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Post by bluechip on Jul 31, 2014 22:44:11 GMT -5
For now:
1. Buchholz 2. Kelly 3. RDLR 4. Webster 5. Workman
Though Buchholz will probably go on the DL soon and wright or Ranaudo will probably get the spot.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 1, 2014 0:35:05 GMT -5
This offseason, we are going to have lots of money and only starting pitching spend it on, so why not get the best guy on the market? We have enough money to get both him and Lester and he would be the best pitcher we've had in years, much better than Lester. I'd go 7/168 and I think that would get it done. Greetings both him and Lester would make us serious WS contenders next year while also taking away from the 2 other best teams in the AL(not really a consideration, Just an added bonus)
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2014 8:18:33 GMT -5
I haven't checked yet, but I imagine some innings limits may come into play here. Maybe we'll go to a 6 man rotation in September.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2014 8:20:37 GMT -5
I think Scherzer is a disaster waiting to happen like Verlander and Lincecum. He relies on the heat a little too much.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 1, 2014 8:26:42 GMT -5
I would prefer Ranaudo pitching to Kelly or Wright. Especially Wright. I actually want no part of Kelly in the rotation so if putting him there tickets him for the pen next year then so be it.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 1, 2014 8:33:06 GMT -5
I would prefer Ranaudo pitching to Kelly or Wright. Especially Wright. I actually want no part of Kelly in the rotation so if putting him there tickets him for the pen next year then so be it. Kelly is absolutely in the rotation. Cherington said at the press conference that part of his goal in trading the Two Johns was to get an MLB starter in return. Like it or not, the Red Sox see Kelly in the rotation.
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Post by elguapo on Aug 1, 2014 8:47:36 GMT -5
Workman to the pen --
1. Buchholz 2. Kelly 3. De La Rosa 4. Webster 5. Ranaudo/Wright
It's unfathomable that Wright has a WHIP<1.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 1, 2014 9:15:58 GMT -5
I can't see this team going 7 year on anyone over 28, if that. I think it does behoove this organization - or any with their budget - to take a risk on a long term contract with a premium free agent at market value every 3-4 years but personally I think you do this with a position player as you get more day to day value and they tend to have more predictable decline rates.
Personally, if I'm going into those waters, I'd take a run at Lester at market value for 5 years and offer him a 6th year option based on completing 180 innings in year 5.
The other alternative, which this team doesn't do but which I love in a risk-taking move with a pitcher, is to offer an out clause after year 3. If a pitcher like Scherzer (who appears to be all about the money) who will be 33 after is still near the top of his game he will opt out as market rates will be higher (watch Grienke do this next year - he'll be 33 I believe, so younger than Shields). The Sox would love it if he did at 33 no matter how go he is at that point. The nasty bit, of course, is if he blows up before that you own him for the full 7 years at full market value.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 1, 2014 9:28:55 GMT -5
I can't see this team going 7 year on anyone over 28, if that. I think it does behoove this organization - or any with their budget - to take a risk on a long term contract with a premium free agent at market value every 3-4 years but personally I think you do this with a position player as you get more day to day value and they tend to have more predictable decline rates. Personally, if I'm going into those waters, I'd take a run at Lester at market value for 5 years and offer him a 6th year option based on completing 180 innings in year 5. The other alternative, which this team doesn't do but which I love in a risk-taking move with a pitcher, is to offer an out clause after year 3. If a pitcher like Scherzer (who appears to be all about the money) who will be 33 after is still near the top of his game he will opt out as market rates will be higher (watch Grienke do this next year - he'll be 33 I believe, so younger than Shields). The Sox would love it if he did at 33 no matter how go he is at that point. The nasty bit, of course, is if he blows up before that you own him for the full 7 years at full market value. I usually hate these clauses for teams, but I actually think this kind of clause would be smart with the Red Sox because they've shown enough restraint in the past, and they don't cave into the PR like the Yankees do
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Post by Guidas on Aug 1, 2014 9:30:52 GMT -5
I think Scherzer is a disaster waiting to happen like Verlander and Lincecum. He relies on the heat a little too much. I think he's only thrown one complete game in his entire MLB career, if that, too, so he's a 7 inning guy - not a huge concern but maybe not the horse Lester and Sheilds are.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 1, 2014 9:31:12 GMT -5
The Tigers acquisition of Price certainly provides them with a very good fall back option if the Scherzer price goes beyond where they comfortable. The Red Sox need a #1 and a #2 starter for 2015, but I suspect that Scherzer and obviously Lester will both be way beyond where the Red Sox are willing to go.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 1, 2014 9:35:22 GMT -5
Workman to the pen -- 1. Buchholz 2. Kelly 3. De La Rosa 4. Webster 5. Ranaudo/Wright It's unfathomable that Wright has a WHIP<1. Agree with this. Workman would be better in the pen. They can use a 6 man rotation with kids and get both Renaldo (just kidding) and Wright some starts. You cannot ignore what Wright has done. He may be as good or better than any of the highly rated kids. He certainly acquitted himself nicely in 2-3 opportunities last year in Boston.
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Post by elguapo on Aug 1, 2014 9:38:51 GMT -5
I'm not really down on Workman as a starter but he's already had a good look there and some of the others haven't.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 1, 2014 9:45:30 GMT -5
It is definitely not a good thing if the Red Sox rotation gets hammered over the next two months. The Red Sox need to evaluate Workman, Webster, and Ranaudo, and "they all stink" isn't an outcome I'd be happy with. It will murder their trade value and won't portend well for 2015. Buchholz may continue to flail, and I'm sure there will be growing pains, but this isn't like rooting for Matsuzaka and Cook to get lit up in 2012 because they'd be gone anyway and it will help the draft status.
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Post by jmei on Aug 1, 2014 9:52:40 GMT -5
I think Scherzer is a disaster waiting to happen like Verlander and Lincecum. He relies on the heat a little too much. I think he's only thrown one complete game in his entire MLB career, if that, too, so he's a 7 inning guy - not a huge concern but maybe not the horse Lester and Sheilds are. Innings per start, 2014: Scherzer: 6.64 Shields: 6.48 Lester: 6.80 Innings per start, 2012-present: Scherzer: 6.37 Shields: 6.72 Lester: 6.45 Not a huge difference. The "one complete game" stuff is just circumstantial. He came of age later than Shields or Lester did, and with the increased emphasis on pitch counts, was just handled more with kid gloves than those guys were.
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Post by taftreign on Aug 1, 2014 10:01:27 GMT -5
I'm of the belief that Detroit has moved on from Scherzer and will offer Price his money. I pass on Scherzer on the market because his asking price will be higher. I'll give Lester a sixth year before spending on another top pitcher and lose a draft pick. As for the #2 rotation spot I'm checking in on Hamels or Cueto etc. this off season and see what there price of acquisition is.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 1, 2014 10:04:43 GMT -5
Boras client, FA, equals going to get way overpaid and be 12/25 (or thereabouts) before he signs and thank goodness Boston, without a true #1, will want to have one by then and not be playing Boras's silly games that long.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
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Post by nomar on Aug 1, 2014 10:10:58 GMT -5
I'd rather try to sign Shields to a shorter term deal. Scherzer will want 6+ years, not way in hell i give him that.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 1, 2014 10:11:19 GMT -5
I'm of the belief that Detroit has moved on from Scherzer and will offer Price his money. I pass on Scherzer on the market because his asking price will be higher. I'll give Lester a sixth year before spending on another top pitcher and lose a draft pick. As for the #2 rotation spot I'm checking in on Hamels or Cueto etc. this off season and see what there price of acquisition is. The draft pick should really not be much of a consideration for a pitcher of Scherzer's caliber. Especially if it's only a 2nd round pick
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2014 10:17:55 GMT -5
I'm of the belief that Detroit has moved on from Scherzer and will offer Price his money. I pass on Scherzer on the market because his asking price will be higher. I'll give Lester a sixth year before spending on another top pitcher and lose a draft pick. As for the #2 rotation spot I'm checking in on Hamels or Cueto etc. this off season and see what there price of acquisition is. The draft pick should really not be much of a consideration for a pitcher of Scherzer's caliber. Especially if it's only a 2nd round pick But if it's #11?
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Post by Guidas on Aug 1, 2014 10:25:50 GMT -5
Aren't top 11 protected this year because of Houston's debacle?
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Post by jmei on Aug 1, 2014 10:30:51 GMT -5
Aren't top 11 protected this year because of Houston's debacle? Yep. (But then, jimed says: what if it's 12?)
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2014 10:33:02 GMT -5
Aren't top 11 protected this year because of Houston's debacle? Yep. (But then, jimed says: what if it's 12?) Yeah, that was the point.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 1, 2014 10:36:37 GMT -5
Yes. And there is no chance the Red Sox are signing Scherzer. There is a much better chance they'll sign Shields than Scherzer and an even better chance that they will go off the board (Kenta Maeda?) to find a pitcher.
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Post by taftreign on Aug 1, 2014 10:46:34 GMT -5
I'm of the belief that Detroit has moved on from Scherzer and will offer Price his money. I pass on Scherzer on the market because his asking price will be higher. I'll give Lester a sixth year before spending on another top pitcher and lose a draft pick. As for the #2 rotation spot I'm checking in on Hamels or Cueto etc. this off season and see what there price of acquisition is. The draft pick should really not be much of a consideration for a pitcher of Scherzer's caliber. Especially if it's only a 2nd round pick Yes but let's not pretend draft picks and the related draft budget don't mean something to this team. The front office values them more than most teams IMO.
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