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2023 MLB Playoffs - World Series Thread
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 25, 2023 7:49:04 GMT -5
WORLD SERIES
All times ET
Friday, Oct. 27 AZ @ TEX, Game 1, 8 p.m. (FOX)
Saturday, Oct. 28 AZ @ TEX, Game 2, 8 p.m. (FOX)
Monday, Oct. 30 TEX @ AZ, Game 3, 8 p.m. (FOX)
Tuesday, Oct. 31 TEX @ AZ, Game 4, 8 p.m. (FOX)
Wednesday, Nov. 1 TEX @ AZ, Game 5 (if necessary), 8 p.m. (FOX)
Friday, Nov. 3 AZ @ TEX, Game 6 (if necessary), 8 p.m. (FOX)
Saturday, Nov. 4 AZ @ TEX, Game 7 (if necessary), 8 p.m. (FOX)
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,916
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Post by nomar on Oct 25, 2023 15:47:08 GMT -5
Love when the World Series is between two teams I don’t hate
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Post by ephus on Oct 25, 2023 16:00:16 GMT -5
The biggest payroll to make the playoffs vs. the lowest payroll to make it past the wildcard round. A team that paid for a team to fill a new stadium vs. a team that was built from the ground up. I don't want to hear any hate that this is a bogus match-up. This is stuff we Boston fans used to live for. From spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2023/1 New York Mets $343,605,067 2 New York Yankees $278,651,150 3 San Diego Padres $256,045,688 4 Texas Rangers $251,332,754 5 Phil Phillies $245,419,295 21 Arizona Diamondbacks $119,257,651 22 Miami Marlins $105,435,809 27 Tampa Bay Rays $79,354,272
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Post by bluechip on Oct 25, 2023 19:28:07 GMT -5
Eovaldi v. Gallen in game 1.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 26, 2023 6:45:29 GMT -5
MLB is getting exactly what it deserves with the will-be low ratings this year in the World Series. These teams have the lowest combined wins of all-time to be squaring off on this stage. I used to root against the WC3 teams, but now instead I want the 84 win team to win while the 3 100+ and the 99 win teams all got embarrassed.
The sport has become hockey where the regular season is just one long exhibition.
I am also rooting for the Diamondbacks though to make radio personalities heads explode over the narrative that the Red Sox aren't winning because they're not spending money while a team with a smaller payroll gets a ring.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Oct 26, 2023 7:44:28 GMT -5
MLB is getting exactly what it deserves with the will-be low ratings this year in the World Series. These teams have the lowest combined wins of all-time to be squaring off on this stage. I used to root against the WC3 teams, but now instead I want the 84 win team to win while the 3 100+ and the 99 win teams all got embarrassed. The sport has become hockey where the regular season is just one long exhibition. I am also rooting for the Diamondbacks though to make radio personalities heads explode over the narrative that the Red Sox aren't winning because they're not spending money while a team with a smaller payroll gets a ring. Conversely if the WC teams never won it what would be the point? It's not like it's wild card team going up against wild card team every world series. I could get on board with your position if this was the world series we see year in and year out; where the wild card team is constantly dominating, but I don't think that's the case. I feel it's a healthy mix. Also lets be honest. Does anybody (outside of their own fan base) really want to see the ASTROS and the PHILLIES? I'm personally happy to not see those two teams make it.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Oct 26, 2023 8:12:23 GMT -5
In hockey teams have to go through 4 rounds of best of 7 series to win the Stanley Cup, no byes, no one-and-dones, no short series which increase the chances for an upset. Yes the Bruins were bumped out in the first round despite having a record setting regular season, but it took all 7 games and the 8th seed that beat them made it all the way to the finals where they lost to arguably the second best regular season team. I think baseball's post season problem is the short series and byes, not the fact that a number of teams qualify. After all teams restructure during the season, young players grow into the game, injured players come and go, teams start hot and cool off and vice versa. Are you really going to complain about the brand of baseball being played by Arizona with good pitching and defense, timely hitting and excellent baserunning? And they're now facing a team with great hitting and solid D and pitching, it should be interesting and fun to watch. As I mentioned elsewhere, IMHO MLB should have a 16 team, 4 round, best of 7 tourney - it keeps fans interested during the loooong regular season and gives the better teams the best chance to prove themselves and overcome in a game where luck plays a significant role.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 26, 2023 9:28:09 GMT -5
I don't see there being a lot of evidence that more playoff teams drives more fan interest in the regular season. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true - not making the playoffs now is basically a failure, driving a lot more negativity around the teams that don't make it.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 26, 2023 11:23:52 GMT -5
In hockey teams have to go through 4 rounds of best of 7 series to win the Stanley Cup, no byes, no one-and-dones, no short series which increase the chances for an upset. Yes the Bruins were bumped out in the first round despite having a record setting regular season, but it took all 7 games and the 8th seed that beat them made it all the way to the finals where they lost to arguably the second best regular season team. I think baseball's post season problem is the short series and byes, not the fact that a number of teams qualify. After all teams restructure during the season, young players grow into the game, injured players come and go, teams start hot and cool off and vice versa. Are you really going to complain about the brand of baseball being played by Arizona with good pitching and defense, timely hitting and excellent baserunning? And they're now facing a team with great hitting and solid D and pitching, it should be interesting and fun to watch. As I mentioned elsewhere, IMHO MLB should have a 16 team, 4 round, best of 7 tourney - it keeps fans interested during the loooong regular season and gives the better teams the best chance to prove themselves and overcome in a game where luck plays a significant role. The problem I find with hockey is that it feels like standings and position hardly matter. Just shake up the teams like a game of dice and you'll get your winner. Maybe that's an unfair assessment, but that has been my feeling about it for the last few years. Could just be sour grapes about the Bruins. NBA has a bunch of teams, but it's always top 4 seeds that win it, which might be going too far the other way. Arizona is playing out of their minds right now, but after ignoring this team for 162, it's hard to jump at the excitement of them getting to the WS, especially when the team on the other side kind of just fell apart a bit before picking themselves back up. Astros are fun to root against. Phillies had the biggest name in Harper. If it were David v Goliath maybe, but one team might win a ring with a .514 record and a 3rd WC spot vs a team with an OK record, 2nd WC finish and is a team that has never won a ring. For the casual fan, I'm having a hard time seeing the allure. Now, after hearing all year about how great the Braves are going against the 99 win Orioles. That, I can see casual fans turning into. More teams further dilutes the regular season. It has to have meaning other than trimming out the truly terrible organizations. I also hate every series going 7 rounds. It just drags the whole thing if the playoffs turn into a mini-season of its own. I like high stakes, high pressure baseball. Game 1 of 7 in round 1 doesn't really interest me all that much. Not saying the ALCS or WS should be less than 7. Those are the 2 series that should drag a bit.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 26, 2023 12:13:23 GMT -5
I don't see there being a lot of evidence that more playoff teams drives more fan interest in the regular season. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true - not making the playoffs now is basically a failure, driving a lot more negativity around the teams that don't make it. Well, having more playoff slots was certainly the only thing that kept Sox fans interest into September the past two seasons. The biggest problem with so many teams qualifying, IMO, is it keeps obvious sellers at the deadline, like the 2022 & ‘23 Red Sox, from properly selling (indeed, they might not have been sellers in ‘23 if they sold right In ‘22).
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 26, 2023 12:14:45 GMT -5
In hockey teams have to go through 4 rounds of best of 7 series to win the Stanley Cup, no byes, no one-and-dones, no short series which increase the chances for an upset. Yes the Bruins were bumped out in the first round despite having a record setting regular season, but it took all 7 games and the 8th seed that beat them made it all the way to the finals where they lost to arguably the second best regular season team. I think baseball's post season problem is the short series and byes, not the fact that a number of teams qualify. After all teams restructure during the season, young players grow into the game, injured players come and go, teams start hot and cool off and vice versa. Are you really going to complain about the brand of baseball being played by Arizona with good pitching and defense, timely hitting and excellent baserunning? And they're now facing a team with great hitting and solid D and pitching, it should be interesting and fun to watch. As I mentioned elsewhere, IMHO MLB should have a 16 team, 4 round, best of 7 tourney - it keeps fans interested during the loooong regular season and gives the better teams the best chance to prove themselves and overcome in a game where luck plays a significant role. The problem I find with hockey is that it feels like standings and position hardly matter. Just shake up the teams like a game of dice and you'll get your winner. Maybe that's an unfair assessment, but that has been my feeling about it for the last few years. Could just be sour grapes about the Bruins. NBA has a bunch of teams, but it's always top 4 seeds that win it, which might be going too far the other way. Arizona is playing out of their minds right now, but after ignoring this team for 162, it's hard to jump at the excitement of them getting to the WS, especially when the team on the other side kind of just fell apart a bit before picking themselves back up. Astros are fun to root against. Phillies had the biggest name in Harper. If it were David v Goliath maybe, but one team might win a ring with a .514 record and a 3rd WC spot vs a team with an OK record, 2nd WC finish and is a team that has never won a ring. For the casual fan, I'm having a hard time seeing the allure. Now, after hearing all year about how great the Braves are going against the 99 win Orioles. That, I can see casual fans turning into. More teams further dilutes the regular season. It has to have meaning other than trimming out the truly terrible organizations. I also hate every series going 7 rounds. It just drags the whole thing if the playoffs turn into a mini-season of its own. I like high stakes, high pressure baseball. Game 1 of 7 in round 1 doesn't really interest me all that much. Not saying the ALCS or WS should be less than 7. Those are the 2 series that should drag a bit. I like watching baseball, so I’ll be watching. Go Snakes!
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 26, 2023 12:30:02 GMT -5
The problem I find with hockey is that it feels like standings and position hardly matter. Just shake up the teams like a game of dice and you'll get your winner. Maybe that's an unfair assessment, but that has been my feeling about it for the last few years. Could just be sour grapes about the Bruins. NBA has a bunch of teams, but it's always top 4 seeds that win it, which might be going too far the other way. Arizona is playing out of their minds right now, but after ignoring this team for 162, it's hard to jump at the excitement of them getting to the WS, especially when the team on the other side kind of just fell apart a bit before picking themselves back up. Astros are fun to root against. Phillies had the biggest name in Harper. If it were David v Goliath maybe, but one team might win a ring with a .514 record and a 3rd WC spot vs a team with an OK record, 2nd WC finish and is a team that has never won a ring. For the casual fan, I'm having a hard time seeing the allure. Now, after hearing all year about how great the Braves are going against the 99 win Orioles. That, I can see casual fans turning into. More teams further dilutes the regular season. It has to have meaning other than trimming out the truly terrible organizations. I also hate every series going 7 rounds. It just drags the whole thing if the playoffs turn into a mini-season of its own. I like high stakes, high pressure baseball. Game 1 of 7 in round 1 doesn't really interest me all that much. Not saying the ALCS or WS should be less than 7. Those are the 2 series that should drag a bit. I like watching baseball, so I’ll be watching. Go Snakes! I'm going to be tuned in, but the WC3 bugs me. My thing is about the attraction for the casual fan. I think the interest would be different if the DBacks won 110 games, but maybe not.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,696
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 26, 2023 15:30:00 GMT -5
I like watching baseball, so I’ll be watching. Go Snakes! I'm going to be tuned in, but the WC3 bugs me. My thing is about the attraction for the casual fan. I think the interest would be different if the DBacks won 110 games, but maybe not. Agreed. I cant stand WC3. I prefer the days of the 2 division 26 team, 4 post season teams setup, with no wild card. I hated the addition of the wild card but what can you do? Hated the concept but with the Yankees finishing 1st every year the Sox were the biggest beneficiaries. But I didnt like how the wild card felt no need to finish 1st and preferred resting for the playoffs. To my surprise I liked the 1 game 2 wild card sudden death setup better. It punished a team for not winning the division. Those 1 game playoffs are scary. And it didnt put out the rest of the teams like how now the top seeds are on ice for awhile waiting for an 84 win team to play. Now there's too many teams who make the playoffs. Finishing first doesn't really apparently matter that much.
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Post by yuchangclan on Oct 26, 2023 15:35:09 GMT -5
I like watching baseball, so I’ll be watching. Go Snakes! I'm going to be tuned in, but the WC3 bugs me. My thing is about the attraction for the casual fan. I think the interest would be different if the DBacks won 110 games, but maybe not. Unless the mega-market teams like the Yankees, Mets, Cubs or Dodgers are in the WS, I don’t think the masses are really watching anyway. Baseball has mostly become a game with regional interest. It’s not like the old days where baseball drew big ratings.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Oct 26, 2023 15:52:54 GMT -5
I have no problem with the current playoff format. I hated the 1 game WC playoff and like the progressive 3,5,7,7 ramp up of the series length. The NBA/ NHL four 7 game format works against regular season interest with me. I can't follow a whole season closely and the potential 2 month playoff season. So as a fan I'll track my teams during the regular season but not really get in to it until the playoffs. Which of course is after The Sox season has started which for me trumps any other sport hands down.
As big of a baseball fan that I am, if the Sox are not in the series I need a compelling interest to watch, or I will not bother. This year it is the Rangers chase for their 1st WS title. That is exciting and fun to watch !!!!
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Post by bluechip on Oct 26, 2023 17:07:03 GMT -5
I'm going to be tuned in, but the WC3 bugs me. My thing is about the attraction for the casual fan. I think the interest would be different if the DBacks won 110 games, but maybe not. Unless the mega-market teams like the Yankees, Mets, Cubs or Dodgers are in the WS, I don’t think the masses are really watching anyway. Baseball has mostly become a game with regional interest. It’s not like the old days where baseball drew big ratings. If a star is playing, I think you’d get national interest. If Ohtani was heathy and in the World Series people would be thrilled. He got the WBC a bunch of buzz. The problem is that Ohtani might be the only star that would drive the national attention. Now if Taylor Swift were dating a starting pitcher in the World Series, we’d really see some ratings (at least on the days he pitched).
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 26, 2023 18:54:24 GMT -5
My take on the star system (these guys were "stars" right?): ...There are other markets out there in Internet-land
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 26, 2023 19:28:12 GMT -5
So many factors get ignored from people.
The Os were never going to win in the playoffs, their rotation really had no one to fear, and top line pitching almost always holds lineups in check
The Braves and Dodgers did not have healthy rotations at all
The rangers, Astros, dbacks and Phillies all had nice 1-2 punches at the top of their rotation
The dbacks also had rookies find their stuff towards the end of the season Pfaadt was like the 21st ranked prospect, he has been a different maker
I don’t find anything outrageous, those teams that didn’t win have no one to complain about but themselves
No matter what, aiming to be just a wild card team will never be the path to long term success
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Post by incandenza on Oct 26, 2023 19:56:44 GMT -5
So many factors get ignored from people. The Os were never going to win in the playoffs, their rotation really had no one to fear, and top line pitching almost always holds lineups in check The Braves and Dodgers did not have healthy rotations at all The rangers, Astros, dbacks and Phillies all had nice 1-2 punches at the top of their rotation The dbacks also had rookies find their stuff towards the end of the season Pfaadt was like the 21st ranked prospect, he has been a different maker I don’t find anything outrageous, those teams that didn’t win have no one to complain about but themselves No matter what, aiming to be just a wild card team will never be the path to long term success I've been low on the Orioles all season, and was not the least bit surprised that they were quickly bounced from the playoffs. But how in the world can you say that anything "was never going to" happen, based on what we've seen in these playoffs? What could be more obvious than that anything can happen?
Of course you can construct narratives after the fact about why stuff happened. That doesn't mean any of it was inevitable. The Orioles could be in the World Series now and the Diamondbacks could have lost to the Brewers and not a person on earth would have said it should have gone the other way.
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 26, 2023 21:00:27 GMT -5
So many factors get ignored from people. The Os were never going to win in the playoffs, their rotation really had no one to fear, and top line pitching almost always holds lineups in check The Braves and Dodgers did not have healthy rotations at all The rangers, Astros, dbacks and Phillies all had nice 1-2 punches at the top of their rotation The dbacks also had rookies find their stuff towards the end of the season Pfaadt was like the 21st ranked prospect, he has been a different maker I don’t find anything outrageous, those teams that didn’t win have no one to complain about but themselves No matter what, aiming to be just a wild card team will never be the path to long term success I've been low on the Orioles all season, and was not the least bit surprised that they were quickly bounced from the playoffs. But how in the world can you say that anything "was never going to" happen, based on what we've seen in these playoffs? What could be more obvious than that anything can happen?
Of course you can construct narratives after the fact about why stuff happened. That doesn't mean any of it was inevitable. The Orioles could be in the World Series now and the Diamondbacks could have lost to the Brewers and not a person on earth would have said it should have gone the other way.
Just can’t recall a World Series winning team with no ace, or multiple two types The orioles rotation was so weak and became more glaring when Bautista went down so the rotation needed even more out of it
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Post by bluechip on Oct 26, 2023 21:06:53 GMT -5
I've been low on the Orioles all season, and was not the least bit surprised that they were quickly bounced from the playoffs. But how in the world can you say that anything "was never going to" happen, based on what we've seen in these playoffs? What could be more obvious than that anything can happen? Of course you can construct narratives after the fact about why stuff happened. That doesn't mean any of it was inevitable. The Orioles could be in the World Series now and the Diamondbacks could have lost to the Brewers and not a person on earth would have said it should have gone the other way.
Just can’t recall a World Series winning team with no ace, or multiple two types The orioles rotation was so weak and became more glaring when Bautista went down so the rotation needed even more out of it 2015 Royals?
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 26, 2023 21:13:22 GMT -5
Just can’t recall a World Series winning team with no ace, or multiple two types The orioles rotation was so weak and became more glaring when Bautista went down so the rotation needed even more out of it 2015 Royals? That’s one for sure, but any others in the last 30 years?
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Post by keninten on Oct 27, 2023 1:11:47 GMT -5
2000 yankees Pettite because he was 19-9? 2002 Angels maybe Jarrod Washburn 2008 Phillies Cole Hamels? 2011 Cardinals Chris Carpenter? 2013 Red Sox only if you count Lester. Lester was an ace in 2016. 2015 Royals 2021 Braves either Morton or Fried?
I might have too high a standard for an ace.
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 27, 2023 7:39:05 GMT -5
2000 yankees Pettite because he was 19-9? 2002 Angels maybe Jarrod Washburn 2008 Phillies Cole Hamels? 2011 Cardinals Chris Carpenter? 2013 Red Sox only if you count Lester. Lester was an ace in 2016. 2015 Royals 2021 Braves either Morton or Fried? I might have too high a standard for an ace. I more meant ACE or multiple 2s in general form, not in the sense WAR in a given season. As in 2013 we still had capable 1-2 starters in Lester and lackey even if they didn’t have the best regular season of their careers For instance carpenter, Lester, lackey, Hamels, Pettite and Fried are all 1-2 caliber SPs
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 27, 2023 8:14:51 GMT -5
2000 yankees Pettite because he was 19-9? Uhhh, I know his 2000 wasn't his best season, but that Roger Clemens fellow had a 131 ERA+ during the regular season and then tossed a 15K one-hitter in the ALCS against Seattle and then went eight shutout innings in the World Series and also threw a bat at the other team's best player. And then he (incorrectly) won the Cy Young Award the following year. Hard to think of a standard where he isn't an ace. 2002 Angels were a really good example though. Washburn was basically a #2, they were definitely one of those early adopters of using an okay rotation to get to an excellent bullpen. I wasn't always a Scioscia fan but he did a great job with that team.
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