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Post by klostrophobic on May 16, 2013 23:42:44 GMT -5
Mookie's short but perhaps we needn't be.
How real is this dude? Like Mookie, his batting average is small (.233), but so is the strike-out percentage (10.7). The walks and power are there to make up for his height but how real is the power? For a little man who hit zero homers in 251 AB last year, how much of the 6 in 116 is a fluke and how much is REAL GENUINE POWER?
If nothing else, dude is killing the strikezone. 32/16 BB/K. What. C'mon.
What sayeth you, the men who have seen Mookie in person? How nice is the power? How smooth is the plate discipline?
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Post by southernredsoxality on May 18, 2013 0:09:33 GMT -5
How does this thread not have a reply yet? C'mon people, all Mookie's done in May is hit 373/508/706 over 51 ab. He's also got plus speed and potentially plus defence. This is the small framed middle infielder in the organization everybody should be excited about. But if all that is not enough, his name is Mookie! Mookie! Mookie! Mookie! I can't stop saying it.
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Post by klostrophobic on May 18, 2013 0:44:47 GMT -5
50th ranked prospect. Terry Doyle and Kolbrin Vitek are ranked higher.
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Post by klostrophobic on May 18, 2013 0:50:10 GMT -5
3-5 with a double, a walk, a stolen base and an error (though not necessarily in that order) today. So it goes.
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Post by wskeleton76 on May 18, 2013 1:39:05 GMT -5
.157 .333 .286 .619 (April) .373 .508 .706 1.214 (May)
But his bb/k is consistently great.
19/9 (April) 14/7 (May)
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Post by redsox1534 on May 18, 2013 8:30:03 GMT -5
He was highly regarded in HS but deffanitly well regarded. Not sure how real the power is but im sure the plate discipline is real. Guys in the lower minors hit lots of HRs all the time an cant do it at higher levels. I think its way to early to no if the power is real only time will tell in couple years. Its also to early to predict what kind of player he will be in the future but some of the things hes doing are real an likely to stay apart of his game at any level he is playing at like the plate discipline and good defense. So theres plenty to be excited about with him.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2013 9:40:11 GMT -5
What does for real mean? Are you asking if he projects to hit 20-30 hrs in the majors or if he can consistently square the ball up and drive it to the gaps and hit for extra bases?
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Post by James Dunne on May 18, 2013 11:09:23 GMT -5
Mookie Betts is totally ending up an Oakland Athletic.
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Post by davidlaurilaqa on May 18, 2013 11:13:38 GMT -5
50th ranked prospect. Terry Doyle and Kolbrin Vitek are ranked higher. There are nowhere close to 50 better prospects in the system than Betts. I think most who follow the minor leagues will agree with that.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2013 11:31:33 GMT -5
The Mookie Betts love affair is astonishing to me. 5'9" 156lbs, 5th rd pick in low A. Having a nice 2 week stretch, let's all simmer down. I wonder if people would feel the same things if he were white and his name was Jim Smith.
I'm glad he's doing well and has talent but let not get all over his ranking as revisionists over a couple week stretch. I any of you complaining ha him in your preseason top 30 then fire away. If not simmer. The differences between 30 and 50 is very very fluid. Most guys are long shots and the preference is given to the guys who are closer.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 18, 2013 11:45:18 GMT -5
The Mookie Betts love affair is astonishing to me. 5'9" 156lbs, 5th rd pick in low A. Having a nice 2 week stretch, let's all simmer down. I wonder if people would feel the same things if he were white and his name was Jim Smith.Then we'd hear the same thing, plus "gamer". Also possible Dustin Pedroia comps.
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Post by honkbal on May 18, 2013 11:48:35 GMT -5
The Mookie Betts love affair is astonishing to me. 5'9" 156lbs, 5th rd pick in low A. Having a nice 2 week stretch, let's all simmer down. I wonder if people would feel the same things if he were white and his name was Jim Smith.Then we'd hear the same thing, plus "gamer". Also possible Dustin Pedroia comps. Beat me to it. Seriously. Short, white guy with plus plate discipline and some pop is basically SoxProspects porn.
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Post by bluechip on May 18, 2013 12:08:55 GMT -5
Mookie Betts is totally ending up an Oakland Athletic. Where he will be a solid starter at second base for four years before being traded for 4th/5th starter, who finally turns the corner and anchors the A's rotation until he departs via free agency.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2013 12:26:11 GMT -5
Are we still pretending Josh Reddick is missed? Or that he's a good MLB starter?
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Post by beasleyrockah on May 18, 2013 12:54:32 GMT -5
Marc Hutlet of Fangraphs ranked Betts the #15 prospect in the system entering the season. He was liked by many outlets even before this crazy season, this isn't just roster filler getting hot for two weeks.
I haven't read anyone here claiming he's going to emerge as a top 100 prospect or making any crazy MLB projections for him. Almost all of the intrigue has been based on his crazy stat line so far. It's a line that deserves attention even if it doesn't mean anything long term. Those are crazy numbers and as baseball fans/prospect followers you are allowed to enjoy them for what they are.
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Post by fdrnewdeal on May 18, 2013 12:55:16 GMT -5
50th ranked prospect. Terry Doyle and Kolbrin Vitek are ranked higher. There are nowhere close to 50 better prospects in the system than Betts. I think most who follow the minor leagues will agree with that. In support of this, Marc Hulet on Fangraphs had Betts at 15th. People liked Betts when we drafted him, he's a talent. I don't think ranking him 50th is a travesty or anything, I just think it reflects that there are 50+ interesting talents within the system. Going into 2013, concerns over Betts throwing arm (which forced him off of SS) coupled with his small size probably hurt his value in many peoples eyes. Those who liked him probably focused on the BB rate and K rate. It's not really that surprising that there would be some variance as to where people think he should rank... he's a super athletic prospect who has shown some very intriguing skills but also has some very real question marks (mainly his size); additionally, prior to this season he showed absolutely zero power.
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Post by Mike Andrews on May 18, 2013 14:17:59 GMT -5
50th ranked prospect. Terry Doyle and Kolbrin Vitek are ranked higher. There are nowhere close to 50 better prospects in the system than Betts. I think most who follow the minor leagues will agree with that. David, I really respect your work quite a bit and always enjoy bumping into you at the ballparks. However, it seems like several of your posts have been geared towards calling out the site for significantly under-rating certain prospects. From touching base over the years, I'm sure you know that we really appreciate the counter-opinions from the members of the SP community (yours included) and often take them into consideration when we adjust the prospect rankings - especially if those opinions are backed up by first-hand observations or statistical data. And I'll be the first to admit that prospect rankings are subjective and that we're not even close to being always right. Not even close. We could certainly be way off with Betts right now - we continue to have internal discussions about it after scouting him many times. But with all due respect, a substantial portion of the players that you've opined that the site was vastly under-ranking over the years have not panned out. Off the top of my head, I want to say that the list includes Jeff Corsaletti, Adam Mills, Zach Daeges, Jon Still, Derrik Gibson, Bubba Bell, Chris Hernandez, Pete Ruiz, Chris Turner, and Reid Engel. (Admittedly, Hernandez and Ruiz could still become solid relievers). If I'm wrong on some of those names, mea culpa. I'm not trying to call you out or start an argument, but you gotta see a pattern here.
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Post by sdiaz1 on May 18, 2013 14:44:08 GMT -5
Mookie is certainly an interesting prospect, who If I remember was viewed as someone in the top 150-200 in last years draft, and has shown an excellent approach that has led to him putting up an insane walk rate (21&%) and a very low k rate (10%). Additionally, it appears that luck has been against him so far as his BABIP of .252 is very low.
However with that said, I am not going to hop on his bandwagon until someone, somehere can give a satisfactorily explained reason why his ISO is five times higher than it was over 300 plate appearance last season. His whole stat line while fun to look at and intiguing, simply reeks of SSS.
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Post by fdrnewdeal on May 18, 2013 17:21:36 GMT -5
There are nowhere close to 50 better prospects in the system than Betts. I think most who follow the minor leagues will agree with that. David, I really respect your work quite a bit and always enjoy bumping into you at the ballparks. However, it seems like several of your posts have been geared towards calling out the site for significantly under-rating certain prospects. From touching base over the years, I'm sure you know that we really appreciate the counter-opinions from the members of the SP community (yours included) and often take them into consideration when we adjust the prospect rankings - especially if those opinions are backed up by first-hand observations or statistical data. And I'll be the first to admit that prospect rankings are subjective and that we're not even close to being always right. Not even close. We could certainly be way off with Betts right now - we continue to have internal discussions about it after scouting him many times. But with all due respect, a substantial portion of the players that you've opined that the site was vastly under-ranking over the years have not panned out. Off the top of my head, I want to say that the list includes Jeff Corsaletti, Adam Mills, Zach Daeges, Jon Still, Derrik Gibson, Bubba Bell, Chris Hernandez, Pete Ruiz, Chris Turner, and Reid Engel. (Admittedly, Hernandez and Ruiz could still become solid relievers). If I'm wrong on some of those names, mea culpa. I'm not trying to call you out or start an argument, but you gotta see a pattern here.
I don't think it serves folks a lot of good, getting too worked up about rankings of prospects relative to another, especially once you've already identified the clear cream of the crop. Michael Almanzar is probably a top 20 prospect at present time, 6 months ago, that would have been absurd. Prospects make such huge leaps in development over time, in such a non-linear fashion that it becomes really difficult to judge a player x against player y once you get past the top ten. Look at Kendrick Perkins... I suspect he wouldn't make any top 20's of sox prospect members, yet I bet there are tools that he's displayed that could shoot the guy way up the lists, if he made a leap with pitch recognition. The fact of the matter is that if someone is playing organized ball at an age appropriate level, they likely are insanely talented. Complimenting matters, is that even the best players in the majors have weaknesses. After identifying the elite (say a top ten in an org for example), I can't begin to imagine how difficult it is to determine whose strengths make a sleeper and who's weaknesses make a candidate for regression. I guess what I'm trying to say... this stuff is hard. It's pretty cool we as Sox fans lucky as hell for having a site like this that attempts to do so and is respectable enough to get recognition from the industry (fangraphs, BA, BP and so on)
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Post by sammo420 on May 18, 2013 17:41:49 GMT -5
Mookie stinks.
Wait...what?
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2013 18:20:54 GMT -5
If the rankings of prospects, across lists were close to the same from 15-50 within an organization then the rankings would be hogwash. Basically, they'd be copies of one another. Plus, no one, has seen these players enough personally to properly judge.
I brought up posters individual rankings for a reason.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 18, 2013 19:29:19 GMT -5
Look, rankings are ultimately just a way of roughly sorting these guys, and on top of that they're highly volatile. Worrying about where Betts is ranked is the wrong discussion and it doesn't really do much to enhance our understanding of the player.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 18, 2013 19:35:31 GMT -5
Look, rankings are ultimately just a way of roughly sorting these guys, and on top of that they're highly volatile. Worrying about where Betts is ranked is the wrong discussion and it doesn't really do much to enhance our understanding of the player. Exactly. This is why we ask all ranking discussion go in the meta forum - it adds nothing to the conversation. Looking for a larger sample size when a player is performing outside of their perceived ability before moving them is perfectly reasonable. With that - lets pull this conversation back to the player. Mookie has clearly put himself onto the radar. Its nice to have a reason to open the Greenville box again.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 18, 2013 20:05:59 GMT -5
But his bb/k is consistently great. 19/9 (April) 14/7 (May) That's crazy good, but paradoxically it kind of makes me question his projection, in the sense that he's clearly exploiting low-A pitchers who can't find the strike zone with a GPS and a sherpa. Is he still going to be able to hit the ball at the higher levels where he won't always be ahead in the count? Or is this the Che-Hsuan Lin experience all over again?
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Post by ikonos on May 18, 2013 23:37:49 GMT -5
He hit his 7th HR today. I dont remember Lin displaying that kind of power at any level. Mookie might just be gaining strength with professional training regimen and diet. The height and weight in the bios have been off frequently enough to ignore. Hope he continues to produce.
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