Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:24:43 GMT -5
Wouldn't Cruz have cost us a draft pick? I think everyone this past offseason was on board with keeping draft picks.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 4, 2014 16:27:02 GMT -5
Django, did you just roll over and wake up after a 10 year sleep? The Sox have taken it all 3 times during that time. What exactly would satisfy you? I don't know what would satisfy him, but what would satisfy me is if everyone blocked his messages just like I did.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:28:37 GMT -5
Why don't you ask Abreu why the Red Sox were among his three finalists before asking that question? Put your self in his shoes, and pretend you are not a red sox fan... Your options are A: sign a contract and go straight to the majors, or B spend a year or more in the minors until 1B opens up in Bos.... You would be insane to pick BOS First of all, Napoli had yet to be resigned when Abreu signed. So, in order to truly put yourself in Abreu's shoes, you have to take this fact into consideration along with the fact that many observers took it for granted that Napoli would not be extended a qualifying offer. Second, looking at the Red Sox vs. the White Sox, if you were Abreu at the end of the 2013 season, you would have seen a much better chance of winning in Boston than in Chicago. Abreu obviously took these considerations seriously or the Red Sox would not have been a finalist. Does this mean that I'm opposed to Napoli being on the team? Of course not. I just would have preferred Abreu. Take a look yourself at the first base alternatives available either via free agency or trade over the next few years and you'll see where I'm coming from.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 4, 2014 16:36:20 GMT -5
Django: No it doesn't at all. To get your binky, they could lie to Abreu, lie to Napoli, or tell the truth, which they did, and hope that it would prove acceptable to the Cuban. The other options were to tell Abreu the job was his, and tell Napoli the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:47:34 GMT -5
No it doesn't at all. To get your binky, they could lie to Abreu, lie to Napoli, or tell the truth, which they did, and hope that it would prove acceptable to the Cuban. The other options were to tell Abreu the job was his, and tell Napoli the same. There is no question if impossibility here. Nobody disputes that the Red Sox were a team Abreu seriously considered signing with. And no, I don't think it's necessary to lie to a major leaguer in order to gain production from him. They're ball players. They're going to respect honesty - including the honestly stated need to earn their playing time - more than anything else.
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Post by godot on Jul 4, 2014 16:58:23 GMT -5
Django: No it doesn't at all. To get your binky, they could lie to Abreu, lie to Napoli, or tell the truth, which they did, and hope that it would prove acceptable to the Cuban. The other options were to tell Abreu the job was his, and tell Napoli the same. You are a moderator. Set an example and treat people with respect. What is with this "to get your binky stuff" and "were you asleep the last ten years". It is condescending for a moderator and abuse of your "position".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 17:01:12 GMT -5
Django: No it doesn't at all. To get your binky, they could lie to Abreu, lie to Napoli, or tell the truth, which they did, and hope that it would prove acceptable to the Cuban. The other options were to tell Abreu the job was his, and tell Napoli the same. You are a moderator. Set an example and treat people with respect. What is with this "to get your binky stuff" and "were you asleep the last ten years". It is condescending for a moderator and abuse of your "position". Godot, it's okay. I myself have referred to Abreu as "my binky." As for the other stuff Norm says, I take it with stride.
Discussion of Abreu upsets some people because they realize what could have been. There's an interesting quote in this article:
www.si.com/mlb/2014/04/09/jose-abreu-chicago-white-sox-cuba
"He (Abreu) can really hit, there's a comfort factor there because of his track record, and ownership groups are mad because they didn't sign Puig and have since seen what he's done."
I suppose the civil discussion here might revolve around what peoples' realistic expectation of Napoli's future with the team are. Do we see him playing into his late thirties with the team? If not, then what do we see on the horizon at first base? This, more than anything else, is what irks me about missing out on Abreu.
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 4, 2014 17:44:03 GMT -5
Let's stay on topic. If you want to argue about a player the Sox maybe had a chance at 10 months ago, do it on a different thread please.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 4, 2014 17:47:43 GMT -5
Django: No it doesn't at all. To get your binky, they could lie to Abreu, lie to Napoli, or tell the truth, which they did, and hope that it would prove acceptable to the Cuban. The other options were to tell Abreu the job was his, and tell Napoli the same. You are a moderator. Set an example and treat people with respect. What is with this "to get your binky stuff" and "were you asleep the last ten years". It is condescending for a moderator and abuse of your "position". You don't like Norm, got it. He seems pretty level headed to me. I've called out more than one mod but it's a tough job and I think this is a personality thing. You show lots of knowledge for the game. Not sure why you can't let this go.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 4, 2014 18:01:01 GMT -5
Doesn't upset me because I never expected it to happen, not during the WS run. That's completely unrealistic. As I said above, they would have had to lie to someone if they were to sign Abreu. There is no hiding this stuff anymore. Having figured that stuff early on, your scenario is lost on me. It was never a realistic signing to me, ever.
Add: And Godot, we can go straight to the thinly veiled dislike of Henry if we want to talk respect.
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Post by zil on Jul 4, 2014 18:27:58 GMT -5
I don't understand the Nelson Cruz complaints. He's a terrible fielder, he would've cost us a draft pick, and he's having what is obviously a fluke season. I'm not getting up in arms over a now 34 year old corner outfielder due for regression.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 4, 2014 18:36:04 GMT -5
I think rewarding healthy, productive and reasonably priced players who helped you win a championship is good policy.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 4, 2014 19:22:51 GMT -5
I don't understand the Nelson Cruz complaints. He's a terrible fielder, he would've cost us a draft pick, and he's having what is obviously a fluke season. I'm not getting up in arms over a now 34 year old corner outfielder due for regression. The Orioles are close to making the post season and he is a key reason for that. And the Sox are going to be watching.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 4, 2014 19:25:37 GMT -5
I don't understand the Nelson Cruz complaints. He's a terrible fielder, he would've cost us a draft pick, and he's having what is obviously a fluke season. I'm not getting up in arms over a now 34 year old corner outfielder due for regression. The Orioles are close to making the post season and he is a key reason for that. And the Sox are going to be watching. you forget, that excellent draft we had this year would not have happened if we signed him because we lose the pick and the $$$, and he is a butcher in the field
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 4, 2014 19:58:41 GMT -5
I don't understand the Nelson Cruz complaints. He's a terrible fielder, he would've cost us a draft pick, and he's having what is obviously a fluke season. I'm not getting up in arms over a now 34 year old corner outfielder due for regression. The Orioles are close to making the post season and he is a key reason for that. And the Sox are going to be watching. The Red Sox had the most productive LF in baseball last year for under 6m. Both players came back this year for the same price and haven't produced. No reason to sign Cruz this past winter. The O's aren't in the playoffs year yet, and the Red Sox did win the World Series with those two last year. I'm still bummed we sold RUTH to the Yankees.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 20:11:35 GMT -5
Abreu with #27 (still on pace for 50+) and meaningless RBIs #68 and #69.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 4, 2014 20:12:38 GMT -5
Abreu with #27 (still on pace for 50+) and meaningless RBIs #68 and #69. WE GET IT you love him, we do not need daily updates on him
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jul 4, 2014 20:14:09 GMT -5
Abreu with #27 (still on pace for 50+) and meaningless RBIs #68 and #69. Having trouble parsing how this fits in the Red Sox Orioles game thread. Or for that matter all previous Red Sox game threads.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 20:27:26 GMT -5
"A good friend of mine used to say, 'This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains.' Think about that for a while."
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 4, 2014 20:42:36 GMT -5
Abreu with #27 (still on pace for 50+) and meaningless RBIs #68 and #69. This is not a thread about Abreu whatsoever. Move it to a different thread, write a letter to John Henry, blog about it on your own site, I don't care. Just stop spamming Red Sox threads with your obnoxious agenda. Grow up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 20:54:17 GMT -5
Arthur claims one. Tomorrow it's Day/Night. Lester/Gonzalez, Lackey/Ubaldo. Enjoy the fireworks everyone.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 4, 2014 21:24:10 GMT -5
So you think re-signing napoli was a mistake? GTFO I'd rather have had Abreu, both now and for the next 5 years. Abreu has pretty bad K/BB numbers and an unsustainably high HR/FB rate. Hot start aside, it's not at all clear to me that he represents better value than Mike Napoli.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 4, 2014 21:35:42 GMT -5
I don't understand the Nelson Cruz complaints. He's a terrible fielder, he would've cost us a draft pick, and he's having what is obviously a fluke season. I'm not getting up in arms over a now 34 year old corner outfielder due for regression. Every year a few plays sign tiny contracts and end up performing at dramatically higher levels than expected, because it's baseball and stuff happens that can't be predicted. And usually it's easy to look at these signings as the pure flukes that they are and not worry about them. But of course when your team sucks, that's when the "WELL WHY DIDN'T THE DUMB IDIOTS IN OUR FRONT OFFICE GET THIS GUY?!" outrage begins...
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 4, 2014 21:43:11 GMT -5
This is not the Abreu thread, joker. (And it's not the Nelson Cruz thread.)
It's the Andres Torres thread.
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Post by zil on Jul 4, 2014 21:44:28 GMT -5
I don't understand the Nelson Cruz complaints. He's a terrible fielder, he would've cost us a draft pick, and he's having what is obviously a fluke season. I'm not getting up in arms over a now 34 year old corner outfielder due for regression. The Orioles are close to making the post season and he is a key reason for that. And the Sox are going to be watching. So they should've used their psychic powers to figure out that Cruz was going to have a career year at age 33? He's posting his highest walk rate since 2009, his lowest strikeout rate since 2010, and the highest ISO of his career. Sometimes good process yields bad results and sometimes bad process yields good results. Just because good process lacks a 100% success rate doesn't mean they should abandon good process. Last year the Red Sox won the World Series employing a very successful Nava/Gomes platoon. Unlike the Orioles, they didn't have an open DH slot to mitigate Cruz's defense. There was literally zero reason sacrifice a first round pick to invest in an aging slugger who was never all that good in the first place. Cruz didn't sit around until the very end of the offseason by mistake. He's really not that appealing an asset. This is going to blow your mind, but 2014 isn't a tactical shift from what they were doing last year. They did the same exact thing each offseason. They gambled on veterans inked to short-term deals without draft compensation attached. They hoped our veterans would keep us competitive until our extremely talented farm system matured. It worked last year. It didn't work this year. That doesn't change the fundamental fact that both 2013 and 2014 are bridge years. That Cherington line about "The next great Red Sox team" isn't just a tag line. That's their actual plan. They're very transparent about what they've been doing.
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