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Post by mjay24 on Jul 7, 2014 20:58:13 GMT -5
Both the Rays and Brewers had more money to play with (and the possibility of trading for more) than the Red Sox ever had. When we could have just signed one, and been able to use our pool which will be much more next year and potentially pass on some really good talent for not one but two years, yeah I hate that. Our strongest position of prospects is pitching, and granted these guys are years away I still would have loved to see them go after an outfielder or big bat which is what were going to need years from now when these guys are ready.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 7, 2014 21:07:34 GMT -5
Yeah, drafting for need doesn't make sense. Signing even younger, more raw, international prospects that re even further from the big leagues for need makes even less sense.
Why wait? The Sox had relationships and the opportunity to sign the top two pitchers. DO IT! Next year - next two years - focus on the $300,000 and under prospects. But you don't pass on acquiring top talent, when you believe in that talent. Especially when teams have pretty good intel about an international draft being put into place.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2014 21:25:40 GMT -5
Yeah, they're stupid because there aren't 30 teams in baseball, just the Red Sox at the store by themselves. They should buy everyone, regardless of their scouting reports. Pay 10 times what they're worth too.
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Post by mjammz on Jul 7, 2014 22:18:45 GMT -5
Next year if there is no draft they will likely sign a ton of 300k players and hope they hit. Espinoza is one of the best international arms to come available in the last few years, if you get the chance to sign him AND Acosta you take it and worry about next year next year.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jul 7, 2014 22:29:07 GMT -5
Both the Rays and Brewers had more money to play with (and the possibility of trading for more) than the Red Sox ever had. When we could have just signed one, and been able to use our pool which will be much more next year and potentially pass on some really good talent for not one but two years, yeah I hate that. Our strongest position of prospects is pitching, and granted these guys are years away I still would have loved to see them go after an outfielder or big bat which is what were going to need years from now when these guys are ready. I won't even dwell on the drafting (in this case signing) of teenagers on the basis of perceived system deficiencies, others have covered it much better than I ever will in every single draft thread, every year since I follow this forum. And that's almost a decade. I think the FO never thought they'd be in this position on the standings this year, and at the very least they have very strong signals that a draft is about to be implemented by MLB, hence the "scorched earth" approach they took. They developed the connections and agreed on the signing bonuses before the season started, much less having any clue they'd be having a substantial amount to work with next year. So facing this situation, let me ask you this, if you were the GM or the Director of International Scouting, would you have reneged on the deal made with one the pitchers (likely Espinoza, alone he takes almost all of the money) in order to be below the cap? Keep in mind, this a industry that is pretty much laid in developing a relation with kids (they're 15 for most of the period) and their families. If word got out, coupled with the restrictions from the last CBA (no more just dumping money on it) that would be the last time the Red Sox made any signing of note internationally. Not to mention that whole bird in the hand thing.
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 7, 2014 22:30:37 GMT -5
Question: Assume that there is an international draft ext year. The CBA says that the following is the penalty for teams like the Red Sox: d. 15% or greater in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of loss of 1st round picks in next two succeeding international drafts. Is that the first round pick, or the first round bonus slot AND first round pick? I have it as the money slotted for the pick alone.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jul 7, 2014 22:37:42 GMT -5
Question: Assume that there is an international draft ext year. The CBA says that the following is the penalty for teams like the Red Sox: d. 15% or greater in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of loss of 1st round picks in next two succeeding international drafts. Is that the first round pick, or the first round bonus slot AND first round pick? Does it specifically mention that there would be a carry over on the penalties from the previous system or is that only for when a draft has been implemented.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 8, 2014 21:21:12 GMT -5
BTW according to Ben Badler the Rays still face the maximum penalty even after acquiring bonus slots.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 638
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Post by alnipper on Jul 9, 2014 20:39:43 GMT -5
Next year if there is no draft they will likely sign a ton of 300k players and hope they hit. Espinoza is one of the best international arms to come available in the last few years, if you get the chance to sign him AND Acosta you take it and worry about next year next year. And the year after that as well. I don't mind 10 plus signings at 250-300k. Heard the Brewers are trying to trade for more space as well.
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Post by zil on Jul 10, 2014 4:06:12 GMT -5
So will both Espinoza and Acosta start next year in the DSL?
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Jul 10, 2014 4:45:05 GMT -5
So will both Espinoza and Acosta start next year in the DSL? Very likely since they probably won't pitch much this year if at all depending on how quickly they clear their background check.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 10, 2014 8:33:12 GMT -5
So will both Espinoza and Acosta start next year in the DSL? Very likely since they probably won't pitch much this year if at all depending on how quickly they clear their background check. I bet doing background checks is a fun job.
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 10, 2014 8:52:54 GMT -5
Question: Assume that there is an international draft ext year. The CBA says that the following is the penalty for teams like the Red Sox: d. 15% or greater in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of loss of 1st round picks in next two succeeding international drafts. Is that the first round pick, or the first round bonus slot AND first round pick? Does it specifically mention that there would be a carry over on the penalties from the previous system or is that only for when a draft has been implemented. Yes, it is specifically mentioned that it is carried over.
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2014 13:45:40 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 15, 2014 7:27:52 GMT -5
Baseball America ?@baseballamerica 26m Banned for life from the Mexican League, Cuban slugger Alfredo Despaigne will play in Japan. oak.ctx.ly/r/1dmd0
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 15, 2014 12:27:21 GMT -5
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan 25m
Selig on an international draft: "I believe in it, and I hope during the next negotiations we get it done.”
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan 46m
Selig on minor league salaries: “In the overall economics of the sport, I think the clubs have done ... what they frankly can afford to do.”
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 15, 2014 12:32:59 GMT -5
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan 25m Selig on an international draft: "I believe in it, and I hope during the next negotiations we get it done.” It's inevitable at this point.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 15, 2014 12:41:10 GMT -5
Baseball America ?@baseballamerica 26m Banned for life from the Mexican League, Cuban slugger Alfredo Despaigne will play in Japan. oak.ctx.ly/r/1dmd0So when can he come to the US? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by azblue on Jul 15, 2014 20:03:04 GMT -5
MLB had best pray that the result of an international draft works out better than it did when kids from Puerto Rico became subject to the draft.
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Post by quintanariffic on Jul 15, 2014 21:19:28 GMT -5
MLB had best pray that the result of an international draft works out better than it did when kids from Puerto Rico became subject to the draft. I'd be shocked if it were that bad. And by shocked, I mean that if the impact to player development in the DR, Venezuela etc.. is as grave as it was in Puerto Rico, that would likely represent a best case scenario for the impact of the intl draft. I'd guess the likely impact will be much worse. At least PR had moderate income and an infrastructure in both education and sports to help plug the gaps once the incentive for teams to have resources there (scouts, academies, etc..) is eliminated. There is much less, if any, backstop in the poorer parts of Latin America from which most intl FAs are signed.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jul 15, 2014 22:23:25 GMT -5
MLB had best pray that the result of an international draft works out better than it did when kids from Puerto Rico became subject to the draft. Do you think the people running MLB care? An International Draft would enable them to cheat poor Latin Americans out of their right to compete in an actual free market, strip advantages from those teams willing to work hard and invest money to make their product better, and do nothing to impede the owners in their unending quest to dip into the public till for stadium funding and other goodies. What's not to love?
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 16, 2014 12:21:20 GMT -5
Question on these two pitchers for someone who knows more about player development than I. Acosta sits as high as 92 and Espinoza as high as 93. They are both 16, so they can still get taller. But if they are low 90's as a 16 year old does that put them as potential triple digit guys? To advance that question, at what ages do pitchers typically add velocity and at what age would you say their velocity plateaus? Could someone answer this?? Where does a 16 year who hits low 90's project to be in the future? I know all cases are different but we should have some general knowledge.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 16, 2014 13:31:10 GMT -5
Question on these two pitchers for someone who knows more about player development than I. Acosta sits as high as 92 and Espinoza as high as 93. They are both 16, so they can still get taller. But if they are low 90's as a 16 year old does that put them as potential triple digit guys? To advance that question, at what ages do pitchers typically add velocity and at what age would you say their velocity plateaus? Could someone answer this?? Where does a 16 year who hits low 90's project to be in the future? I know all cases are different but we should have some general knowledge. I've seen analyses that indicate velocity peaks with a short plateau between 21 and 25 for starters, with a subsequent slow decline and then another post-prime drop-off in their early 30s. This may change as more and more pitchers try to reach max velocity earlier to improve their stock. I imagine some of the early-prime velocity drop is actually associated with guys learning to *pitch* so that they're not always max-effort...they can go deeper into games and vary the speed of their FB enough to throw batters off. This probably helps with longevity (Jon Lester is a great example...I've seen him hit 97, but he works around 91-94...probably a reason he's so durable). Also, I imagine some of that early drop-off is due to attrition of guys who throw hard but either have catastrophic injury, or simply wash out of baseball because they don't learn to use craft, which is really what gets major league batters out. Relievers are a little different. Note though, that for starters, their K/9 actually peaks in their mid to late 20s (again, they are still able to throw hard, but probably have also learned how to "pitch," thus they are at the height of their abilities). For staters, peak performance (ERA, WHIP) indicators show a prime between 24 or 25 and 28 to 30, with a slow drop-off from 30 to 33 or so, and then a much more rapid fall-off after that. Here's the Fangraphs data link about velocity and K rates: www.fangraphs.com/blogs/pitcher-aging-curves-starters-and-relievers/
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 3, 2014 12:43:13 GMT -5
Apropos high profile vs low profile IFAs, and the Sox being limited to $300k signings next year, Eduardo Rodriguez signed for $175k in 2009.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 3, 2014 16:07:25 GMT -5
You know I read that this guy Alfredo Despaigne isn't really crazy about coming here. He is very loyal to Cuba. I hope the article was a misprint.
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