybe he'd be ok. That doesn't seem to be the case though - you know any 6-5, 230 pound third basemen? He's got two inches on A-Rod.
If he's at first, his on-base makes him continue to be above-average, but his slugging will be at or just above the league average. Not a big fan of paying him $23 million NOW, nevermind in 2018 when his deal is up. The only guy the Sox even have signed past 2015 is Buchholz, whose deal goes through 2017. I'd hate to see them lose any of that flexibility for a guy who'll be Ortiz's replacement at DH.
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Post by James Dunne on May 6, 2013 8:26:20 GMT -5
Great obp last year, but not necessarily the power you want from a corner infielder. He's worth more to Minnesota than any other team at this point, making him not worth what it'd take to get him. I'm not buying, personally. League averages this year: 1B: .264/.342/.434 3B: .260/.324/.413 C: .247/.314/.416 If he moves off catcher, he's nowhere near as valuable, but if he can cut it at third, then maybe he'd be ok. That doesn't seem to be the case though - you know any 6-5, 230 pound third basemen? He's got two inches on A-Rod. If he's at first, his on-base makes him continue to be above-average, but his slugging will be at or just above the league average. Not a big fan of paying him $23 million NOW, nevermind in 2018 when his deal is up. The only guy the Sox even have signed past 2015 is Buchholz, whose deal goes through 2017. I'd hate to see them lose any of that flexibility for a guy who'll be Ortiz's replacement at DH. Scott Rolen and Chipper Jones were 6'4", and Rolen was one of the better defensive third basemen ever. Chipper was not so much, but he held his own there, and he was a lot bulkier than Mauer by age 30. I've never seen a 6'5" catcher with Mauer's footwork either ( EDIT: Sandy Alomar popped into my head after I wrote this. He was excellent when he came up). It'd be worth a shot, because a .380-.400 OBP makes a player valuable at third, even if he can't slug .450. That's not necessarily true at first. EDIT #2: I'm not saying trading for him is a good idea either, because he makes way, way too much money. But from a pure baseball standpoint, if he can play third I'd rate him a plus player. He's certainly not the prototype there, so skepticism is warranted.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 7, 2013 0:53:26 GMT -5
Not buying that Mauer can make the transition to third base. Yes, he's a great athlete. But he'll be a 30+ year old great athlete with knees that are probably way older than that. And then you're asking him to move to a demanding postion he's never played as a pro. AND he has to do it at the major league level, because he damn sure isn't going back down to the minors to learn third base. There's a reason that so few catchers have made the transition to positions other than first, and even when they do, it's usually at a much younger age (Sandoval, Biggio).
Joe Mauer is awesome and I wouldn't put it past him to move to third. But I also wouldn't trade for him under the assumption that he's anything other than a 1B/DH.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 7, 2013 7:03:38 GMT -5
We look to be on the cusp of something this year, with lots of solid arms coming up in the next few years. We don't have a lot of guys with long term contracts so we have payroll flexibility and we got under the luxury tax limit last year. I don't see a big problem snagging a guy like Mauer right now or at the break. The biggest problem is that he is Minnesota's biggest fan draw and an icon ...etc. But Minnesota is in rebuild mode. If they want to win it all at some point they probably need to move Mauer for prospects and hope that deal helps take them over the top. I don't think the Twins will pull the trigger though but let's explore it assuming at some point they might.
Most of the Twins top prospects are in AA ball or below. Byron Buxton, Alex Mayer, Miguel Sano. Those are premium guys there and a they have other decent prospects coming up. Their best shot is to optimize for when those guys start making it in mlb.
From the Redsox perspective, I do think he is overpaid of course but he is at a premium position and he is 30, not 35 plus like a lot of aging FA who might be available. And that kind of production out of the catcher position is to a degree game changing. Great teams often have great catchers ( Posey for example? ). If they are going to spend money on someone going forward, who exactly is that going to be? Would you prefer that it be Ellsbury? To me, Ellsbury is a solid player but he is more easily replaced than a guy like Mauer. Even if Mauer is a part time catcher, that is fine. He could put in some time at 1st also, and DH after that. We can slot him 100 games at catcher far into the future and make him a part time DH and part time 1st baseman with no problem. He probably is not worth the money at that point but sometimes you have to overpay some to have a championship level team.
If the Yanks are not going to be players ( which I think may not be true ) and the Twins actually do want to move him while he is not a complete salary dump, I like Mauer on this team, at the break giving us that #3 bat we could use and being optimized to pepper that wall for years to come. If it costs us some prospects, I think we have plenty. We should keep Bogaerts but the Twins don't probably covet him that much anyway with Sano probably at 3rd for them eventually but they may want Iglesias. As well as some other prospects, including some of our minor league pitching. We would have to give some value of course but to some degree Mauer is a salary dump. For this team, which could spend the money, I think he would be a solid fit and just maybe take this team to a championship level going forward.
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Post by widewordofsport on May 7, 2013 7:43:27 GMT -5
I always overrate young cheap arms. With the payroll penalties, the 'potential' of a prospect is more valuable than ever.
Mauer may be better than average for a catcher, but at $23 million, maybe not. Sort of like what you see in football, where a player is not worth his production, but rather how much his production outweighs his stats.
If the going rate for a 'win' (WAR) in free agency is $5M, Mauer needs to put up 4-5 WAR every year just to be a break-even. Anything less in WAR, the Twins should hypothetically be giving him away (not realistic I know). Meanwhile Barnes/Ranaudo/Owens will all be 'values' to some degree, making the minimum for three years.
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Post by widewordofsport on May 7, 2013 7:45:09 GMT -5
I don't trust aging catchers, and I don't see Mauer's value at all if he moves to a corner IF spot. $23M for a 1B/DH, gonna have to see better than a .789 OPS. Right now, James Loney is a better 1B.
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Post by widewordofsport on May 7, 2013 7:46:27 GMT -5
thelavarnwayguy: the Red Sox have less payroll flex than you think. Pushing salary limits now, and may want to sign a guy like Middlebrooks to longer term deal. I don't even think they can take on Mauer without moving salary right now.
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Post by jdb on May 22, 2013 10:24:37 GMT -5
I just don't know about taking on that contract but in my mind we need another bat and C or LF are about our only options assuming we arent giving up on WMBs. Currently he has a wRC of 144 which is good for the third highest at C, 6th at 1B and first at DH(assume Ortiz doesn't have the ABs). His wOBA is .386 and good for third at C, 6th at 1B and again would lead at DH.
Given on how I think he would perform at Fenway in our lineup I think I would lean towards rolling the dice assuming the cost isn't crazy. I think for the next few years he could catch 60-65% of the games (110 or so) and DH and play first for around 30 or so when Ortiz and Napoli need to rest their Achilles and hip. Maybe when Ortiz retires he could DH the majority of time and catch 40-50 games. I really think it would come down to prospect cost.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 22, 2013 11:27:03 GMT -5
thelavarnwayguy: the Red Sox have less payroll flex than you think. Pushing salary limits now, and may want to sign a guy like Middlebrooks to longer term deal. I don't even think they can take on Mauer without moving salary right now. The Twins are going to dangle Mauer in front of all teams probably for years and he is such a fan draw in MN that they don't trade him anyway. These sorts of discussions are largely pointless but i don't think extending Middlebrooks is a priority for us right now. No way that stops such a deal. We have some minor league talent which would fit their needs though. Near mlb ready catchers, starting pitching prospects...etc. And we can go over the luxury tax limit one year if we are in the running this year, as we appear to be. Look what Cabrera did for Detroit. Do we not need such a bat and would he not be optimized for Fenway? And we can afford it both short term and long term. We have a lot of contracts coming off the books. JBJ can maybe step in for Ellsbury. Drew is a 1 year deal. Our current 1st baseman is a one year deal. The stars are aligned on our end. I would absolutely consider it if we can pull this off at a reasonable cost.
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Post by hammerhead on May 22, 2013 14:20:42 GMT -5
An aging catcher, who most likely has to switch position and has probably seen his best days already? On a lengthy, very expensive deal?
No Thanks
These are the kinds of deal we just shipped off half the team to the Dodgers to get out of. Yes, Mauer is still a tremendous talent, but this team is being built with a solid plan, trading for Mauer would blow up that plan. It would take top top prospects to get him on top of all that. That's not even taking into account that Salty is actually putting up above average numbers for a catcher, Lavarnway didn't look lost and Ross should be back soon.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 22, 2013 15:36:57 GMT -5
The guy is 30 years old. He should still produce for years to come. He's healthy and hitting. At a premium position. We can use Lavarnway to help get him. I would definitely consider it. It depends upon the deal of course but I would absolutely consider it.
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Joe Mauer
Aug 4, 2013 19:54:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jrffam05 on Aug 4, 2013 19:54:36 GMT -5
Just wanted to put this out there, if mauer was placed on waivers would you/should the red sox take on his contract?
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2013 20:12:50 GMT -5
Mike Berardino ?@mikeberardino Per Rob Antony, #mntwins will NOT place Joe Mauer on waivers this August. "Just too much confusion" last year when they did
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 7, 2016 18:42:27 GMT -5
Doubt this would happen due to tax implications but how about:
Joe Mauer + Buddy Boshers
for
Rusney Castillo + Marco Hernandez
The overall salary is close, Mauer would be a short-term (2 year) fill-in/depth at 1B/DH and Boshers is a very interesting arm that looks like he jsut figured out control last year (and is a lefty reliever)
Rusney and Marco have no place on the Red Sox, but could be useful pieces for the Twins down the road.
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Post by rookie13 on Nov 7, 2016 21:26:08 GMT -5
He was probably my favorite non-sox player from 08-2013, but he's a shell of his old self at this point and has been terrible against LHP the last 3 years, while only being a little better than league average against RHP. Don't see where he fits on the Sox next year. The contracts are close but I don't see either team being keen on a deal like this.
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