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6/30-7/2 Red Sox vs Cubs Series Thread
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 1, 2014 21:43:44 GMT -5
Moving to 3rd had NOTHING to do with X's struggles at the plate. They didn't love his footwork at SS, felt he was a better fit at 3rd in the short (and probably long) run, so they moved him. He is a professional baseball player who was asked to move about 10 yards to his right. He will be fine. He is struggling because he is a 21 year old rookie who has spent a few months in the bigs and the league has had a chance to adjust to him (in his case apparently LOTS of sliders). Now it is his turn to adjust, this is baseball 101. Sick of people looking to make excuses to baby Xander and to blame the Sox. There are plenty of reasonable things to blame the Sox front office for, this is not one of them. If Drew were a 3B or there were someone like him available as a free agent to sign who was a 3B, Xander would have stayed at SS. I'm sick of this argument. We shouldn't have signed him, but Xander's struggles have nothing to do with moving. But I bet he's not getting better at SS since we signed Drew. I agree Drew has been a bust, but I personally think Xander is a third baseman for his career so I have no problem with them moving him to 3rd this early so he can learn the position that, in my opinion, he will be playing for most of his time as a member of the Sox. What I would do however is put Holt at SS and platoon Gomes/Nava in LF.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 1, 2014 21:45:45 GMT -5
All I was saying is the sole reason for Xander moving to 3rd is because Drew happened to be available and was a SS. It's not like they wouldn't have signed Drew if he were a 3B.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 1, 2014 21:46:39 GMT -5
Our offenes is offensive
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Post by wildcardwillie on Jul 1, 2014 21:49:01 GMT -5
Tonight I officially give up on this season
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 1, 2014 21:50:48 GMT -5
We need to play the Cubs more often. Good times. We need to score 1 run in 2 games more often.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 1, 2014 21:52:12 GMT -5
When do the Pats report to training camp?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 1, 2014 21:55:44 GMT -5
Trade or release everyone not named Xander, Brock or Mookie.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 1, 2014 21:57:08 GMT -5
@peteabe: #RedSox have scored 2 or less runs in 12 of their last 17 games.
THAT BABIP, RISP LUCK.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 1, 2014 22:10:33 GMT -5
@peteabe: #RedSox have scored 2 or less runs in 12 of their last 17 games. THAT BABIP, RISP LUCK. SELL SELL SELL SELL,
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Post by templeusox on Jul 1, 2014 22:11:11 GMT -5
100% of this team's energy right now should be geared towards making Xander right again. You have to move him back to shortstop and bench Drew. The season is a lost cause and Drew is a sunk cost. It was a mistake, but it can still be fixed. We still have a chance to look back at this colossal personnel failure and laugh like when the Mets moved Jose Reyes to 2nd base to make room for Kaz Matsui.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 1, 2014 22:19:35 GMT -5
100% of this team's energy right now should be geared towards making Xander right again. You have to move him back to shortstop and bench Drew. The season is a lost cause and Drew is a sunk cost. It was a mistake, but it can still be fixed. We still have a chance to look back at this colossal personnel failure and laugh like when the Mets moved Jose Reyes to 2nd base to make room for Kaz Matsui. Careful man. The only real problem is he can't hit a slider....or causation...or something...something..blah..blah..blah
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jul 1, 2014 22:20:14 GMT -5
Great. There's only one way to really know and that is to compare his numbers at both positions. I don't have to go through that exercise because you both know the answer. Keep telling yourself there is/should not be a problem with the change. I don't need your confirmations to know the truth. GO look at the stats I just posted... HE is TERRIBLE AT HITTING SLIDERS... Until he fixes that issue, PITCHERS WILL STILL THROW HIM SLIDERS and get him out again and again and again IT takes a while for a book to get out on a player... That book is now out on him, and his inability to hit sliders Grand salami, I looked at your numbers and then I went to the Brooks Baseball site, and I don't think you're interpreting the numbers correctly (although it could be me so I included the link). According to the data I found, it doesn't look like Bogaerts is seeing appreciably more breaking balls (curves or sliders) in June than he was in May; the problem is that for some reason he is now swinging at almost twice as many of them. www.brooksbaseball.net/h_outcome.php?player=593428&gFilt=&&time=month&minmax=ci&var=swing&s_type=16&startDate=01/01/2014&endDate=01/01/2015I still think the problem is that he's pressing. Think about it. He's 21 years old. He has worked very hard and learned his job at a stunning rate, done everything he was asked to do, and by May, he was arguably playing at an all-star level. So what did the Red Sox do? They hired a long-time veteran to take his job. I think he's just trying too hard right now. That's not a good thing in any job, but it is an especially bad thing in baseball.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 1, 2014 22:26:08 GMT -5
Ryan Hannable ?@ryanhannable 3m When asked of his performances of late, through an interpreter, Koji Uehara said, "I think it's a little bit of fatigue." Didn't elaborate.
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Post by elguapo on Jul 1, 2014 22:41:27 GMT -5
Ryan Hannable ?@ryanhannable 3m When asked of his performances of late, through an interpreter, Koji Uehara said, "I think it's a little bit of fatigue." Didn't elaborate. Except the literal translation of his response was, "I'm tired of this s---!"
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Post by malynn19 on Jul 1, 2014 22:41:52 GMT -5
Professional or not Xander is only 21 years old. Put him where he belongs, SS. If the Red Sox thought he would be a 3B why play him at SS throughout the minors? Pedey went to 2B, Mookie to 2B and Cechinni went to 3B. But their Crown Jewel who has never played 3B in the minors has to look over his back because of Stephen "I broke up a no hitter" Drew, come on. This kid has been playing SS all his life, he wears #2 cause of Ellsbury? NO cause of that Scrub in NY and he is being replaced by an inferior player, it doesn't matter that Drew is better defensively, what matters is that Xander has to accommodate for him and not the other way around.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 1, 2014 22:53:01 GMT -5
Just to be clear, we are saying all we have to do is move bogaerts back to SS and he'll start hitting 300/400/500?
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Post by malynn19 on Jul 1, 2014 23:04:14 GMT -5
Just to be clear, we are saying all we have to do is move bogaerts back to SS and he'll start hitting 300/400/500? All I AM saying is that the Red Sox should make his transition to the Majors as smooth as possible. Let's just see what he is capable of when he's in his comfort zone. 310/390/510 sounds about right. LETS DO IT BC!!
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 1, 2014 23:06:10 GMT -5
Brock Holt can play seventeen positions, Betts can become an outfielder in a matter of weeks, but the Red Sox broke Xander by moving him from short to third? It's absurd. Completely ridiculous.
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 1, 2014 23:08:24 GMT -5
Personally I just don't see it. His strengths defensively are his reflexes and his arm strength. His range is average and if he gets bigger, like he will, it will get worse. The biggest problem I've seen is his footwork. He just doesn't have very smooth actions or smooth feet. I have seen him play all year and I just don't think he is a major league shortstop. I think they are doing the right thing by moving him to third because I think he can be an above-average defender at that position.
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Post by malynn19 on Jul 1, 2014 23:12:34 GMT -5
Brock Holt can play seventeen positions, Betts can become an outfielder in a matter of weeks, but the Red Sox broke Xander by moving him from short to third? It's absurd. Completely ridiculous. Brock Holt and Mookie are just happy to be there, Xander has been groomed to be the next superstar. So why him? Why does he have to defer to Drew? Why did Drew had to "speak" to him and tell everyone that they are on the same page. I guess everyone is build the same, lol. Maybe its because he is the Pride and Joy of his country and he sees the move as a demotion, no one, not you or I can tell with him, but he was doing very good before Mr. No Hitter Breaker was signed, money they could of used on Cruz, since they can't hit if their lives depends on it atm.
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Post by malynn19 on Jul 1, 2014 23:15:36 GMT -5
Personally I just don't see it. His strengths defensively are his reflexes and his arm strength. His range is average and if he gets bigger, like he will, it will get worse. The biggest problem I've seen is his footwork. He just doesn't have very smooth actions or smooth feet. I have seen him play all year and I just don't think he is a major league shortstop. I think they are doing the right thing by moving him to third because I think he can be an above-average defender at that position. So why didn't the Red Sox multi million dollar front office and scouting department see this? They should of moved him at AAA or maybe AA, glad the experts are seeing this now and have help the Red Sox make this decision, even tho they still see Xander as a SS.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 1, 2014 23:17:42 GMT -5
Capuano, Hill, and Resop are gone. Almanzar is back. All in one day! July 1, a new era. That has to mean something. A youth movement.
If the A's wanted Rich Hill, they will really want Breslow.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 1, 2014 23:17:47 GMT -5
The Xander Bogaerts stuff is nonsense. He's in a major slump and it's not because he's the 3b, rather than the SS.
The fact of the matter is that this kid is only 21 years old. It's not that hard to believe the Xander's first season in the majors will probably wind up with a BA around .260 with 15 homers or so. It's not surprising that he's having ups and downs. He's not an established superstar.
The Xander that everybody likes to project still most likely exists in the future, not the present. You get glimpses like we did last post-season and for a few stretches so far this season or for the stretches that I anticipate we'll see later this season, but you're not going to get a superstar performance out of this kid right away. He's going to have a great career arc, but he's on the bottom of that arc working his way up.
I anticipate we'll see a much better season from Xander in 2015 and at some point in the not so distant future, the light will come on and we'll see .300 with 30 homers, a .900 OPS, etc.
And it'll probably be the same for Mookie Betts as it has been so far for Bradley.
They'll both be better next year. Betts has a more promising offensive future than Bradley of course, but I think Bradley will eventually hit enough to be an asset.
So you have struggling rookies and veterans having mediocre to lousy years. That's a good formula to have a pathetic offense, especially when, outside of Papi and Napoli, there's absolutely no power and very little speed. It's tough to score when it takes four singles to accomplish a run.
As far as Xander defensively goes, why would he play anywhere but SS in the minors? He hasn't played himself out of SS, but as time goes on, it's obvious that Xander can be a serviceable SS, but he won't be the second coming of Omar Vizquel. So the only way Bogaerts winds up at SS is if the Sox have a major offensive asset at 3b (which is what they hope Cecchini or Middlebrooks becomes). If they don't Bogaerts winds up at 3b and Marrero at SS.
It's kind of telling that in the leaked Astros documents the Sox were willing to part with Marrero for Norris. With Iglesias still around, I would have thought the Sox would have eventually planned for Iglesias at SS and Bogaerts at 3b, but with Iglesias dealt instead, the possibility became Marrero at SS with Bogaerts at 3b. Again, this as a hedge if Cecchini doesn't develop power or WMB can't figure out how to get on base.
Watching these guys struggle makes me appreciate how good Lynn and Rice were in 1975, how good Nomar was in 1997, and how good Pedroia was in 2007.
And yes, at this point, with this season totally lost and Drew totally lost at the plate, there's no reason Bogaerts shouldn't be shifted back to SS to continue his defensive development. Holt should be the 3b at this point and until something better comes along the OF alignment should be Nava/Gomes in LF, Bradley in CF (unless the Sox want to send Bradley down to AAA to get his confidence back and put Torres in CF) and Betts in RF. (This is assuming that Victorino doesn't come back this season.)
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 1, 2014 23:17:51 GMT -5
When Pedroia first came up and struggled there was no outcry of excuses for him. When did this site get so thin-skinned about prospects? He is a young kid going through a slump. Why can't that just be as it is? People certain people are just looking for reasons to blame the front office and blame Stephen Drew when really it is on Xander. Cut the crap with the special treatment just because he is a super talented young Red Sox player. He is young and going through a slump, it happens to even the best of rookies at times. Stop freaking out and trying to blame other people, it is absurd!
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 1, 2014 23:19:46 GMT -5
Personally I just don't see it. His strengths defensively are his reflexes and his arm strength. His range is average and if he gets bigger, like he will, it will get worse. The biggest problem I've seen is his footwork. He just doesn't have very smooth actions or smooth feet. I have seen him play all year and I just don't think he is a major league shortstop. I think they are doing the right thing by moving him to third because I think he can be an above-average defender at that position. So why didn't the Red Sox multi million dollar front office and scouting department see this? They should of moved him at AAA or maybe AA, glad the experts are seeing this now and have help the Red Sox make this decision, even tho they still see Xander as a SS. My post had nothing to do with the Red Sox front office or decision makers or scouts. I was giving my opinion on his defensive abilities, that's all. In my eyes, he's best suited for 3rd base.
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