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2014 Non-Red Sox MLB thread
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 28, 2014 17:21:18 GMT -5
The market going up is a self-fulfilling prophecy no? It's this kind of contract that raises the bar. Cabrera doesn't compare to trout, as one is young and the other will not be when is original contract is up. It's just a reflection of increasing revenues. Bigger pie, bigger piece (although actually a smaller piece by percentage).
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Post by Gwell55 on Mar 28, 2014 19:07:35 GMT -5
The market going up is a self-fulfilling prophecy no? It's this kind of contract that raises the bar. Cabrera doesn't compare to trout, as one is young and the other will not be when is original contract is up. It's just a reflection of increasing revenues. Bigger pie, bigger piece (although actually a smaller piece by percentage). And the best thing will happen next year... that is when the Tigers won't be able to afford any help for Miggy along with losing their pitching and a poor farm system. That should help out all the AL tremendously when Detroit doesn't have the guns to keep the fire burning in the regular season let alone the playoffs. This contract will be like Pujols and the Angels with the reward being like the Sox 2012 contract pinch. I bet in a few years the dodgers won't bite either. Which one of these long term contracts have actually worked out? I don't recall any so far.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 28, 2014 20:03:28 GMT -5
Miggy's body type ages well though. Probably be a bargain. It's signing him two years out that's really crazy. Cabrera might decline in those two years, and more importantly, the Tigers might not be very good in two years with or without Cabrera. Both of those things would inform the decision to sign Cabrera or not, but the Tigers punted that data. The only way that's justifiable is if you get some kind of discount from the player by signing him sooner, and while I'm sure that Dave Cameron is working on some sort of contrarian "well, after Trout gets a half-billion, Miggy would have cost infinity-plus-one dollars to sign" post as we speak, there's no way this is any kind of discount. So if you're going to pay full market rate and then some, why not just wait a couple years and see where the player is at and the team is at? You mean the approach the Phillies wish they took with Howard.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 28, 2014 21:09:55 GMT -5
Joel Sherman ?@joelsherman1 4h Can confirm @kendavidoff report. #Yankees have indeed signed Alfredo Aceves to minor lge deal. It is to start at AAA. MLB Trade Rumors ?@mlbtraderumors 5h Rays To Re-Sign Erik Bedard dlvr.it/5G6qjy #mlb
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Post by jmei on Mar 28, 2014 21:32:22 GMT -5
Trout close to six-year, $140m extension, per Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 28, 2014 21:39:26 GMT -5
Quiet, you're ruining the narrative that the Angels are broke and can no longer function because of long-term contracts.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 28, 2014 21:40:29 GMT -5
Trout close to six-year, $140m extension, per Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com. Great move by the Angels if it happens. If he stays healthy, and that's a good bet, its a fantastic deal and they show him they understand how good he is. This may set some precedent.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 28, 2014 21:45:06 GMT -5
Quiet, you're ruining the narrative that the Angels are broke and can no longer function because of long-term contracts. If they are on the ropes, disrespecting Trout is not the way to go. If you expect to get out of that hole, this is the right gamble, somebody you would leverage for. Hell I'd lend them the money if I had it and they needed it.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 28, 2014 22:11:34 GMT -5
So he comes in second to Cabrera again..... Nah what is he gonna be when this deal end? 28? (I know full details are not available yet) so get rich now then ge richer.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 28, 2014 23:05:25 GMT -5
Trout close to six-year, $140m extension, per Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com. Great move by the Angels if it happens. If he stays healthy, and that's a good bet, its a fantastic deal and they show him they understand how good he is. This may set some precedent. I wouldn't say it's THAT fantastic. They're buying out three arbitration years and three free agent years. They are sacrificing three (relatively) cheap years of production to buy out three free agent years, while bearing a pretty big financial risk. And it's not like they're buying out the free agent years for a huge discount, the AAV of this deal makes Trout one of the handful of highest paid guys in the game. I would say this is fair deal.
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Post by jmei on Mar 28, 2014 23:19:37 GMT -5
Um, Trout's arbitration year's aren't going to be that cheap. He's easily on track to get something like 13-18-24 during his arb years, which means the Angels got three of Trout's prime free agent years (his age 26-28 years) for around $30m each. That's absolutely a steal, especially once you figure in inflation. If Trout went year-to-year, I'm pretty confident he'd blow that mark out of the water as a 25-year-old free agent. Hell, the Tigers just paid a 33-year-old Miguel Cabrera more than that.
For Trout, what this deal does do is give him some stability (including a no-trade clause) as well as hedge against the small risk that he suffers Grady Sizemore/Tony C-esque injuries, so I can't fault him for signing it. But let's not pretend this is anything but a steal for the Angels.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 29, 2014 0:03:40 GMT -5
Keep in mind that this guy is a 9-10 WAR player in each of the last two years. What did Ryan Howard get in arbitration a few years back? Wasn't it 15 million? Trout would leave that in the dust. The arbitrators like the counting stats, and Trout has all of those including steals. But for statheads he also sports the secondary skills and gold glove defensive chops at a prime defensive position. This is a no-brainer for the Angels.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 29, 2014 0:07:45 GMT -5
It's signing him two years out that's really crazy. Cabrera might decline in those two years, and more importantly, the Tigers might not be very good in two years with or without Cabrera. Both of those things would inform the decision to sign Cabrera or not, but the Tigers punted that data. The only way that's justifiable is if you get some kind of discount from the player by signing him sooner, and while I'm sure that Dave Cameron is working on some sort of contrarian "well, after Trout gets a half-billion, Miggy would have cost infinity-plus-one dollars to sign" post as we speak, there's no way this is any kind of discount. So if you're going to pay full market rate and then some, why not just wait a couple years and see where the player is at and the team is at? You mean the approach the Phillies wish they took with Howard. I mean everyone already knew Howard was in decline even when the Phillies signed him, but yeah, more or less.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 29, 2014 6:50:16 GMT -5
Howard got ten million his first year, posey agreed to 9 million, I believe. Say Trout gets a lot more than that, which he probably would. The Angles are still paying him around 30 million a year for 3 year years, which is a certain under pay. But it's an underpay of probably 25 to 30 percent, compared to a conservative projection of what he would get on the open market (say 40 to 45 million per year). A lot of guys (Pedroia, longoria, Lester, ect...) buyout their free agent years for half or less than can get at free agency. There are very good reasons why Trout signed this: he gets to enjoy some money when he is 23, he puts the risk on the Angels, ect.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 29, 2014 7:08:32 GMT -5
Keep in mind that this guy is a 9-10 WAR player in each of the last two years. What did Ryan Howard get in arbitration a few years back? Wasn't it 15 million? Trout would leave that in the dust. The arbitrators like the counting stats, and Trout has all of those including steals. But for statheads he also sports the secondary skills and gold glove defensive chops at a prime defensive position. This is a no-brainer for the Angels. Howard got 10m. Trout should get more, but Howard was technically an MVP and thus far Trout hasn't been, which shouldn't matter but does in arbitration world. Based on the things (crap) arbitration focuses on you can make an argument that Howard would still be the best player to reach arbitration.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 29, 2014 10:40:53 GMT -5
That might be the first good move the Angels have made in a decade.
The Tigers, meanwhile, just aren't a very intelligent organization. They're about three years - and Miggy breaking down - away from being a disaster.
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Post by jmei on Mar 29, 2014 12:01:05 GMT -5
Howard got ten million his first year, posey agreed to 9 million, I believe. Say Trout gets a lot more than that, which he probably would. The Angles are still paying him around 30 million a year for 3 year years, which is a certain under pay. But it's an underpay of probably 25 to 30 percent, compared to a conservative projection of what he would get on the open market (say 40 to 45 million per year). A lot of guys (Pedroia, longoria, Lester, ect...) buyout their free agent years for half or less than can get at free agency. There are very good reasons why Trout signed this: he gets to enjoy some money when he is 23, he puts the risk on the Angels, ect. I think we should look at it in dollar terms (since that's the money that the player effectively gives up in return for security) rather than in percentage terms. Trout easily left $10m+ per year on the table for each free agent year, which is more than most pre-FA extensions give up. Also, the extension benchmarks you're citing (Pedroia, Longoria, Lester) are widely regarded (even at the time that they were signed) as among the most team-friendly extensions signed in recent history. Using more recent/better benchmarks really illustrates what a steal this is. Consider, for instance, that that Freddie Freeman is getting $91m over the first six years of his recent extension (also buying out three years of arbitration and three free agent years). Trout is literally more than twice the player that Freeman is, yet he's only getting a little over 1.5 times what Freeman is getting.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Mar 29, 2014 13:37:16 GMT -5
It's a good deal for the Angels, for sure, but I think it's also a solid business deal for Trout. There's clearly value in guaranteed money when compared to prospective money, and Trout came up at a young enough age that he has a couple of extra years of peak performance to play around with (he's two years younger than Freeman, for example). It's a totally rational decision to bank some guaranteed money now in exchange for something of which he has a relative surplus when compared to other players.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2014 18:59:32 GMT -5
Is Joe West Really one of the umps in the command center
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 30, 2014 19:03:00 GMT -5
That's probably the perfect job for West. He's a pretty good umpire in terms of accuracy, he's just an attention-grabber with a penchant for escalating tensions, rather than calming them. Being in the command center position where he can't do the things that we all hate Joe West for.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 30, 2014 19:19:55 GMT -5
In a stunning bit of news:
Sam Miller ?@sammillerbp 21m The Dodgers bought all the games, nobody else has any games
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2014 19:28:37 GMT -5
Puig's throw was right on the mondey…..
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Post by jdb on Mar 30, 2014 21:44:58 GMT -5
Cashner looked good. Cubs might want a mulligan on that Rizzo deal.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2014 22:09:17 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 30, 2014 22:13:45 GMT -5
Cool to see that Ryan Rowland-Smith has made the Diamondbacks bullpen. He was fantasitc for the PawSox last year before his appendicitis.
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