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7/4-7/6 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Jul 2, 2014 21:17:54 GMT -5
7/4 Red Sox (LHP Jon Lester 9-7 2.92) vs. Orioles (RHP Miguel Gonzalez 4-5 4.56) 1:35 pm ET, NESN/WEEI7/4 Red Sox (RHP John Lackey 9-5 3.62) vs. Orioles (RHP Ubaldo Jimenez 3-8 4.31) 7:15 pm ET, FOX/WEEI7/6 Red Sox (RHP Jake Peavy 1-7 4.82) vs. Orioles (TBD) 1:35 pm ET, NESN/WEEIMLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsWeatherSeries Thread Disclaimer: The SoxProspects Moderators will be somewhat liberal in policing the Red Sox "Series" Threads. Some of the Ground Rules are applied loosely in here, as we understand that there is a tendency to want to react (or overreact) to every play of a Sox game with one line reactionary posts. Those posts are okay in the Red Sox Series threads to a point - we certainly appreciate the passion. Just try not to overdo it, and try to maintain some semblance of reason. In addition, please don't let those type of posts spill over to other more substantive threads, where they may be deleted. -The Management
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 4, 2014 9:25:59 GMT -5
I will be representing The Xander Bogaerts Cult at the games this weekend. On my way into town.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 4, 2014 9:59:01 GMT -5
I'm really interested to see the Sox hitters back in action. I was hoping the Mookie HR would spark them a bit, show them how to focus and lock in so they wouldn't be fouling off or dribbling so many good pitches that any other year would be hits.
Since Cherrington won't take off the rose colored glasses and make some moves, the next best strategy is to move Mookie to the #2 hole and hope he gets hot.
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Post by taftreign on Jul 4, 2014 10:05:29 GMT -5
MLB.com has the Sox game with the O's postponed already. Didn't take long.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,017
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 4, 2014 10:07:30 GMT -5
Current forecast is for the rain to start between 3 PM and 4 PM, and pretty much not stop until 2 or 3 AM.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 4, 2014 10:34:15 GMT -5
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 4, 2014 11:01:12 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 14:55:39 GMT -5
As we approach the All-Star Break, the scathing critiques of what caused the wheels to come off this team are starting to stream in. bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2014/07/ben_cherington_needs_to_fix_3_miscalculations"Ben Cherington did his level best to remove the rose-colored champagne goggles in time for hot stove season...like the rest of us, fell into the trap of believing the team looked better than it actually was." Lauber goes on to cite three main causes of the team's collapse: 1. Relying too much on Shane Victorino "Counting on him (Victorino) for 100-plus games in right field, to say nothing of filling in if rookie center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. needed more time in Triple A, was the height of naivety." 2. Not providing competition for Will Middlebrooks The team's scouting reports on Middlebrooks are referred to as a "distortion of reality." 3. Dragging their feet in negotiations with Jon Lester The "four-year, $70 million overture should’ve been made in February, not at the end of March. If the Sox had acted sooner, Lester could’ve rejected their initial offer and left time to make a more realistic bid before the season began."
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Post by larrycook on Jul 4, 2014 15:00:11 GMT -5
As we approach the All-Star Break, the scathing critiques of what caused the wheels to come off this team are starting to stream in. bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2014/07/ben_cherington_needs_to_fix_3_miscalculations"Ben Cherington did his level best to remove the rose-colored champagne goggles in time for hot stove season...like the rest of us, fell into the trap of believing the team looked better than it actually was." Lauber goes on to cite three main causes of the team's collapse: 1. Relying too much on Shane Victorino "Counting on him (Victorino) for 100-plus games in right field, to say nothing of filling in if rookie center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. needed more time in Triple A, was the height of naivety." 2. Not providing competition for Will Middlebrooks The team's scouting reports on Middlebrooks are referred to as a "distortion of reality." 3. Dragging their feet in negotiations with Jon Lester The "four-year, $70 million overture should’ve been made in February, not at the end of March. If the Sox had acted sooner, Lester could’ve rejected their initial offer and left time to make a more realistic bid before the season began." I think we all knew going into the season that Victorino playing more than 100 games was a huge stretch. And we all knew Bradley was going to need time to adjust. In my mind the Gomes/Nava platoon collapsing was biggest shocker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 15:05:12 GMT -5
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Post by mredsox89 on Jul 4, 2014 15:10:34 GMT -5
Nava still has an OBP north of .350 vs. righties, Gomes at .415 vs. lefties. It's just the fact that Gomes has had just as many AB's vs. righties as lefties, in which his OBP is .237.
Demoting Nava and instilling Gomes as the "everyday" LF for a period of time was the main problem.
Compound that with JBJ not hitting and Victorino's injury and it has been a near worst case scenario in the OF save for Holt
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 4, 2014 15:22:38 GMT -5
Nava still has an OBP north of .350 vs. righties, Gomes at .415 vs. lefties. It's just the fact that Gomes has had just as many AB's vs. righties as lefties, in which his OBP is .237. Demoting Nava and instilling Gomes as the "everyday" LF for a period of time was the main problem.
Compound that with JBJ not hitting and Victorino's injury and it has been a near worst case scenario in the OF save for Holt Giving up on a proven hitter like Nava was a mistake. Not sure it would have made much of a difference though.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 4, 2014 15:25:48 GMT -5
Django, did you just roll over and wake up after a 10 year sleep? The Sox have taken it all 3 times during that time. What exactly would satisfy you?
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 4, 2014 15:29:06 GMT -5
As we approach the All-Star Break, the scathing critiques of what caused the wheels to come off this team are starting to stream in. bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2014/07/ben_cherington_needs_to_fix_3_miscalculations"Ben Cherington did his level best to remove the rose-colored champagne goggles in time for hot stove season...like the rest of us, fell into the trap of believing the team looked better than it actually was." Lauber goes on to cite three main causes of the team's collapse: 1. Relying too much on Shane Victorino "Counting on him (Victorino) for 100-plus games in right field, to say nothing of filling in if rookie center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. needed more time in Triple A, was the height of naivety." 2. Not providing competition for Will Middlebrooks The team's scouting reports on Middlebrooks are referred to as a "distortion of reality." 3. Dragging their feet in negotiations with Jon Lester The "four-year, $70 million overture should’ve been made in February, not at the end of March. If the Sox had acted sooner, Lester could’ve rejected their initial offer and left time to make a more realistic bid before the season began." #1 is absolutely true. Victorino's injuries were all too predictable and the team didn't prepare an appropriate contingency. #2 is correct as well. I was a big advocate of resigning Drew prior to the season and I think it was a mistake not doing that. What does #3 have to do with the teams struggles? Lester is pitching great. Its fine to critique the decision, but it has nothing to do with the teams collapse. Other big things contributing to the collapse: - Giving up on Nava too soon. - Not recognizing what Grady Sizemore is soon enough. - Going with Herrera over Holt when it was apparent Holt was the better player long before his breakout.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 15:54:15 GMT -5
^I would add to that: -Entering the season without a legitimate leadoff hitter. -Entering the season without a right handed centerfielder to platoon with JBJ. -Everything having anything to do with first base (not signing Abreu, resigning Napoli, not selling high on Carp)
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 4, 2014 16:00:27 GMT -5
^I would add to that: -Entering the season without a legitimate leadoff hitter. -Entering the season without a right handed centerfielder to platoon with JBJ. -Everything having anything to do with first base (not signing Abreu, resigning Napoli, not selling high on Carp) So you think re-signing napoli was a mistake? GTFO
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Post by Guidas on Jul 4, 2014 16:01:51 GMT -5
DEATH TO THE MFOs!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:04:25 GMT -5
^I would add to that: -Entering the season without a legitimate leadoff hitter. -Entering the season without a right handed centerfielder to platoon with JBJ. -Everything having anything to do with first base (not signing Abreu, resigning Napoli, not selling high on Carp) So you think re-signing napoli was a mistake? GTFO I'd rather have had Abreu, both now and for the next 5 years.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 4, 2014 16:05:54 GMT -5
So you think re-signing napoli was a mistake? GTFO I'd rather have had Abreu, both now and for the next 5 years. and you have said that 700 times this season, and we all explained why that was not possible to sign him when the deadline WAS WHEN WE WERE PLAYING IN THE WORLD SERIES
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:11:04 GMT -5
I'd rather have had Abreu, both now and for the next 5 years. and you have said that 700 times this season, and we all explained why that was not possible to sign him when the deadline WAS WHEN WE WERE PLAYING IN THE WORLD SERIES And, if you've truly been following the discussion then you'd also have read this, which directly contradicts your opinion of the situation.
April 12, 2014
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/04/rosenthals-latest-sandoval-pirates-cubs-thornburg.html
msn.foxsports.com/mlb/video?vid=e6f35129-e1e2-4d30-bd81-5783468b2cb4
"Rosenthal says that five teams bid upwards of $60MM for Jose Abreu: the White Sox, Astros, Rockies, Brewers and Red Sox. The Red Sox still wanted to keep Mike Napoli, however, which would have meant that Abreu might have started the season in the minors if he had signed with them."
www.chatsports.com/boston-red-sox/a/Red-Sox-in-Jose-Dariel-Abreus-final-three-2-8650121
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 4, 2014 16:12:02 GMT -5
And why the hell would he sign here and start in the minors when he could get a starting MLB gig on other teams?
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 4, 2014 16:12:58 GMT -5
I hope one of the Globalists on here notices that the correct date for games 1 and 2 is 7/5.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:16:23 GMT -5
Why don't you ask Abreu why the Red Sox were among his three finalists before asking that question?
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 4, 2014 16:20:45 GMT -5
As they say, hind sight is always 20-20, but I think the team management deserves some criticism. They took too many risks and did it with too little evidence that the risks were reasonable.
-- Bradley had not proven himself as a major league hitter. Victorino was fragile. The Gomes-Nava platoon was almost too good to be true last year and should not have been expected to repeat. The team started the season without a decent leadoff hitter, and without adequate power in the lineup. They also made a mistake with the catcher position. Salty was better and should have been kept, or they should have given Vasquez a shot at it. I bet right now he would be an improvement.
-- It appears the only backup plan to either Middlebrooks or Bogaerts not performing was to sign Drew. That wasn't a very good plan. The panicking over Bogaerts' fielding, prompting the Drew signing definitely deserves severe criticism.
-- There were some obvious alternatives. Nelson Cruz was out there as a FA until just before spring training and the Orioles got him for $8 million. I think they should have paid Ellsbury what it would taken to keep him. I think they should do the same with Lester. They should have kept Boagerts at SS. They lucked out with Holt and should take advantage of the only bit of luck they have had. He should be at 3B and Bogaerts should be at SS. Betts, Bradley and Nava should be the primary OFs with Gomes going against LHPs only.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 4, 2014 16:24:12 GMT -5
Why don't you ask Abreu why the Red Sox were among his three finalists before asking that question? Put your self in his shoes, and pretend you are not a red sox fan... Your options are A: sign a contract and go straight to the majors, or B spend a year or more in the minors until 1B opens up in Bos.... You would be insane to pick BOS
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