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5/2-5/4 Red Sox vs. Athletics Series Thread
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Post by Guidas on May 4, 2014 16:43:24 GMT -5
@brianmacp 3m Middlebrooks said the Donaldson collision "just zinged me." He said he's fine.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 4, 2014 16:45:53 GMT -5
Anyone know how many options John Farrell has left? I'd love to get him some situational managing reps in Triple-A. It's not fair to make him learn on the fly in the big leagues.
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Post by mgoetze on May 4, 2014 16:47:16 GMT -5
angle the damn bat toward third or first. It is not that hard!! Do you have any proof of this whatsoever? Everything I've ever seen or read indicates that it is hard.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,017
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Post by ericmvan on May 4, 2014 16:47:49 GMT -5
It's easy to cut Farrell some slack for for this game, because bunting has been such a successful strategy for him this year ... oh, wait, actually it's been a consistent dismal failure, precisely as expected.
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Post by station13 on May 4, 2014 16:48:08 GMT -5
Bradley had the worst game one could have for their career. And his 60% batted ball are grounders, he just can't make good contact.
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Post by jmei on May 4, 2014 16:50:19 GMT -5
Gutless team. Blow it up. I know that you are being facetious (aren't you?). JBJ has not yet turned out to be the dynamic player we had hoped for. I had no problem with bunting there given his penchant for strikeouts. But someone who is not known as a power guy has still not learned how to bunt? Where were all those great Sox instructors in the minors and majors? Of course this issue is age old but damn!...angle the damn bat toward third or first. It is not that hard!! The Japanese would probably have JBJ practicing bunting starting at dawn....and work until he gets it right....or sayonara! 1) Bunting is really, really hard, especially against pitchers and defenses that are expecting it. 2) Let's not perpetuate racial or ethnic stereotypes.
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Post by templeusox on May 4, 2014 16:52:15 GMT -5
Anyone know how many options John Farrell has left? I'd love to get him some situational managing reps in Triple-A. It's not fair to make him learn on the fly in the big leagues. Go check the posts in this thread. Everyone questioned the bunts he puts on while they are happening.
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Post by mgoetze on May 4, 2014 16:53:07 GMT -5
And his 60% batted ball are grounders, he just can't make good contact. "Good" contact being something other than that play where they tagged out WMB at 3rd because he hit it too hard? So softer is better?
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Post by jimed14 on May 4, 2014 16:59:56 GMT -5
It's his job to advance the runner there. But seriously JBJ is not a good enough bunter to have him bunt there. Seriously versus a righty, you don't trust him to hit a ground ball to second? He hit a ground ball to 1st.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 4, 2014 17:04:14 GMT -5
It's his job to advance the runner there. But seriously JBJ is not a good enough bunter to have him bunt there. Seriously versus a righty, you don't trust him to hit a ground ball to second? He hit a ground ball to 1st. He hit a ground ball to the first baseman who was playing in because he had bunted.
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Post by jimed14 on May 4, 2014 17:09:43 GMT -5
He hit a ground ball to 1st. He hit a ground ball to the first baseman who was playing in because he had bunted. Which was Farrell's decision, not JBJ's. Farrell is the choker in this game.
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Post by mgoetze on May 4, 2014 17:10:57 GMT -5
JBJ's WPA today was -.621, which is the lowest in baseball for a player this year. It's also the 3rd lowest for any player in a game over the last 5 years. Not sure how he gets a pass. -.370 of that was on direct orders from Farrell and the remaining -.251 was against a pitcher who threw a CG shutout last week. Nevermind that WPA is a pretty bad stat (for evaluating performance) in the first place.
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Post by station13 on May 4, 2014 17:17:07 GMT -5
And his 60% batted ball are grounders, he just can't make good contact. "Good" contact being something other than that play where they tagged out WMB at 3rd because he hit it too hard? So softer is better? Good contact as in not beating the ball into the ground over half of his batted ball in play. Hit a line drive, fly ball, that's making good contact on a ball.
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Post by godot on May 4, 2014 18:03:56 GMT -5
Tough day for Jr. Since Oregon Norm is not defending him today, I will give a try. In his last 31 pa until today, he was hitting .393 with five doubles and 12 RBI with a .452 on-base percentage with runners in scoring position. So they ask him to bunt. Oh well.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 4, 2014 18:29:54 GMT -5
I know that you are being facetious (aren't you?). JBJ has not yet turned out to be the dynamic player we had hoped for. I had no problem with bunting there given his penchant for strikeouts. But someone who is not known as a power guy has still not learned how to bunt? Where were all those great Sox instructors in the minors and majors? Of course this issue is age old but damn!...angle the damn bat toward third or first. It is not that hard!! The Japanese would probably have JBJ practicing bunting starting at dawn....and work until he gets it right....or sayonara! 1) Bunting is really, really hard, especially against pitchers and defenses that are expecting it. 2) Let's not perpetuate racial or ethnic stereotypes. Paaahleeeze!. There is no racial or ethnic stereotype intended and certainly not in a negative sense. Can we get past "political correctness" in the extreme? A number of years ago I was transferred for a year to Japan and experienced a widely different culture. In the process I came to know a Japanese baseball player who later signed a minor league contract with an American League team. Unfortunately for him, he never made it past AA. But I followed his progress and touched 'base' from time to time. Along the way, he noted that Japanese baseball was so different from that in the states. In Japan his coaches demanded excellence and on non-game days often spent most of the day on full-speed drills. Missing assignments was regarded as a disgrace. When he signed a minor-league contract here, he was surprised by the 'relaxed' attitude of American coaches. Although feeling less pressure, he felt (whether or not true) that the 'new' attitude hindered his development. It was interesting too in that although he 'feared' his Japanese coaches, he also seemed to revere them as well. Regardless, JBJ should be able to bunt better.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 4, 2014 18:45:10 GMT -5
Regardless, JBJ should be able to bunt better. God no. My only hope is that if he sucks at it enough Farrell will stop asking him to do.
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Post by jmei on May 4, 2014 18:49:49 GMT -5
I moved the Asian stereotyping discussion to the Throwdown subforum-- lets not gum up this thread with it. Thanks.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 4, 2014 20:43:27 GMT -5
This is such an aggravating team to watch. Another close winnable game at home the Red Sox find a way to lose. I guess that's 3-8 in 1 run games. And the squandered offensive opportunities. They have been so un-clutch this year.
It's funny. You can evaluate with all the numbers and stats you want to, but when it's your year the guy going 0-10 will suddenly come up with the big hit, but when it's not, the guy who goes 4-5 will make his out at the most crucial time. The randomness of baseball is pretty amazing that way.
Logically, there's about 130 games left to play and plenty of time to assert themselves, but emotionally, watching this team play - they just don't have IT. It's like when they have runners on base I expect them to squander the opportunity. Last year if the count got to 2-0 while trailing by a run in the late innings you expected the Sox to capitalize on an opportunity.
Logically I couldn't believe it could be their year last year after the dismal year they had, but it just was and this year they're playing as they had before 2013 - they won't go 69-93 - I do think something like 87-75 is more realistic, but of course they'd have to scale that impossible mountain - .500 ball, something that they can't seem to do which is quite ridiculous.
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Post by Guidas on May 4, 2014 21:23:10 GMT -5
They should've swept the Rays and swept the Athletics. Tough to watch is the operative phrase. It could all click but there is no margin for error with these guys right now.
All the more reason to leave bunts and hit-and-runs back in the 70s where they belong.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 4, 2014 22:29:43 GMT -5
A big part of managing is knowing your personnel and getting the most out of them. Asking JBJ to bunt there is probably not the answer. Farrel seems to constantly try to fit a square peg into a round hole. For example trying to get guys like Nava to run more. Expecting Herrera to steal bases when he has 14 Steals and 12 CS in his career.
I also worry a little that this team may not hit like before. It is another year older for Ortiz and some others and we need some of these guys to produce as they did last year. I wish we could find a slot for Nava because I have more faith that he would hit than I do Gomes or Sizemore.
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Post by godot on May 4, 2014 22:35:49 GMT -5
They are who they are. Get use to it. The gutted the middle and for financial reasons, and they haven't replaced it yet. Ellsbury gave a synergy to the batting order. Drew was also a decent hitter, and Salty provided power, creating some dynamism at the bottom of the order. And no way was Koji going to repeat at his age. It rteally irks me to see them develop Ellsbury and then say good by because John Henry had his bean counters develop formulas to figure out value, instead of looking from a baseball pint of view, what he brought to the table and odds of replacing. Management is the key to successful teams, and now I wonder...... but who gives a flying fk what I think. I still will follow and cross my fingers, have since the 50s. I really do not know if some you get what has and is happening to this team. Computers do not play the game on the field, and hedge fund guys are-- you can fill in the blanks.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 4, 2014 22:54:19 GMT -5
They are who they are. Get use to it. The gutted the middle and for financial reasons, and they haven't replaced it yet. Ellsbury gave a synergy to the batting order. Drew was also a decent hitter, and Salty provided power, creating some dynamism at the bottom of the order. And no way was Koji going to repeat at his age. It rteally irks me to see them develop Ellsbury and then say good by because John Henry had his bean counters develop formulas to figure out value, instead of looking from a baseball pint of view, what he brought to the table and odds of replacing. Management is the key to successful teams, and now I wonder...... but who gives a flying fk what I think. I still will follow and cross my fingers, have since the 50s. I really do not know if some you get what has and is happening to this team. Computers do not play the game on the field, and hedge fund guys are-- you can fill in the blanks. I get your frustration that Bradley hasn't instantly become the second coming of Ellsbury but that doesn't mean that the Sox were wrong to let him walk and not outbid the ridiculous figure the Yanks paid to secure his services. If you've been a Sox fan since the 1950s it shouldn't be hard for you to compare the way Henry has done business to the "baseball point of view" that the Yawkeys ran the club with. I'll take John Henry any day of the week over Tom Yawkey and twice on Sunday. Let's keep the math really, really simple. John Henry: 3 World Championships (in 12 seasons) Tom Yawkey: 0 World Championships (in 44 seasons - you can't extend that to 69 seasons if you count the Jean Yawkey/John Harrington years) I'll take John Henry's approach. He won't be right on everything but he'd be a lot more right on things than what preceded him. Look at the past ten years. Sox have more Championships than everybody else. He's doing something right. The Sox have been bridging to a young team that will take a more definitive shape in the second half of this decade. They won the Series last year while bridging, but that's atypical. What you're seeing this year is more typical as aggravating as it is. Be patient. In time Bradley should be a pretty good ballplayer. Bogaerts will likely be a star. Betts and Swihart will be pretty good ballplayers, too. And there are others. Have a little faith.
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Post by mattpicard on May 4, 2014 23:41:19 GMT -5
They are who they are. Get use to it. The gutted the middle and for financial reasons, and they haven't replaced it yet. Ellsbury gave a synergy to the batting order. Drew was also a decent hitter, and Salty provided power, creating some dynamism at the bottom of the order. And no way was Koji going to repeat at his age. It rteally irks me to see them develop Ellsbury and then say good by because John Henry had his bean counters develop formulas to figure out value, instead of looking from a baseball pint of view, what he brought to the table and odds of replacing. Management is the key to successful teams, and now I wonder...... but who gives a flying fk what I think. I still will follow and cross my fingers, have since the 50s. I really do not know if some you get what has and is happening to this team. Computers do not play the game on the field, and hedge fund guys are-- you can fill in the blanks. What is the baseball point of view that you're referring to? Sign the best players currently with no regard for long term commitment and potential decline in player value over the life of the deal? The Yankees signed him to a 7-year pact after he turned 30 years old, and we're talking about a player whose game relies on his legs. No one, including the biggest proponents for letting him walk, thought that he wouldn't go and have a few terrific seasons with the Yankees. We all knew what we were losing, and that he'd bite us in the ass for the next couple of seasons. But in years five, six, and seven of that deal? Something tells me we'll be grinning then. I get your frustration, as he did set the tone for this lineup. We didn't really lose any other offensive forces, so to see the offense struggle like this, it's easy to mope over Ells' departure. But expressing anger towards Henry and Co. for assessing the value Ells would provide and refraining from giving him a fat shortsighted contract, when we have a 75-grade fielder and probably around average hitter (maybe not right now, but likely in the near-future) there to take his spot in center? I can't fault him for that. At least the AL East as a whole has been struggling. That's no excuse for some of the horrid baseball we've played, mainly on defense and with RISP, but we're really not in that much of a gloomy situation. We just recently got our full lineup back in order, and Ortiz, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Bradley, and Sizemore have all underachieved to one degree or another. The RISP woes are simply inexcusable, and really as a fan are starting to become unbearable, but that's not because we let Ellsbury walk. Stick with Pedey up top, as he's our best leadoff option. Follow him with Shanf, Papi, Nap, Bogey, Sizemore, WMB as much as possible and that gives you a formidable, albeit unspectacular 1-7 that will start to click more than we've seen to date. Farrell needs to relax with forcing pressure on the opposing defense or trying to make things happen with foolish bunts, hit and runs, and steals. These are good hitters and we just need to let them hit. Sizemore and WMB may not pan out, but it's plenty too early to tell and we have suitable replacements in tow. We just took 2 out of 3 from a terrific team, and almost swept today against one of the best young hurlers in the game. A lot can happen in these next few weeks to change our outlook.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 5, 2014 0:33:06 GMT -5
A lot can happen in these next few weeks to change our outlook. My feelings exactly. The Red Sox had a lot of games they should have won or were just unlucky. Regardless of how frustrating that is, it bodes well for the future.
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Post by godot on May 5, 2014 3:23:49 GMT -5
Matt, JH hires financial people who determine the value of a player by a formula or whatever they call it, as he believes letting the market determine value is zonkers. I do not know what info they compute, and agree with JH's assessment of the market and his reluctance to chase guys over 30. But if you need a certain player, then you have to play the game and usually overpay. Unlike you, just have a higher estimation of Ellsbury's worth, particularly on the offense sie of the game, and there not are too many outfield prospects in the system. But I understand the reasoning about Bradley. Just believe IMHO that Ellsbury developed into an exceptional and hard to come by offensive force who can be a "game changer". Also, don't believe they would not be hindered by his contract or lose financial flexibility ( which they will not use). The Sox are a cash cow. ( NY York also made the splash because of TV)
Pretty clear they had a figure for Ellsbury that was less than he probably would get in the market ( greater fool theory) and stuck to it. Don't know what his willingness was about staying with the Sox or whether he would have stuck with the Sox with something near what he expected from the market. Seems they are using the same approach with Lester, perhaps thinking he is at the 30 stage with many innings pitched and will regress. He probably will lose more velocity, but he seems to have adjusted to the velocity he has already lost, and is a horse. Don't see any replacement next year either, and Lackey and Peavy will be a year older. What prospects they may have take time to develop once they hit the big time. More than likely, they will let Lester walk.
Yup, I am frustrated ,but in my sane moments, all two minutes of them, feel that once X-Man and Bradley hit their potential Sox will be better. I also assuming Sizemore will get better ( maybe shouldn't assume) Middlebrooks is the big question mark, at least for me. Don't know X-Man's defensive impact, and whether Koji will come close to repeating. They may have to scramble with the pen again. And yes, while he is holding his own, especially for his age, X-Man is not a real force in the lineup, no surprise for at least the first month or so. I am told that he heats up with the weather. Basically, they are in a transition and should become better. But if they had the fearsome threesome now, they would be running away with it. Maybe the "chemistry" went with them.
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