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Post by njsox on May 12, 2014 12:55:39 GMT -5
I said it earlier and I will say it again, I think Greenville is an aggressive placement for Ball based on the information we have on him and the results are looking like he is in a bit over his head. With that being said I was very happy with his results in his first 2 games. It looked like he was commanding the strike zone and had an 8/1 kk/bb ratio. Unfortunately the wheels came off in a big way in his third start. Being that I feel Greenville is a bit over his head I am really looking for flashes from him this year rather than consistent results. Let this kid get some innings in before we abandon all hope.
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Post by ikonos on May 12, 2014 21:47:47 GMT -5
Let me preface by saying I did not follow Ball much and dont know much about him. This is what I know. Sox scouting staff thought highly off him to draft at 7th slot. Almost all scouting pundits saw him as a top 10 pick. Even with all his not being ready for the season, Sox think highly of him by placing him in Greenville instead of XST/Lowell etc. What that tells me is that folks that know their stuff think he is good enough to be where he is. Can he still be a bust? absolutely possible. Can he be worthy of where he was selected? absolutely possible. So instead of fighting on small samples, "are we there yet" discussions, we all know the journey is long for him so lets just sit and enjoy the ride.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 14, 2014 13:04:21 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that it's not wrong to question this pick by the Sox but it would be very wrong to write off Trey Ball.
The Sox said they were going for a home run with the Ball pick. I would have thought that Meadows would have been a better bet to develop into an impact player. Ball seems like quite a project. And the Sox might very well strike out with him as there's a real shot that he never turns into anything more than a relief arm. But the Sox also saw ace potential in Ball, which is something the minor league system lacks.
It's going to be a long ride requiring patience with Ball and I don't think it's wrong to question the Sox swinging for the fences with Ball when they had other options. However we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed and hope he turns into an Owens with better stuff and control.
It's way, way too early to give up on this kid. I just hope that during that rare (hopefully) time the Sox pick so high up in the draft they got something worthwhile for their troubles. Last time they picked that high they came away with a very strong player in Trot Nixon. If Ball's career turns out as well as Nixon's did, then I'll be pretty happy with the pick - assuming that Meadows doesn't turn into a superstar.
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Post by oilcansman on May 14, 2014 13:09:40 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that it's not wrong to question this pick by the Sox but it would be very wrong to write off Trey Ball. The Sox said they were going for a home run with the Ball pick. I would have thought that Meadows would have been a better bet to develop into an impact player. Ball seems like quite a project. And the Sox might very well strike out with him as there's a real shot that he never turns into anything more than a relief arm. But the Sox also saw ace potential in Ball, which is something the minor league system lacks. It's going to be a long ride requiring patience with Ball and I don't think it's wrong to question the Sox swinging for the fences with Ball when they had other options. However we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed and hope he turns into an Owens with better stuff and control. It's way, way too early to give up on this kid. I just hope that during that rare (hopefully) time the Sox pick so high up in the draft they got something worthwhile for their troubles. Last time they picked that high they came away with a very strong player in Trot Nixon. If Ball's career turns out as well as Nixon's did, then I'll be pretty happy with the pick - assuming that Meadows doesn't turn into a superstar. Excellent, reasoned post. I'm very down on Ball but I don't blame the Sox. The baseball draft is incredibly dicey and the Sox have done a great job in general. But now and again an 18 year old isn't what you think he is. The problem with this Board, although I love the sight, is the mind numbing pro-Sox bias. It's so unnecessary. This kid looks like a MAJOR project, which is not what top 10 picks are supposed to be. I've read stuff on him and he really seems like a good kid. Fortunately, he's wealthy. But in exchange for all that dough comes cold blooded analysis. He's now a pro. If this kid was a Yankee prospect, everyone here would be laughing.
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Post by jimed14 on May 14, 2014 13:17:42 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that it's not wrong to question this pick by the Sox but it would be very wrong to write off Trey Ball. The Sox said they were going for a home run with the Ball pick. I would have thought that Meadows would have been a better bet to develop into an impact player. Ball seems like quite a project. And the Sox might very well strike out with him as there's a real shot that he never turns into anything more than a relief arm. But the Sox also saw ace potential in Ball, which is something the minor league system lacks. It's going to be a long ride requiring patience with Ball and I don't think it's wrong to question the Sox swinging for the fences with Ball when they had other options. However we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed and hope he turns into an Owens with better stuff and control. It's way, way too early to give up on this kid. I just hope that during that rare (hopefully) time the Sox pick so high up in the draft they got something worthwhile for their troubles. Last time they picked that high they came away with a very strong player in Trot Nixon. If Ball's career turns out as well as Nixon's did, then I'll be pretty happy with the pick - assuming that Meadows doesn't turn into a superstar. Excellent, reasoned post. I'm very down on Ball but I don't blame the Sox. The baseball draft is incredibly dicey and the Sox have done a great job in general. But now and again an 18 year old isn't what you think he is. The problem with this Board, although I love the sight, is the mind numbing pro-Sox bias. It's so unnecessary. This kid looks like a MAJOR project, which is not what top 10 picks are supposed to be. I've read stuff on him and he really seems like a good kid. Fortunately, he's wealthy. But in exchange for all that dough comes cold blooded analysis. He's now a pro. If this kid was a Yankee prospect, everyone here would be laughing. I don't care what system he's in. It's way too early to judge. We knew how much of a project he was. Nothing has changed.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 14, 2014 13:27:33 GMT -5
Excellent, reasoned post. I'm very down on Ball but I don't blame the Sox. The baseball draft is incredibly dicey and the Sox have done a great job in general. But now and again an 18 year old isn't what you think he is. The problem with this Board, although I love the sight, is the mind numbing pro-Sox bias. It's so unnecessary. This kid looks like a MAJOR project, which is not what top 10 picks are supposed to be. I've read stuff on him and he really seems like a good kid. Fortunately, he's wealthy. But in exchange for all that dough comes cold blooded analysis. He's now a pro. If this kid was a Yankee prospect, everyone here would be laughing. I don't care what system he's in. It's way too early to judge. We knew how much of a project he was. Nothing has changed. So then the question becomes: When do you take on a project? With the 7th pick? If you have a later pick in the draft and one's available? Do you take more of a sure thing if you pick #7 and less of a project? Somebody more likely to reach their ceiling and you hope it's the highest ceiling you can find with that spot in the draft?
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Post by jimed14 on May 14, 2014 13:31:43 GMT -5
I don't care what system he's in. It's way too early to judge. We knew how much of a project he was. Nothing has changed. So then the question becomes: When do you take on a project? With the 7th pick? If you have a later pick in the draft and one's available? Do you take more of a sure thing if you pick #7 and less of a project? Somebody more likely to reach their ceiling and you hope it's the highest ceiling you can find with that spot in the draft? The Red Sox said they wanted the highest ceiling at 7. They wanted a risky pick. That's exactly what they picked. If it doesn't work out, so what? They don't always do. Still, it's sooooooo early to even be talking about a 19 year old who wasn't even a full time pitcher a year ago. There was a lot of practice time that he didn't dedicate to pitching.
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Post by amfox1 on May 14, 2014 14:46:18 GMT -5
Ball placed on the DL.
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Post by Guidas on May 14, 2014 15:34:33 GMT -5
Strep throat is the report.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 14, 2014 15:44:06 GMT -5
So then the question becomes: When do you take on a project? With the 7th pick? If you have a later pick in the draft and one's available? Do you take more of a sure thing if you pick #7 and less of a project? Somebody more likely to reach their ceiling and you hope it's the highest ceiling you can find with that spot in the draft? The Red Sox said they wanted the highest ceiling at 7. They wanted a risky pick. That's exactly what they picked. If it doesn't work out, so what? They don't always do. Still, it's sooooooo early to even be talking about a 19 year old who wasn't even a full time pitcher a year ago. There was a lot of practice time that he didn't dedicate to pitching. I think it's a pretty big deal if you're drafting that high up and your pick doesn't hit. Doesn't mean that the draft is a disaster necessarily of course, but picking that high, you should come up with something pretty good. It's less of a disappointment if you get bad results picking 26th. Usually the elite talent is off the board by then anyways so you're hoping to catch a huge break - get a talent that is injured but could come back as good as ever, etc..
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Post by okin15 on May 14, 2014 15:55:22 GMT -5
Strep throat is the report. please tell me you're serious. that's a lot better than something like "forearm tightness" (obv). Get some 'cilin and rest and then back on the horse kid.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 14, 2014 17:56:03 GMT -5
The Red Sox said they wanted the highest ceiling at 7. They wanted a risky pick. That's exactly what they picked. If it doesn't work out, so what? They don't always do. Still, it's sooooooo early to even be talking about a 19 year old who wasn't even a full time pitcher a year ago. There was a lot of practice time that he didn't dedicate to pitching. I think it's a pretty big deal if you're drafting that high up and your pick doesn't hit. Doesn't mean that the draft is a disaster necessarily of course, but picking that high, you should come up with something pretty good. It's less of a disappointment if you get bad results picking 26th. Usually the elite talent is off the board by then anyways so you're hoping to catch a huge break - get a talent that is injured but could come back as good as ever, etc.. That was a crappy draft class, though
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Post by aussiesox on May 15, 2014 2:51:19 GMT -5
Madison Bumgarner through his first 3 starts in full season ball, pitched 11.2innings, gave up 15 hits, 10 earned runs, walking 3 and striking out 12... his GB/FB/LD rates were almost identical to Trey's (44/42/13 vs 42/42/15)... I'm not saying he's Madison Bumgarner, just that these 3 starts aren't exactly the be all and end all for a kid.
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Post by arzjake on May 27, 2014 19:25:16 GMT -5
Should Ball revert back to CF? Stats are not good.... Is this going to be the crap we read after every one of his bad starts? The crap is not the player, its the picking another P at #7. The Sox have enough Pitching depth in the minor League system and we all now who they are. Where the organization needs depth is OF prospects who can hit for power. I understand the MLB draft is not an exact science nor where a player is picked determines how good he will be (see MTrout). At 7 the pick should have been AMeadows in my book, thats all..
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Post by quintanariffic on May 27, 2014 20:29:25 GMT -5
Is this going to be the crap we read after every one of his bad starts? The crap is not the player, its the picking another P at #7. The Sox have enough Pitching depth in the minor League system and we all now who they are. Where the organization needs depth is OF prospects who can hit for power. I understand the MLB draft is not an exact science nor where a player is picked determines how good he will be (see MTrout). At 7 the pick should have been AMeadows in my book, thats all.. I see, so the Sox should start drafting for perceived needs at the ml or ML levels? Great advice. Shocked you have time to post here given what surely must be a busy day in the front office of a major league team.
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Post by okin15 on May 27, 2014 22:46:57 GMT -5
Hey hey hey, chill there y'all. Quin is right that we can't draft based on need. On the other hand, Many at the time thought Meadows was better (certainly if you had asked people 2 weeks before the draft). On the other hand, if you were drafting for need, you'd really want pitching. It's super expensive at the MLB level, and there's never enough, especially at the top top level (no. 1/ace/top 2 types). Ball's the only one in the system who's really supposed to have that ceiling, barring a talent/stuff break-through from another guy. Of course, as you might argue, and I have argued, that ceiling might not be enough, given his rawness. Best to go with the best overall talent, and I'll agree with you that'd have been Meadows. Hind sight, she's a witch.
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Post by jimed14 on May 28, 2014 6:49:56 GMT -5
You have to wait at least 4 years before you can even begin to figure out who was "right". And even then, it's hard to use hindsight because of so many different things like whether they had impossible to predict health issues.
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Post by oilcansman on May 29, 2014 18:35:06 GMT -5
2/3rds of an inning tonight and pulled after giving up 1 run and throwing an astonishing 41 pitches. Sox should send kid to extended spring training and have him spend year in Gulf Coast League. Still early, but Cherington also at least somewhere in the back of his mind must begin thinking about a position switch after this year if things don't improve. Maybe a reverse Ron Mahay?
Before I get scolded by some for "scouting" the box score and believe this is all part of his natural development, it seems that Ball is really over his head pitching professionally.
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Trey Ball
May 29, 2014 18:39:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by kman22 on May 29, 2014 18:39:13 GMT -5
2/3rds of an inning tonight and pulled after giving up 1 run and throwing an astonishing 41 pitches. Sox should send kid to extended spring training and have him spend year in Gulf Coast League. Still early, but Cherington also at least somewhere in the back of his mind must begin thinking about a position switch after this year if things don't improve. Maybe a reverse Ron Mahay? Before I get scolded by some for "scouting" the box score and believe this is all part of his natural development, it seems that Ball is really over his head pitching professionally. Wasn't his last start pretty promising....
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Post by jmei on May 29, 2014 19:19:05 GMT -5
Here's Ball's play-by-play from this latest outing:
Evan Van Hoosier singles on a fly ball to left fielder Kendrick Perkins. (on a 3-2 count) Nick Vickerson reaches on a fielder's choice, fielded by shortstop Jimmy Rider. Evan Van Hoosier to 2nd. (on a 2-2 count) Joe Jackson singles on a line drive to right fielder Forrestt Allday. Evan Van Hoosier to 3rd. Nick Vickerson to 2nd. (on a 3-2 count) Nomar Mazara called out on strikes. (on an 0-2 count) Ryan Cordell walks. Evan Van Hoosier scores. Nick Vickerson to 3rd. Joe Jackson to 2nd. (on a 3-2 count) Ronald Guzman flies out to center fielder Manuel Margot. (on a 3-2 count) Pitching Change: Jacob Dahlstrand replaces Trey Ball.
...so out of six batters faced, he struck out one, walked one, and gave up four balls in play (one line drive, two fly balls, and a ground ball) that resulted in two singles, a fly ball out, and an error on a ground ball.
The Red Sox will automatically pull guys if they reach a certain pitch limit within any one inning in order to protect guys from stress/fatigue-related injury. That's what happened here. Ball didn't pitch well, but he didn't pitch terribly, either. If any prospect gave up that sequence but didn't get pulled, would we even bat an eye?
ADD: I was curious how he racked up such a high pitch count while facing only six batters. I added the pitch count when the plate appearance ended to the above game log. Here's his breakdown:
15 balls 17 foul balls 4 called strikes 1 swinging strike 4 balls in play Total: 15 balls (36.6%), 26 strikes (63.4%)
The fact that he could only get one swinging strike is a red flag, but it wasn't like he just had zero control and was walking everyone. A 63.4% strike rate is pretty good, actually. Just so happened that he couldn't get a swing-and-miss and got to a full count to four out of six batters faced.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 29, 2014 22:00:06 GMT -5
17 foul balls in six batters is kind of nuts. That's just fluky as hell.
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Post by stevedillard on May 30, 2014 6:13:43 GMT -5
Scouting the box score, his stuff doesn't seem to miss a lot of bats, which relates to my original question about his "stuff" and any plus pitches. I would think command is one thing, but the stuff to miss bats is quite another. He's now at 27 pro innings with 45 hits (leaving aside walks), and 18 ks and a 6k/9.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 30, 2014 14:33:17 GMT -5
Beb (Leland Grove) Trey Ball seems lost thus far. Any chance the Sox convert him back to a hitter if he keeps this up over the coming year?
Klaw (2:41 PM)
I see these questions and I want to believe they're just trolls, but I know there are actually fans whose myopia extends to giving up on a teenaged player ten months after he signed.
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Post by amfox1 on May 30, 2014 14:33:48 GMT -5
Obviously Keith has been reading this thread.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 30, 2014 15:10:37 GMT -5
LOL, I was myopic fan posting.
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