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Post by jmei on Sept 12, 2013 9:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 12, 2013 11:37:27 GMT -5
Nice blab by Douber there for sure. Might be talking himself out of any PO s5 man spot also, especially if Morales continues throwing like he was last night vs TB and can do it over 2IP stints (or more) where Morales was sitting at 94-96mph.
Would rather see Morales as a 1-2IP lefty over Doubront in the pen any day if he's healthy and back. Morales threw a couple of his curveballs that had the nasty bite from last year. If he is there now? Doubront is doing himself -0- favors speaking like that with better choices than himself to start 4 games.
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 12, 2013 18:46:43 GMT -5
Morales and Doubront have the same basic problem - inconsistency. But in Morales' case, the good streaks are just too rare and too short. Sure, if you only remember his peak performances, you can easily like him. But then you could just as easily love Drake Britton...
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Post by larrycook on Sept 13, 2013 7:41:11 GMT -5
Morales and Doubront have the same basic problem - inconsistency. I agree. However for the Colorado series,I say we start Workman and Doubrount for those two games.With the two off days,it gives the other starters some much needed extra rest. Let's see how Doubrount responds, if he has control problems or gets lit up, we can bring in Morales or Webster.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 13, 2013 14:49:13 GMT -5
With all of the off days this team has down the stretch, the abstract idea of getting the starters rest is probably less important than lining them up for the postseason. Lackey, Lester, and Buchholz are going to get 3 more starts each, and can do so with plenty of rest just by inserting Doubront once.
Schedule coming up: NYY starters have been announced, others just spitballing. 9/13, NYY: Lackey 9/14, NYY: Lester 9/15, NYY: Buchholz 9/16, off 9/17, BAL: Doubront (10dr) 9/18, BAL: Dempster (6dr) 9/19, BAL: Peavy (6dr) 9/20, TOR: Lackey (6dr) 9/21, TOR: Lester (6dr) 9/22, TOR: Buchholz (6dr) 9/23, off 9/24, COL: Dempster (5dr) or Doubront (6dr) 9/25, COL: Peavy (5dr) 9/26, off 9/27, BAL: Lackey (6dr) 9/28, BAL: Lester (6dr) 9/29, BAL: Buchholz (6dr) 9/30 10/1 10/2 10/3 10/4, ALDS gm 1: Lester (5dr) 10/5, gm 2: Buchholz (5dr) 10/6 10/7, gm 3: Lackey (8dr) 10/8, gm 4: Peavy (11 dr) 10/9 10/10, gm 5: Lester (5dr)
So you're literally getting guys an extra day of rest for the rest of the season after the Yankees series, and most at least two days.
As for who can make spot starts, if Workman is a possibility for the playoff bullpen, starting him doesn't make any sense. Call up Wright to start if you want a spot starter.
The only thing that bugs me is keeping Lackey and Peavy on better rest schedules, so maybe that last week gets tweaked.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 14, 2013 12:07:56 GMT -5
Doubront will reportedly return during the Blue Jays series.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 14, 2013 14:08:15 GMT -5
Team shouldn't give too much rest to anyone. Don't want to screw with the feel and timing of a team on a roll.
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Post by jchang on Sept 14, 2013 14:39:19 GMT -5
I think the rotation members are clear, and we can work out the sequence soon. So it might be of greater interest to see who should be the relievers in the remaining games. Of course Lester pitches 8 today, so we will only get to see one RP, and since there is not a humor font, I add
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 17, 2013 19:56:30 GMT -5
Farrell basically said clay, ester and Lackey were top 3 as one will pitch game 1
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 18, 2013 10:29:51 GMT -5
Farrell basically said clay, ester and Lackey were top 3 as one will pitch game 1 Also said that the rotation I have for that final series is how it is going to fall. I know they could bring Buchholz back on regular rest for game one, but would they?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 18, 2013 16:01:05 GMT -5
Nice blab by Douber there for sure. Might be talking himself out of any PO s5 man spot also, especially if Morales continues throwing like he was last night vs TB and can do it over 2IP stints (or more) where Morales was sitting at 94-96mph. Would rather see Morales as a 1-2IP lefty over Doubront in the pen any day if he's healthy and back. Morales threw a couple of his curveballs that had the nasty bite from last year. If he is there now? Doubront is doing himself -0- favors speaking like that with better choices than himself to start 4 games. There's plenty of room on the post-season roster for both Doubront and Morales. What Doubront is saying is that he's not a good choice as a situational reliever. However, he is absolutely the guy you want on the roster to pitch multiple innings in some kind of emergency (starter ejected, hurt, or woefully ineffective early). And in a blowout, he could have plenty of time to warm up and pitch the last few innings and save the short relievers. Ditto for an extra-inning game where you've already used most of the pen in situational matchups. The bottom line is that you don't leave one of your best pitchers off the roster just because there's no obvious role for him. You stop and think about all the ways he might indeed be useful. It's the Bill James dictum again: focus on what a player can do, not what he can't.
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Post by jmei on Sept 18, 2013 16:14:34 GMT -5
Farrell said today that if the pitchers who are bumped from the rotation are going to be on the postseason roster as relievers, he'd like them to get a few innings in relief in the last couple games of the season. So that's something to watch for down the stretch-- whether Doubront or Dempster come on in relief.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2013 16:31:12 GMT -5
Farrell basically said clay, ester and Lackey were top 3 as one will pitch game 1 Also said that the rotation I have for that final series is how it is going to fall. I know they could bring Buchholz back on regular rest for game one, but would they? Would, Should or Will? Yes they would. They should if they feel he could perform and physically hold up as the Ace through the entire playoffs, keeping in mind transitions between series and the possibility of pitching games 1 4 and 7 in a series. They probably will have Lester set up to pitch game 1 based on how he's been and their ability to keep him fresh. I realize a lot of Lester's value comes from him pitching every time out, but he's shown to be best with rest.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 18, 2013 17:05:18 GMT -5
My prediction:
1. Lester 2. Buchholz day off 3. Lackey 4. Peavy (if needed) day off 5. Lester + all hands minus Peavy (if needed).
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2013 17:12:02 GMT -5
More interesting may be, if they had the chance to go back to Lester, or whoever in a 7 game series for 3 starts 1-4-7, would they do tht instead of pitching Peavy in game 4? I don't know how I feel. I think it's an it depends based on how good a groove Lester or Clay are in and how Peavy pitched in his recent starts.
Point is this staff if deep and talented enough that they shouldn't have to ride anyone into the ground.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 18, 2013 20:03:05 GMT -5
Farrell said today that if the pitchers who are bumped from the rotation are going to be on the postseason roster as relievers, he'd like them to get a few innings in relief in the last couple games of the season. So that's something to watch for down the stretch-- whether Doubront or Dempster come on in relief. Bet you'd probably see Wright start that first Colorado game then.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 18, 2013 23:20:40 GMT -5
With the Rotation probably being Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Peavy there will be some decisions made in the pen. My vote probably goes something like this:
Koji Breslow Tazawa Workman Dempster Doubront Morales Britton/Webster ( depending on the next few appearances )
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 18, 2013 23:25:22 GMT -5
They won't carry an eight-man bullpen. They'll go seven and carry five bench players. There's no reason for eight relievers in a five-game set that you enter with a completely rested 'pen and have no more than two games in a row.
1. Ortiz 2. Salty 3. Ross 4. Napoli 5. Pedroia 6. Drew 7. WMB 8. Gomes 9. Nava 10. Ellsbury 11. Victorino 12. Carp 13. Berry (or maybe Bradley? I think they go pinch runner over defensive replacement, but could depend on health of Ells and Vic.) 14. Bogaerts/McDonald
15. Lester 16. Buchholz 17. Lackey 18. Peavy
19. Uehara 20. Tazawa 21. Breslow 22. Dempster 23. Doubront 24. Workman 25. Morales/Britton
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 18, 2013 23:28:28 GMT -5
You are probably right Chris which means all we have to do is cut those last 2 guys which is not a big loss. I don't think we have a pen problem. I think we are fine.
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Post by jmei on Sept 19, 2013 0:26:29 GMT -5
Minor nit-pick: I know Xander hasn't been playing as much as we'd all like, but there's just about zero chance he sits in favor of John McDonald on the postseason roster. McDonald hasn't been anything but a defensive replacement in blowouts, while Xander has gotten semi-regular playing time at both SS and 3B the last few weeks. Also: I think there's a chance that only one of Doubront/Dempster makes the playoff roster (and you'd hope it was Doubront). There's not much reason to have more than one long-man who takes a while to warm up, especially since guys like Workman and Morales can also presumably give decent bulk innings. Dempster is a righty, which helps since the pen is otherwise very lefty-heavy, but I'm not sure he's good enough even in relief to be worth making the roster over a guy like Britton (caveat: Britton hasn't pitched much lately, and maybe the coaching staff/FO has soured on him).
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Post by sbones13 on Sept 19, 2013 9:30:29 GMT -5
Farrell said today that if the pitchers who are bumped from the rotation are going to be on the postseason roster as relievers, he'd like them to get a few innings in relief in the last couple games of the season. So that's something to watch for down the stretch-- whether Doubront or Dempster come on in relief. Bet you'd probably see Wright start that first Colorado game then. I would sure hope so. It seems insane to start Dempster or Doubront again this season. It's over. Their only shot is to relieve in the post season. So why is Doubront making simulated starts, or is Dempster pitching two nights ago. They had a good two weeks to at least get them close to being prepared, and one of them is half over. The pen has Koji and Breslow right now. Everything else is up in the air. If they had Foulke-Timlin-Embree-Myers then fine, who cares. But they don't...
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Post by Guidas on Sept 19, 2013 10:12:16 GMT -5
Only argument for Dempster making the playoff roster over Doubront I can come up with - barring injury - is that Dempster has been fairly solid first time through line-ups this year where as Doubront seems to need to "get through" the 1st then settles down, for the most part.
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Post by okin15 on Sept 19, 2013 10:31:09 GMT -5
We could really use a righty we can trust in the 'pen. I'm hoping Demps is that guy, cause we're pretty short after Koji.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 19, 2013 10:31:46 GMT -5
They won't carry an eight-man bullpen. They'll go seven and carry five bench players. There's no reason for eight relievers in a five-game set that you enter with a completely rested 'pen and have no more than two games in a row. 1. Ortiz 2. Salty 3. Ross 4. Napoli 5. Pedroia 6. Drew 7. WMB 8. Gomes 9. Nava 10. Ellsbury 11. Victorino 12. Carp 13. Berry (or maybe Bradley? I think they go pinch runner over defensive replacement, but could depend on health of Ells and Vic.) 14. Bogaerts/McDonald 15. Lester 16. Buchholz 17. Lackey 18. Peavy 19. Uehara 20. Tazawa 21. Breslow 22. Dempster 23. Doubront 24. Workman 25. Morales/Britton I think they carry Berry, and if Ellsbury has a setback they'll activate Bradley. Losing Berry for the next series is a risk I think they'll be willing to take. I have Morales behind Britton, and I might have him behind Thornton. When Morales has been healthy enough to pitch this year, he's looked positively awful. One frustrating thing about Morales is that his stuff doesn't seem to play up in the bullpen. He showed flashes last season in the rotation, and he seems like the sort who would shine with a streamlined repertoire and not having to worry about pacing himself, but it's never really worked out that way. I wonder if it takes him too long to get loose to really be effective in the pen. I also wonder if he's just not as good as I thought.
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Post by jmei on Sept 19, 2013 10:42:32 GMT -5
I have Morales behind Britton, and I might have him behind Thornton. When Morales has been healthy enough to pitch this year, he's looked positively awful. One frustrating thing about Morales is that his stuff doesn't seem to play up in the bullpen. He showed flashes last season in the rotation, and he seems like the sort who would shine with a streamlined repertoire and not having to worry about pacing himself, but it's never really worked out that way. I wonder if it takes him too long to get loose to really be effective in the pen. I also wonder if he's just not as good as I thought. Here's Morales' potential saving grace: Franklin Morales, versus lefties, 2013: 9.35 K/9, 2.08 BB/9, 2.36 FIP, 2.83 xFIP (albeit in a small 8.2 IP sample) Franklin Morales, versus lefties, career: 8.52 K/9, 3.26 BB/9, 3.60 FIP, 3.94 xFIP That said, both Britton and Thornton have pretty big splits and are effective versus lefties but much less so against righties, and there's a limit to how many LOOGY types you can have in the bullpen.
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