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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Nov 1, 2014 10:21:49 GMT -5
Sandoval says he wants to stay with the Giants, finish his career with them. That sounds like he wants a longer term deal, possibly with less per year - maybe a Pedroia-like deal, which the Giants might do - or someone else.
The Yankees are talking about moving A-Rod to 1st. That means they probably are going to make a serious run at re-signing Headley.
Those two items decrease the probability that the Sox will sign either one.
Freese will be 32 and he seems to be in decline, but still a decent player. The Sox could do worse. However, I'd be willing to bet that Cecchini would hit as well, or better.
And, does anyone actually read Shaughnessy anymore?
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Post by GyIantosca on Nov 1, 2014 10:51:58 GMT -5
You know the writers want to say we as fans are spoiled because of the winning. But I believe these writers are spoiled because when you win there is no place to go but down and this gives the writers more to work with and people like Dan gloat in this. But it's unfair to the team and why does he have to stir the pot with the fans? If you notice there is a few like that. Tony Mazz use to complain that the Sox blew it by not getting Mark Teixeira from free agency. Do we hear this anymore? He is on to another complaint.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,840
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 1, 2014 11:35:29 GMT -5
And, does anyone actually read Shaughnessy anymore? Good point. I refuse to give the Globe any clicks as long as he's there. I use this: danshaughnessy.blogspot.com/ The motto is "We read him so you don't have to." Perfect. The more I think about it, the more I think the RS will target Headley, not Panda. With all the holes they have, I don't think they'll spend $18 million/year or more on a pretty good, not great 3B who's a good bet to be a bad deal in the latter years of the contract. In this market, 4 years/$60 million is the new 3 years/$39 million. I think that's about what it'll take to get Headley. Also, others can poo-poo the desire to save a second round pick but I think that will factor into the RS thinking. It's not the deciding factor, but it's part of the equation.
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Post by charliezink16 on Nov 1, 2014 11:54:04 GMT -5
It'll be fun to see how this all plays out, so many options. I think we end up dealing with the Mets for Daniel Murphy, whether it be prospects going back or a Cespedes-centered package.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 1, 2014 12:19:50 GMT -5
What a name for a blogspot. Hard to beat Tears.
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Post by jmei on Nov 2, 2014 16:16:14 GMT -5
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Post by thursty on Nov 2, 2014 16:47:40 GMT -5
Could see the Royals considering moving Moustakas - who isn't a good player but is at least average defensively and LH - anyone but another year of WMB/Bogaerts
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 3, 2014 10:04:50 GMT -5
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 3, 2014 10:11:57 GMT -5
Not hard to figure out why.. Stuck with a failure half a season (or more) too long and now, because they stuck with that failure so long, are under pressure to make a FA sign and give big money away to people who have both been trending downward over the last 3y in both Sandoval, plus Headley. Self inflicted dilemma.
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 3, 2014 10:28:07 GMT -5
Could see the Royals considering moving Moustakas - who isn't a good player but is at least average defensively and LH - anyone but another year of WMB/Bogaerts I don't see why they would. And I don't think it's fair to categorize him as not being a good player. Rather, I think he'll just be a late bloomer. He's above average defensively, has a good amount of pop in his bat, and has far better contact skills than someone like WMB. He suffered from a miserable .220 BABIP this season, easily the worst of anyone with 450+ plate appearances, and still was a win above replacement level. I can see him settling in as a nice 2-3.5 win player, although it's probably wise to sit him against a fair amount of lefties.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 3, 2014 10:43:00 GMT -5
Not hard to figure out why.. Stuck with a failure half a season (or more) too long and now, because they stuck with that failure so long, are under pressure to make a FA sign and give big money away to people who have both been trending downward over the last 3y in both Sandoval, plus Headley. Self inflicted dilemma. If they stuck with him for half a season too long, are you suggesting that they should have gone out and traded for someone during the 2014 season? I guess I'm not seeing where they screwed up here. Middlebrooks didn't develop. Happens. Cecchini was struggling in Triple-A and still hasn't proven he'll be able to handle the position defensively period, nevermind now.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 3, 2014 10:52:20 GMT -5
Jon Heyman ?@jonheymancbs yankees start talks with headley, their top 3b target. cbsprt.co/1pgTe99
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 3, 2014 11:21:00 GMT -5
Jon Heyman ?@jonheymancbs 2m2 minutes ago Miami Beach, FL aramis ramirez has accepted the $14M option and will be back with the brewers, team announces.
Cross Aramis off the list
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Post by thursty on Nov 3, 2014 11:37:42 GMT -5
Could see the Royals considering moving Moustakas - who isn't a good player but is at least average defensively and LH - anyone but another year of WMB/Bogaerts I don't see why they would. And I don't think it's fair to categorize him as not being a good player. Rather, I think he'll just be a late bloomer. He's above average defensively, has a good amount of pop in his bat, and has far better contact skills than someone like WMB. He suffered from a miserable .220 BABIP this season, easily the worst of anyone with 450+ plate appearances, and still was a win above replacement level. I can see him settling in as a nice 2-3.5 win player, although it's probably wise to sit him against a fair amount of lefties. Well perhaps it's a matter of tense; would you agree that he *has not been* a good player? Career wOBA ==> 293, wRC+==> 82 in 2000 PA; Royals even sent him to the minors this summer. Maybe he's just been unlucky 2000 times
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Post by thursty on Nov 3, 2014 11:40:02 GMT -5
Not hard to figure out why.. Stuck with a failure half a season (or more) too long and now, because they stuck with that failure so long, are under pressure to make a FA sign and give big money away to people who have both been trending downward over the last 3y in both Sandoval, plus Headley. Self inflicted dilemma. If they stuck with him for half a season too long, are you suggesting that they should have gone out and traded for someone during the 2014 season? I guess I'm not seeing where they screwed up here. Middlebrooks didn't develop. Happens. Cecchini was struggling in Triple-A and still hasn't proven he'll be able to handle the position defensively period, nevermind now. Well, Headley was obviously available for next to nothing
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 3, 2014 11:45:36 GMT -5
I don't see why they would. And I don't think it's fair to categorize him as not being a good player. Rather, I think he'll just be a late bloomer. He's above average defensively, has a good amount of pop in his bat, and has far better contact skills than someone like WMB. He suffered from a miserable .220 BABIP this season, easily the worst of anyone with 450+ plate appearances, and still was a win above replacement level. I can see him settling in as a nice 2-3.5 win player, although it's probably wise to sit him against a fair amount of lefties. Well perhaps it's a matter of tense; would you agree that he *has not been* a good player? Career wOBA ==> 293, wRC+==> 82 in 2000 PA; Royals even sent him to the minors this summer. Maybe he's just been unlucky 2000 times Sure, he hasn't been good, but he hasn't been awful, either. He's at 5.0 fWAR in his three full(ish) seasons, meaning he's been OK, but nothing special. His BABIP's have always run on the low side, though, and hit rock bottom, literally, in 2014, which was the only season I was really applying the "unlucky" label to. But he has a career 89 wRC+ and .152 ISO against RHP's, with plus defense and a BABIP that will regress positively. That's a guy I have some real confidence in to have some "good" seasons in the years ahead.
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Post by thursty on Nov 3, 2014 11:52:38 GMT -5
Well perhaps it's a matter of tense; would you agree that he *has not been* a good player? Career wOBA ==> 293, wRC+==> 82 in 2000 PA; Royals even sent him to the minors this summer. Maybe he's just been unlucky 2000 times Sure, he hasn't been good, but he hasn't been awful, either. He's at 5.0 fWAR in his three full(ish) seasons, meaning he's been OK, but nothing special. His BABIP's have always run on the low side, though, and hit rock bottom, literally, in 2014, which was the only season I was really applying the "unlucky" label to. But he has a career 89 wRC+ and .152 ISO against RHP's, with plus defense and a BABIP that will regress positively. That's a guy I have some real confidence in to have some "good" seasons in the years ahead. If you're interested, Cameron is about as sanguine as I ( and directly addresses his BABIP)
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 3, 2014 12:04:13 GMT -5
Sure, he hasn't been good, but he hasn't been awful, either. He's at 5.0 fWAR in his three full(ish) seasons, meaning he's been OK, but nothing special. His BABIP's have always run on the low side, though, and hit rock bottom, literally, in 2014, which was the only season I was really applying the "unlucky" label to. But he has a career 89 wRC+ and .152 ISO against RHP's, with plus defense and a BABIP that will regress positively. That's a guy I have some real confidence in to have some "good" seasons in the years ahead. If you're interested, Cameron is about as sanguine as I ( and directly addresses his BABIP) OK, but that was written in May when he had a .152/.223/.320 line in 139 plate appearances. He hit .235/.289/.377 afterwards, which isn't good, but it was an improvement (and the BABIP rose from .155 to .244). His Z-Contact was 81% on the date of that publication. I can't tell what it's been since that day, but it ended up at 87.5%, putting him 114th of 171 players with at least 450 PA's. Cameron notes that over the season's first 6 weeks, Moustakes was lost, and points out that the terrible numbers he provides were uncharacteristic of Mike when you look at his previous seasons. All indications are that he fixed the contact holes after his recall on June 1st, and just continued to suffer with BABIP issues more than usual. ADD: From Cameron in October: The Jared he references is the gatekeeper of the Steamer projection system, which forecasts Moose to be a 3 WAR player next season. Jared's explanation on why that is, from the same article:
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 3, 2014 12:41:18 GMT -5
Not hard to figure out why.. Stuck with a failure half a season (or more) too long and now, because they stuck with that failure so long, are under pressure to make a FA sign and give big money away to people who have both been trending downward over the last 3y in both Sandoval, plus Headley. Self inflicted dilemma. If they stuck with him for half a season too long, are you suggesting that they should have gone out and traded for someone during the 2014 season? I guess I'm not seeing where they screwed up here. Middlebrooks didn't develop. Happens. Cecchini was struggling in Triple-A and still hasn't proven he'll be able to handle the position defensively period, nevermind now. Not even saying Cecchini was the answer, but he would probably have done at least the overall job that Middlebrooks put up the last season, especially when it finally came out he had a wrist injury.. Why was he even ON the big league roster, struggling already with that injury and the team playing so poorly as it was? Mistakes like that, coupled together was reasons why the team tumbled, not just injuries. Nothing personal Chris and no intention of insulting you here. I do think Holt and Cecchini, who was healthy, could have handled 3b last season if the team didn't go out on the market.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Nov 3, 2014 12:45:44 GMT -5
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,936
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Post by nomar on Nov 3, 2014 12:47:23 GMT -5
Cecchini faced huge developmental hurdles this year and still isn't 100% out of the woods. He definitely wouldn't have been able to handle 3B last year and neither would/will Holt.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 3, 2014 12:53:11 GMT -5
If they stuck with him for half a season too long, are you suggesting that they should have gone out and traded for someone during the 2014 season? I guess I'm not seeing where they screwed up here. Middlebrooks didn't develop. Happens. Cecchini was struggling in Triple-A and still hasn't proven he'll be able to handle the position defensively period, nevermind now. Not even saying Cecchini was the answer, but he would probably have done at least the overall job that Middlebrooks put up the last season, especially when it finally came out he had a wrist injury.. Why was he even ON the big league roster, struggling already with that injury and the team playing so poorly as it was? Mistakes like that, coupled together was reasons why the team tumbled, not just injuries. Nothing personal Chris and no intention of insulting you here. I do think Holt and Cecchini, who was healthy, could have handled 3b last season if the team didn't go out on the market. OK, but your point wasn't that it hurt them last year, as I understood it, but rather that it hurt them going forward. My point is that playing someone else who was already in the system doesn't mean they wouldn't need to address the position this offseason. Whether or not he got MLB playing time last year, Cecchini would be at the same stage in his development, yes? Well, he wasn't ready then (trust me) and he still isn't yet, which is the whole point of having to go sign someone - if they thought he was ready, they wouldn't be messing around with the idea of Sandoval or Headley. thursty - why, if you're the out-of-contention, sell-mode Red Sox, would you trade for Headley at the deadline when he's going to be a free agent? How does trading for Headley help you figure out the position long-term?
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 3, 2014 14:52:47 GMT -5
If they stuck with him for half a season too long, are you suggesting that they should have gone out and traded for someone during the 2014 season? I guess I'm not seeing where they screwed up here. Middlebrooks didn't develop. Happens. Cecchini was struggling in Triple-A and still hasn't proven he'll be able to handle the position defensively period, nevermind now. Not even saying Cecchini was the answer, but he would probably have done at least the overall job that Middlebrooks put up the last season, especially when it finally came out he had a wrist injury.. Why was he even ON the big league roster, struggling already with that injury and the team playing so poorly as it was? Mistakes like that, coupled together was reasons why the team tumbled, not just injuries. Nothing personal Chris and no intention of insulting you here. I do think Holt and Cecchini, who was healthy, could have handled 3b last season if the team didn't go out on the market. Cecchini had a 99 wRC+ in AAA last year. He wasn't ready for the majors. We brought WMB up too early so we may as well be patient with one of our prospects.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 3, 2014 14:57:46 GMT -5
Is it just me or do almost none of the guys he compares to Sandoval have anywhere close to as big of a gut?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 3, 2014 15:35:38 GMT -5
Got a chance to watch Sandoval play for San Jose in 2008. Honestly, Sandoval's shape isn't all that much different now than it was then. I'm more worried about the serious decline in his numbers over the last four years. Both his on-base percentage and his slugging have been headed in the same direction, and that's down. If that trend were to continue then in two years - never mind the five that's being thrown around - he'd be hovering right around .700 OPS. That's middle-infielder territory, positions he won't be playing any time soon. I know that salaries have been inflating even as offensive numbers have been deflating, but where does a team draw the line?
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