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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 15, 2015 11:19:16 GMT -5
We already had that. Mike Napoli's sleep apenia surgery.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 15, 2015 11:42:03 GMT -5
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 15, 2015 11:59:47 GMT -5
I think that's somewhat true actually. If they can't manage to win 80 games this year, I think his job is in jeopardy. Three last place finishes in four years and missing the playoffs five out of six years with the kind of resources this team has will do that. Someone will have to go.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 15, 2015 12:22:55 GMT -5
From the article: Of the four teams most connected to Hamels, the Red Sox might be most in the background. They added three pitchers — Wade Miley, Rick Porcello and Justin Masterson — last month and seem content to see how that trio improves their fortunes before jumping in full force on Hamels or maybe Lee.This writer seems much more in-tuned to reality than others.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2015 12:26:04 GMT -5
I think that's somewhat true actually. If they can't manage to win 80 games this year, I think his job is in jeopardy. Three last place finishes in four years and missing the playoffs five out of six years with the kind of resources this team has will do that. Someone will have to go. That's not how anyone should look at it, considering they probably could have won 80 games in all of those seasons if they didn't sell at the deadline.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 15, 2015 13:56:06 GMT -5
Yeah, that presser is a free space, but maybe a "Larry Lucchino's views/language on the Yankees have evolved from the Evil Empire days" story is another ... that seems like a hardy perennial, with the added bonus of "the Yankees aren't really that good anymore" schadenfreude and "Jeter's no longer there" angle this year. I bet someone does write that BC-in-trouble story, that's a pretty good call (although I disagree both that it's true and that it *should* be true) We already had that. Mike Napoli's sleep apenia surgery. <places token on that square>
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 15, 2015 15:01:45 GMT -5
I think that's somewhat true actually. If they can't manage to win 80 games this year, I think his job is in jeopardy. Three last place finishes in four years and missing the playoffs five out of six years with the kind of resources this team has will do that. Someone will have to go. That's not how anyone should look at it, considering they probably could have won 80 games in all of those seasons if they didn't sell at the deadline. Not really, as it turns out: In 2012 (69 wins), when they made the Nick Punto trade on 8/25, they were 57-74, which over a full season would be 70-71 wins. (They hadn't really officially punted until then) In 2014 (71 wins), when they made the Jake Peavy trade on 7/26, they were 47-57, which over a full season would be 73 wins. (If you'd rather use 7/31, they were even worse at 48-60, which extrapolates to 72 wins.) It's worth noting that at the trade deadline in 2012, they were over .500 (hence why they hadn't punted yet), but the collapse started pre-trade, when they went 7-15 from 8/1 to 8/24. This actually differs from my recollection as well, although they did play just 62-win baseball after the trade (holy crap). They played 67-win baseball after the Peavy trade. Anyway, "hatchet job" was the wrong term to use in hindsight. I just feel like if they're terrible without justification (like '14 Rangers-level injuries or something), then yeah, he might be in trouble, but there's no reason to expect that they'll be that bad, even if you don't think they're a world-series contender quite yet.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 15, 2015 15:40:46 GMT -5
I'm not 100% convinced Cherington is an elite GM yet, but he's not disastrously incompetent or anything so he's not going to lose his job two years after winning the World Series.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 15, 2015 15:43:43 GMT -5
I think that's somewhat true actually. If they can't manage to win 80 games this year, I think his job is in jeopardy. Three last place finishes in four years and missing the playoffs five out of six years with the kind of resources this team has will do that. Someone will have to go. That's not how anyone should look at it, considering they probably could have won 80 games in all of those seasons if they didn't sell at the deadline. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if they have to sell at the deadline again then Cherrington should get his resume together. I agree with Chris that given what they've done that's unlikely, but if it happens, look out. We can talk about hypotheticals all we want, but in the end everyone in this game is judged by actual results. Cherrington needs some this year.
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Post by charliezink16 on Jan 15, 2015 15:46:41 GMT -5
I'll let the mods decide if this is going to need it's own thread: Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago MLB talking pace-of-game changes with union; pitch clock coming to AA and AAA. Story with @jonmorosi.... fb.me/6Z5OIA7HN Looks like I can start watching Clay Buchholz's starts again.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2015 15:49:58 GMT -5
I'll let the mods decide if this is going to need it's own thread: Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago MLB talking pace-of-game changes with union; pitch clock coming to AA and AAA. Story with @jonmorosi.... fb.me/6Z5OIA7HN Looks like I can start watching Clay Buchholz's starts again. What is the penalty? No game should ever be decided by it. I hope they take many steps to not make it a big deal.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 15, 2015 15:51:12 GMT -5
I'm not 100% convinced Cherington is an elite GM yet, but he's not disastrously incompetent or anything so he's not going to lose his job two years after winning the World Series. How long does that last though especially in Boston where the expectation is to win the World Series every year. But in the end he like everyone else in this game is judged by results. 3 non-contending seasons out of 4 when you have the resources the Sox do gets you fired. Outside of 2013 the Red Sox have missed the playoffs every year since 2009. If they are deadline sellers again, Cherrington should get his resume ready.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 15, 2015 15:56:53 GMT -5
I'll let the mods decide if this is going to need it's own thread: Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago MLB talking pace-of-game changes with union; pitch clock coming to AA and AAA. Story with @jonmorosi.... fb.me/6Z5OIA7HN Looks like I can start watching Clay Buchholz's starts again. I don't recall Buchholz being particularly slow with noone on. It's those half a dozen throws to 1st before he finally sends one towards home that make his games so slow.
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Post by jmei on Jan 15, 2015 16:24:08 GMT -5
It makes for bad TV, but Buchholz is the one core starting pitcher who has actually tried to control the running game, and on some level I'd rather have that then Jon "never threw over to first base during the 2014 season" Lester.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2015 16:25:00 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 15, 2015 16:26:02 GMT -5
That's not how anyone should look at it, considering they probably could have won 80 games in all of those seasons if they didn't sell at the deadline. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if they have to sell at the deadline again then Cherrington should get his resume together. I agree with Chris that given what they've done that's unlikely, but if it happens, look out. We can talk about hypotheticals all we want, but in the end everyone in this game is judged by actual results. Cherrington needs some this year. Eh, while I agree in a general sense that Cherington's getting to the point that it's irrelevant what he inherited, so the results are his, I think it's kind of a red herring question right now ... I mean, if they are sub-80 games this year, it's highly likely something terrible has gone wrong, like 4 starters hurt for huge chunks of the year or something like that. It's too hypothetical to really talk about. In the initial point Chris was making, it's just media stirring stuff up ... Overall, I stick to my overall view on Cherington: he inherited a team that was in really bad shape, and he's been creative about transitioning from that team to a new team with more homegrown players. The World Series was a semi-flukey bonus that came early in the transition cycle, kind of like the first Patriots Super Bowl. I don't know that he's done enough to be an "elite" GM, but it's possible. We'll see over the next couple of years. If the Sox are contenders with a still-strengthening farm system over the next two years, hard not to start taking notice.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 15, 2015 16:29:47 GMT -5
It makes for bad TV, but Buchholz is the one core starting pitcher who has actually tried to control the running game, and on some level I'd rather have that then Jon "never threw over to first base during the 2014 season" Lester. Oh, Buchholz does that to control the running game? I could have sworn it was just a reflexive action to help him prepare to focus on the next pitch he's going to throw, kind of like a batter refastening his gloves. Definitely agree that Lester could be very frustrating in this regard, though.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 15, 2015 16:31:49 GMT -5
Cherington has definitely made some non-elite moves especially WRT trading for relievers. However, although it is not a popular narrative among sportswriters, some people are actually capable of learning from their mistakes and get better with experience.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2015 16:46:33 GMT -5
The Phillies are such a poorly run team
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 15, 2015 17:16:29 GMT -5
Looks like I can start watching Clay Buchholz's starts again. I don't recall Buchholz being particularly slow with noone on. It's those half a dozen throws to 1st before he finally sends one towards home that make his games so slow. FWIW, 4th in baseball last year at 25.6 seconds between pitches, per Fangraphs. That said, throwing over a lot would inflate that. They calculate by taking time of AB, dividing by number of pitches thrown.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2015 19:20:59 GMT -5
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TX
Veteran
Posts: 265
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Post by TX on Jan 15, 2015 19:30:35 GMT -5
Why would Amaro not be ridiculous with his demands with Scherzer and Shields still available? People are taking this Amaro meme way too far. I think he's doing just fine re Hamels.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2015 21:30:48 GMT -5
Why would Amaro not be ridiculous with his demands with Scherzer and Shields still available? People are taking this Amaro meme way too far. I think he's doing just fine re Hamels. You could say the same thing about him with Lee two years ago and last offseason. And now see how that worked out.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 15, 2015 22:52:03 GMT -5
Why would Amaro not be ridiculous with his demands with Scherzer and Shields still available? People are taking this Amaro meme way too far. I think he's doing just fine re Hamels. My spellchecker nearly exploded when I tried to use "Amaro" and "fine" in the same sentence.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 15, 2015 23:35:32 GMT -5
Why would Amaro not be ridiculous with his demands with Scherzer and Shields still available? People are taking this Amaro meme way too far. I think he's doing just fine re Hamels. We'll see what happens, but Amaro being a terrible GM is hardly a "meme". The Phillies have gone from one of the best teams in baseball to a garbage fire under his management.
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