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6/9-6/11 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 11, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5
I'm really dreading the Workman + for Byrd trade already. My stomach just turned. Why would you say something so horrible? Lou Gorman, blue light special. He loved giving away good prospects for bags of rubbish.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 11, 2014 10:02:03 GMT -5
Ben isn't that dumb. We're not doing that.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 11, 2014 10:16:39 GMT -5
Other than Bagwell for Anderson, did Gorman have any really bad prospect-for-veteran moves? Schilling/Anderson for Boddicker made sense, and it took both prospects five years to turn into anything while Boddicker pitched great on two division-winning teams.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 11, 2014 10:23:11 GMT -5
Speaking of trades, is there a good website to find all Red Sox trades? Not having much luck googling.
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Post by jmei on Jun 11, 2014 10:25:19 GMT -5
SoxProspects has a pretty good transactions log, at least for recent trades (since 2003). You can go back to past years and scan the list for trades, or just ctrl+f "trade."
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2014 13:27:00 GMT -5
San Francisco needs a second baseman really bad and we have a declining veteran, who can't drive in runs and is owed nearly $100 million dollars, a perfect fit for what the Giants need. Dude, why do you keep trying to trade Pedroia? If San Fran wants to make a huge deal for a 2nd baseman with the Sox they will ask for Holt or Mookie.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 11, 2014 13:28:15 GMT -5
James,
In a sense you are correct in that the Bagwell trade was his lone disaster. However, Lou Gorman's priorities left me uncomfortable in that he was not beyond trading high ceiling talent for shorter term gain. Although he didn't amount to anything, Jeff Sellers who was traded for Nick Esasky had tremendous stuff- people may recall his near no-hitter in his last game for the Sox- and then his arm burnt out after the trade ending his career. Gorman came within a hair of dumping a young Mo Vaugn for a close to washed up Sid Fernandez.. his mindset made it inevitable that he'd be burned big-time, which of course he was. I rejoiced when the Sox brought on Duquette, and both he and his predecessors have been obviously highly intelligent and have an excellent track record in terms of rarely having the young talent they traded to persue post-season coming back to bite them. In fairness to Gorman, he was a wonderful person and only after retiring admitted the pressure of the 'sox nation drought creating this motivation to win EVERY Year.
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 11, 2014 13:48:26 GMT -5
No lineup yet, but guessing we'll be rolling this out there:
LF Holt 3B Bogaerts 2B Pedroia DH Ortiz 1B Napoli RF Gomes C Pierzynski SS Herrera CF Bradley, Jr.
RHP De La Rosa
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 11, 2014 14:00:46 GMT -5
Scott Lauber ?@scottlauber 4s #RedSox at BAL (LH Chen): Holt LF, Bogaerts 3B, Pedroia 2B, Ortiz DH, Napoli 1B, Gomes RF, Pierzynski C, Herrera SS, Bradley CF, De La Rosa
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 11, 2014 14:04:30 GMT -5
They should drop ten runs on the board tonight. 2 homers for Bogaerts.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2014 14:10:13 GMT -5
In counterpoint to all y'all looking to break-up the team, they are 9-6 in their last 15 and could actually keep that going. So, from an optimistic perspective - Andrew Friedman has repeatedly said he has no issues trading in the div, he will just take the best overall package on a trade. IF the Sox could pull within 3-5 games of first and Tampa continues to exude putridity, Ben could make a move for a year and a third of Price as a hedge against losing Lester, depending on the overall ransom.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 11, 2014 15:07:09 GMT -5
James, In a sense you are correct in that the Bagwell trade was his lone disaster. However, Lou Gorman's priorities left me uncomfortable in that he was not beyond trading high ceiling talent for shorter term gain. Although he didn't amount to anything, Jeff Sellers who was traded for Nick Esasky had tremendous stuff- people may recall his near no-hitter in his last game for the Sox- and then his arm burnt out after the trade ending his career. Gorman came within a hair of dumping a young Mo Vaugn for a close to washed up Sid Fernandez.. his mindset made it inevitable that he'd be burned big-time, which of course he was. I rejoiced when the Sox brought on Duquette, and both he and his predecessors have been obviously highly intelligent and have an excellent track record in terms of rarely having the young talent they traded to persue post-season coming back to bite them. In fairness to Gorman, he was a wonderful person and only after retiring admitted the pressure of the 'sox nation drought creating this motivation to win EVERY Year. Tony C, I appreciate the response. I've started a thread in off-topic on Red Sox history so that we don't derail the gameday thread with our nostalgic musings.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,017
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 11, 2014 16:14:25 GMT -5
Another pitcher on an incredible run is Burke Badenhop. Good thing we didn't DFA him, eh? In his last 22 games, he's pitched 26 1/3 innings, 17H, 1R, 0ER(Yes zero), 7bb, 12k's. He's inherited 26 runners and only 6 scored. Not sure of league average on those. But, sounds good. And, induced 9 GIDP. When his peripherals come around, he's gonna get pounded [remainder deleted by amfox1]. When they got him, I noted how much worse he'd been in certain base-out situations than with the bases empty. Specifically, he'd been hit much harder in GDP situations (now career 786 versus 652 with the bases empty; the split would be bigger if I deducted this year). I thought the explanation was that when hitters knew he was trying to get groundballs, he became too predictable, and that we should tell him to just go after hitters as he usually does in those situations, since he was a groundball machine anyway. I don't know if they gave him that advice, but this year he's 608, versus 718 bases empty, and his GDP% is up from .133 to .294.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2014 16:18:31 GMT -5
Farrell has been inconsistent citing small samples but often likes to cite that player X has a good history vs. pitcher X. To that end:
Nava vs. Chen 7-13 .538/.571/.759 with a HR, 1BB, 3Ks Gomes vs Chen 4-19 .200/.286/.368 with a HR, 2BB, 7Ks
Couldn't find the energy stat…
Oh, and Nava is the superior defender.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 11, 2014 16:24:29 GMT -5
Farrell has been inconsistent citing small samples but often likes to cite that player X has a good history vs. pitcher X. To that end: Nava vs. Chen 7-13 .538/.571/.759 with a HR, 1BB, 3Ks Gomes vs Chen 4-19 .200/.286/.368 with a HR, 2BB, 7Ks Couldn't find the energy stat… Oh, and Nava is the superior defender. If Farrell can simply avoid playing Gomes vs any RHP and Nava vs any LHP, that's all I ask of him. I have no desire for him to overthink anything.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,017
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 11, 2014 16:24:34 GMT -5
In counterpoint to all y'all looking to break-up the team, they are 9-6 in their last 15 and could actually keep that going. So, from an optimistic perspective - Andrew Friedman has repeatedly said he has no issues trading in the div, he will just take the best overall package on a trade. IF the Sox could pull within 3-5 games of first and Tampa continues to exude putridity, Ben could make a move for a year and a third of Price as a hedge against losing Lester, depending on the overall ransom. They're 8-3 without Drew and 1-3 with him in that stretch. If Buchholz comes back strong, I don't see Price as being enough of an upgrade over our 5th starter (Workman) to warrant the trade. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a sizable upgrade, but there will be lots of contenders with bad 5th starters for whom it would be a much bigger upgrade and who can hence justify the cost better than we would be able to. (If Buccholz doesn't come back, that's different.) What this team really needs is a LH hitting corner OF who can join Ortiz and Napoli in the heart of the order. (When Pierzynski is your second best LHH, you know you've got an imbalance.) The guy who would be a great fit in a trade is Alex Gordon, but with the Royals 3 games back, that's not happening any time soon.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 11, 2014 16:32:12 GMT -5
In counterpoint to all y'all looking to break-up the team, they are 9-6 in their last 15 and could actually keep that going. So, from an optimistic perspective - Andrew Friedman has repeatedly said he has no issues trading in the div, he will just take the best overall package on a trade. IF the Sox could pull within 3-5 games of first and Tampa continues to exude putridity, Ben could make a move for a year and a third of Price as a hedge against losing Lester, depending on the overall ransom. They're 8-3 without Drew and 1-3 with him in that stretch. If Buchholz comes back strong, I don't see Price as being enough of an upgrade over our 5th starter (Workman) to warrant the trade. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a sizable upgrade, but there will be lots of contenders with bad 5th starters for whom it would be a much bigger upgrade and who can hence justify the cost better than we would be able to. (If Buccholz doesn't come back, that's different.) What this team really needs is a LH hitting corner OF who can join Ortiz and Napoli in the heart of the order. (When Pierzynski is your second best LHH, you know you've got an imbalance.) The guy who would be a great fit in a trade is Alex Gordon, but with the Royals 3 games back, that's not happening any time soon. We also need Ortiz and Pedroia to hit like Ortiz and Pedroia and for Victorino to be a 5+ win player again. We could also probably use Drew hitting like he did vs. RHP last year. Hard to believe how few league average hitters we have this year compared to last. Ellsbury was basically a worse hitter than we got from every other position outside of 3B last year with a wRC+ of 113. SS was close, but I think Iglesias + Drew was greater than Ells.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2014 16:41:08 GMT -5
In counterpoint to all y'all looking to break-up the team, they are 9-6 in their last 15 and could actually keep that going. So, from an optimistic perspective - Andrew Friedman has repeatedly said he has no issues trading in the div, he will just take the best overall package on a trade. IF the Sox could pull within 3-5 games of first and Tampa continues to exude putridity, Ben could make a move for a year and a third of Price as a hedge against losing Lester, depending on the overall ransom. They're 8-3 without Drew and 1-3 with him in that stretch. If Buchholz comes back strong, I don't see Price as being enough of an upgrade over our 5th starter (Workman) to warrant the trade. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a sizable upgrade, but there will be lots of contenders with bad 5th starters for whom it would be a much bigger upgrade and who can hence justify the cost better than we would be able to. (If Buccholz doesn't come back, that's different.) What this team really needs is a LH hitting corner OF who can join Ortiz and Napoli in the heart of the order. (When Pierzynski is your second best LHH, you know you've got an imbalance.) The guy who would be a great fit in a trade is Alex Gordon, but with the Royals 3 games back, that's not happening any time soon. I agree about the OF but Price would give you next year too, so if they couldn't extend Lester, they'd have him and a chance to do so with Price (and he'd be younger than Lester with similar, albeit slightly better numbers. If not, you get a second 1st rounder when you QO him next year. If you do extend Lester then next year you'd have Price, Lester, Lackey, and who cares?...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 17:05:42 GMT -5
Signing Daniel Carbonell would get the Sox half way to what they need to be in order to contend, though that still wouldn't be until 2015.
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Post by jmei on Jun 11, 2014 17:29:31 GMT -5
Signing Daniel Carbonell would get the Sox half way to what they need to be in order to contend, though that still wouldn't be until 2015. Latest reports are that scouts see him as a fourth outfielder.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 11, 2014 17:33:16 GMT -5
X breaks his first mini-slump with 2 HR's tonight. Sox win their 2nd in a row....although that could mean 0 or 3 or whatever anyone wants it to mean...heck we could be a .500 team after tonight's victory.
Go Sox!!!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,660
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Post by cdj on Jun 11, 2014 17:46:57 GMT -5
In counterpoint to all y'all looking to break-up the team, they are 9-6 in their last 15 and could actually keep that going. So, from an optimistic perspective - Andrew Friedman has repeatedly said he has no issues trading in the div, he will just take the best overall package on a trade. IF the Sox could pull within 3-5 games of first and Tampa continues to exude putridity, Ben could make a move for a year and a third of Price as a hedge against losing Lester, depending on the overall ransom. They're 8-3 without Drew and 1-3 with him in that stretch. If Buchholz comes back strong, I don't see Price as being enough of an upgrade over our 5th starter (Workman) to warrant the trade. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a sizable upgrade, but there will be lots of contenders with bad 5th starters for whom it would be a much bigger upgrade and who can hence justify the cost better than we would be able to. (If Buccholz doesn't come back, that's different.) What this team really needs is a LH hitting corner OF who can join Ortiz and Napoli in the heart of the order. (When Pierzynski is your second best LHH, you know you've got an imbalance.) The guy who would be a great fit in a trade is Alex Gordon, but with the Royals 3 games back, that's not happening any time soon. Yeah because the bats that Drew has replaced in the lineup (combos of Herrera and Sizemore essentially) have been just sooooo effective, so Drew is obvioussssly the reason why we've gone 1-3 or whatever since he's been up.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,660
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Post by cdj on Jun 11, 2014 17:47:46 GMT -5
No lineup yet, but guessing we'll be rolling this out there: LF Holt 3B Bogaerts 2B Pedroia DH Ortiz 1B Napoli RF Gomes C Pierzynski SS Herrera CF Bradley, Jr. RHP De La Rosa Damn, well done.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 11, 2014 17:50:26 GMT -5
San Francisco needs a second baseman really bad and we have a declining veteran, who can't drive in runs and is owed nearly $100 million dollars, a perfect fit for what the Giants need. Dude, why do you keep trying to trade Pedroia? If San Fran wants to make a huge deal for a 2nd baseman with the Sox they will ask for Holt or Mookie. I don't think so, I think San Fran gets sucked into the Pedroia hoopla. The bottom line is you have to trade value to get value and Pedrioa has perceived value. But let's say the Sox can't trade Pedroia; we have to move him out of the #3 spot until he can actually drive in a run. Maybe Ben should put him on the DL, because he is swinging the bat like he is hurt. At this point I would rather see Bradley in the #3 hole than Pedroia,; at least Bradley is hitting a liitle bit better than his average when it comes to RISP.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2014 18:15:13 GMT -5
Dude, why do you keep trying to trade Pedroia? If San Fran wants to make a huge deal for a 2nd baseman with the Sox they will ask for Holt or Mookie. I don't think so, I think San Fran gets sucked into the Pedroia hoopla. The bottom line is you have to trade value to get value and Pedrioa has perceived value. But let's say the Sox can't trade Pedroia; we have to move him out of the #3 spot until he can actually drive in a run. Maybe Ben should put him on the DL, because he is swinging the bat like he is hurt. At this point I would rather see Bradley in the #3 hole than Pedroia,; at least Bradley is hitting a liitle bit better than his average when it comes to RISP. I love it when Yankee fans stop by to chat.
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