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Post by pedey on Nov 5, 2013 18:48:03 GMT -5
Although Boston's bullpen was great this year, it wouldn't be bad to discuss next year's bullpen. Every year, it seems like a bullpen arm flames out or someone gets hurt, so it's nice to have depth.
Current Bullpen Arms on the 40-man: 1) Bailey (Non-tender Candidate) 2) Breslow 3) Britton (Starter in the minor leagues) 4) De La Rosa (Starter in the minor leagues) 5) Miller 6) Morales 7) Tazawa 8) Uehara 9) Villareal (DFA Candidate) 10) Alex Wilson 11) Workman (Also a starter) There are also plenty of minor league arms, both starters and relievers, that are not yet on the 40-man.
Most teams have 7 or 8 relievers in the bullpen. What moves would be in the Sox's best interest to improve the bullpen with enough depth for 2014 and beyond?
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Post by jmei on Nov 5, 2013 19:24:10 GMT -5
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Post by mjammz on Nov 5, 2013 19:57:44 GMT -5
I think we see the Red Sox put together a package and make another trade for a high end bullpen arm. The guy I have mentioned is Luke Hochevar, but I think there are plenty of guys available they could target. They need a right handed reliever with power stuff that they can use in high leverage middle relief innings. Any other names?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 5, 2013 20:01:04 GMT -5
No more trading for relievers, please.
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Post by slam761 on Nov 5, 2013 20:16:21 GMT -5
I'm mostly against trading for more relievers, but Hochevar seems like he'd be a good addition who probably wouldn't cost too much given his salary and impending free agency.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,583
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Post by radiohix on Nov 5, 2013 20:18:40 GMT -5
I'll take my chances and sign someone like Jesse Crain
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Post by pedey on Nov 5, 2013 20:28:39 GMT -5
No more trading for relievers, please. Agreed. The Sox have had terrible success in trading for relievers in Melancon, Bailey, and Hanrahan. Otherwise, they'd still have Lowrie, Reddick, Alcantara, and Pimentel. BTW, Pimentel had a cup of coffee in the majors with Pittsburgh and did well. Closers commonly are not traded for. They are usually made internally by failed starters (Papelbon) or minor league relievers (Danny Farquhar), or sometimes a FA signing (Uehara). Has anyone here read Moneyball? I'd sign a set-up man or a middle reliever and let the remaining spots to be won in spring training by young guys.
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Post by jmei on Nov 5, 2013 21:30:25 GMT -5
Names I'm tentatively keeping an eye on: Edward Mujica Jesse Crain Ryan Madson Joe Smith Jose Veras Francisco Rodriguez Jamey Wright Joel Hanrahan Joba Chamberlain (don't laugh, he was quite good as recently as 2012) Kameron Loe (minor league deal)
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Post by Kevin Pereira on Nov 5, 2013 22:16:54 GMT -5
Wasn't Hinojosa projected to be in Pawtucket's bullpen after Boston signed him? Thought I read that over at Baseball America. Anyways, I agree with your list of guys to keep an eye out for, jmei. I would love to see Boston sign Ryan Madson. I've wanted him since he was a free agent two seasons ago. I like low risks, potentially high reward signings. I'm just afraid somebody (Tigers, Yankees, or Dodgers) will offer Madson a major-league deal with a relatively high cash amount. If the Red Sox sign him, I want it to be on a minor-league deal.
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Post by glassox on Nov 5, 2013 22:53:54 GMT -5
I wonder what Jose Veras will get. If its less than the option that the tigers didn't pick up then i would consider him. I think he would be strong in the 7th and 8th.
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Post by rismith on Nov 6, 2013 8:44:54 GMT -5
Don't forget Chris Martin. I would package Alex Wilson with some of our other AAAA type guys and try to get a lower level guy with upside. All Martin does is get guys out. All year plus winter ball so far....he just seems like a Breslow type where maybe he isn't the "best prospect" but he comes in and simply becomes a good middle guy. Just a thought...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 6, 2013 18:43:05 GMT -5
Don't forget Chris Martin. I would package Alex Wilson with some of our other AAAA type guys and try to get a lower level guy with upside. All Martin does is get guys out. All year plus winter ball so far....he just seems like a Breslow type where maybe he isn't the "best prospect" but he comes in and simply becomes a good middle guy. Just a thought... Why would Alex Wilson, who probably wouldn't break camp with the Red Sox right now if they didn't even go out and get anyone (which they're probably going to do), plus some "other AAAA type guys" bring back anything at all of value in a trade? I'm not trying to be mean here, and this is to everyone, not just rismith, but guys, you don't just put together a role 4 player and a bunch of 3's in a package and get a 6 in return.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 6, 2013 20:45:33 GMT -5
But it works on play station
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 13, 2013 10:10:26 GMT -5
Thoughts on Jesse Crain? Shoulder injuries could be devastating, but if we feel he is healthy I think he should be the top target.
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Post by ramireja on Nov 13, 2013 10:29:08 GMT -5
Crain isn't a bad option if he is considered healthy, but my favorite target might be Joe Smith. Fairly under the radar, quite consistent, and shouldn't cost a king's ransom.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 13, 2013 10:34:20 GMT -5
Depending on the other moves they make (say $20M for a C & 1B, trade Peavy or Dempster), the Sox could have quite a lot of budget left to spend on the 'pen, at least enough to add two quality arms.
I still want to sell high on Miller, if possible, and go with Breslow and Morales/Britton, depending if Morales is actually healthy. I think Britton is a reliever full time from now on.
I'm comfortable with Workman as the 6th starter going into camp and moving him to the bullpen as necessary:
Uehara, Tazawa, FA, FA, Breslow, Morales/Britton, Workman/Wilson/etc
I don't see the Sox moving any of their other young arms to the bullpen to begin the year - Pawtucket's rotation could be crowded, barring trades, but between injury, piggyback starts and potentially starting Barnes at AA, it should be fine.
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Post by anthonyws2013 on Nov 13, 2013 10:56:15 GMT -5
I would bring in 1 high leverage reliever in late December/ January after all the smoke clears. This may be the strongest group of elite relievers hitting the open market in a long time and not everyone is going to need all of these guys. I really like Jesse Crain whose value may be down because of his shoulder injury but is an outstanding strikeout pitcher. Jose Veras is another good option who won't necessarily break the bank and want the closer job. Joe Smith is the last one that I'm looking at, extremely reliable late inning guy who is going under the radar. Any of those three shouldn't be more then 4 million a year and produce big outs late in games for the Red Sox in 2014
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 14, 2013 19:39:48 GMT -5
What do you expect to get back for Miller?
Selling high is nice in theory but what's Millers true value in the market and does that exceed what he can bring to a winning club. The guy was damn good and we are talking about a guy with all the talent in the world so there's little reason to think it's not sustainable. However he's had enough trouble and not enough success that I don't see how the value he brings in exceeds the value he provides on the field.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 14, 2013 20:06:39 GMT -5
I agree on Miller. He gives lefties fits and is the best LH option they have vs them by far.
Another guy who can handle the 6-8th inning is FA Matty Albers, a FA who might not be able to find that 3-4m payday as a FA and settle for less and has been reliable the last 2-3 years.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 14, 2013 22:20:06 GMT -5
The guy was damn good and we are talking about a guy with all the talent in the world so there's little reason to think it's not sustainable. However he's had enough trouble and not enough success that I don't see how the value he brings in exceeds the value he provides on the field. My position is that most reliever results are highly variable, Miller in particular has trouble sustaining success historically and pitched well last year but only for a stretch of 30 innings, and maybe the Sox can parlay his bit of success into a return from a team who is willing to believe, which I am not. He's also more of a 1 or 2-out guy, which I think limits bullpen utility. I think there are some good options in free agency for just cash, so even a moderate return (I prefer not to delve into that kind of speculation) would leave the Sox ahead. Miller also happens to be the only Sox player I've ever booed in person, so all things being equal I'd prefer another reliever in his place.
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Post by amfox1 on Dec 5, 2013 12:21:07 GMT -5
Updated as of 12/5 noon:
Current Potential Bullpen Arms on the 40-man (in alphabetical order):
1) Badenhop 2) Breslow 3) Britton (Reliever in Pawtucket) 4) De La Rosa (Starter in Pawtucket) 5) Miller 6) Morales 7) Mujica 8) Tazawa 9) Uehara 10) Villarreal (DFA Candidate) 11) Webster (Starter in Pawtucket) 12) Wilson (Reliever in Pawtucket) 13) Workman (Starter in Pawtucket)
Not counting Doubront or Dempster as potential bullpen arms for this purpose.
This does not include Wright, Ranaudo, Hinojosa and Martin, all of whom will be pitching in Pawtucket.
There is a boatload of arms available to the major league team next year.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 5, 2013 12:28:55 GMT -5
But many of those arms may not be there next year. with SPs in demand right now one or more of Peavy/Doubront/Dempster may be headed elsewhere in a trade. Maybe even Tazawa for the right deal..
Also, I doubt the Sox keep three LRPs in the bullpen.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Dec 5, 2013 12:43:19 GMT -5
I wonder what value Tazawa, Britton, and or Miller would have, particularly to the Dodgers?
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Post by elguapo on Dec 5, 2013 12:45:59 GMT -5
I strongly suspect Villareal's days are numbered. Realistically:
RH - Uehara, Mujica, Tazawa, Badenhop LH - Breslow, Miller Swing - Morales / Workman AAA - Britton/Wilson
I do not see any use in sending Workman down next year, except during a temporary roster crunch.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 5, 2013 12:48:49 GMT -5
Unless they trade one of their starting pitchers, I don't see Workman on the roster. The Sox reportedly want to stretch him out in ST for an evenual call-up for the rotation.
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