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Post by jimed14 on Nov 8, 2014 13:19:26 GMT -5
There is speculation that Hanley is insisting he stays at SS.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 13:22:32 GMT -5
I think I saw him mentioned on here a while back; the idea never really got discussed, and disappeared pretty quickly, but what about Lowrie for 3B? If he stays healthy he probably offers production not far off from what you'd get out of Headley or Sandoval for a considerably lower price, and if he doesn't stay healthy all year, we've got the backup players to stay productive, and his contract isn't going to hurt much.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 13:25:53 GMT -5
There is speculation that Hanley is insisting he stays at SS. It was reported less than a day ago that he says he's willing to play anywhere he's needed, specifically mentioning 3B.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 8, 2014 13:26:36 GMT -5
I think I saw him mentioned on here a while back; the idea never really got discussed, and disappeared pretty quickly, but what about Lowrie for 3B? If he stays healthy he probably offers production not far off from what you'd get out of Headley or Sandoval for a considerably lower price, and if he doesn't stay healthy all year, we've got the backup players to stay productive, and his contract isn't going to hurt much. Yeah, Lowrie would be fine with me. But he might get a little more interest for SS or 2B from other teams. I'd rather have him than Sandoval because the difference between the two is not going to be worth anywhere close to as much more money Sandoval will get.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 8, 2014 13:31:36 GMT -5
There is speculation that Hanley is insisting he stays at SS. It was reported less than a day ago that he says he's willing to play anywhere he's needed, specifically mentioning 3B. Doh, gotta catch up. But I'm still not interested, unless it's a short deal. Too many injuries. Hopefully the Yankees get in on that so we can get Headley.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 8, 2014 13:44:42 GMT -5
I think I saw him mentioned on here a while back; the idea never really got discussed, and disappeared pretty quickly, but what about Lowrie for 3B? If he stays healthy he probably offers production not far off from what you'd get out of Headley or Sandoval for a considerably lower price, and if he doesn't stay healthy all year, we've got the backup players to stay productive, and his contract isn't going to hurt much. Yeah, Lowrie would be fine with me. But he might get a little more interest for SS or 2B from other teams. I'd rather have him than Sandoval because the difference between the two is not going to be worth anywhere close to as much more money Sandoval will get. My own 2c is with Lowrie at 3b, but really.. He's going to get a LOT of offers as the main affordable and legitimate 2b guy available. I think NY will target him over Ramirez, then Headley so they can save more $$$ for the pitching. NY needs an entire new infield, other than 1b. Trying to get Lowrie, who can play anything from 3b-2b would go a long way to fixing it and he's not going to cost over 50m either.
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Post by azblue on Nov 8, 2014 13:53:27 GMT -5
Hanley was intensely unpopular with his teammates when he was in the Red Sox minor league system.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 13:57:55 GMT -5
Hanley was intensely unpopular with his teammates when he was in the Red Sox minor league system. Well, he was 19 and full of himself. It's been 10+ years, and basically everyone the majors is full of themselves.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2014 14:25:20 GMT -5
I think I saw him mentioned on here a while back; the idea never really got discussed, and disappeared pretty quickly, but what about Lowrie for 3B? If he stays healthy he probably offers production not far off from what you'd get out of Headley or Sandoval for a considerably lower price, and if he doesn't stay healthy all year, we've got the backup players to stay productive, and his contract isn't going to hurt much. I'm not sure Lowrie's bat really compares to Sandoval or Headley. Steamer projects Lowrie to put up a 104 wRC+ next year, compared to 120 for Sandoval and 112 for Headley. Here's how they compare over the last three years-- Lowrie is clearly a step behind. He's certainly an option, especially if the top-end guys end up too expensive, but he wouldn't be my plan A.
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Post by thursty on Nov 8, 2014 14:54:33 GMT -5
I know it's been mentioned before, but seeing these ridiculous #s being thrown around on FA's, all of them who carry big question marks - it's really unfathomable why they don't try Mookie at 3B. With his athleticism, low center of gravity, intelligence and work ethic, I think there's a better than even chance that he could be at least average defensively there (which puts him above any of the WMB/XB/GC troika). Yes, his arm and particularly its accuracy might be fringey, but it would solve a lot of problems at once. I don't want to keep jerking him around, and reading between the lines, I get the sense he really doesn't want to be the next Ben Zobrist - but if he's willing this would be his final position. And I'd bet a lot on him being better offensively than any of the FA options by 2016
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 14:57:11 GMT -5
I think I saw him mentioned on here a while back; the idea never really got discussed, and disappeared pretty quickly, but what about Lowrie for 3B? If he stays healthy he probably offers production not far off from what you'd get out of Headley or Sandoval for a considerably lower price, and if he doesn't stay healthy all year, we've got the backup players to stay productive, and his contract isn't going to hurt much. I'm not sure Lowrie's bat really compares to Sandoval or Headley. Steamer projects Lowrie to put up a 104 wRC+ next year, compared to 120 for Sandoval and 112 for Headley. Here's how they compare over the last three years-- Lowrie is clearly a step behind. He's certainly an option, especially if the top-end guys end up too expensive, but he wouldn't be my plan A. Both the lower projection and worse numbers over the last three years are largely due to a poor year this year; a poor year that appears largely luck driven. Given his batted ball profile you would expect a BABIP 40 points higher than his actual BABIP, his HR/FB was ridiculously low, and he had one of the worst batting averages in the game on hard hit balls ( link)
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2014 15:22:23 GMT -5
Fair point on the BABIP, but that's accounted for in his Steamer projection (it projects .290; he's at a career .292). Meanwhile, I'm not sure the power is ever coming back. He's really only had one above-average power season since 2010, and his average fly ball distances reached a career-low last year.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 15:31:10 GMT -5
Fair point on the BABIP, but that's accounted for in his Steamer projection (it projects .290; he's at a career .292). Meanwhile, I'm not sure the power is ever coming back. He's really only had one above-average power season since 2010, and his average fly ball distances reached a career-low last year. If you click through to the Fangraphs link they refer to in that article, the point of talking about the drop in batted ball distance was actually in making a case for a bounce back from him.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2014 15:40:58 GMT -5
That Fangraphs article was written in July; from that point to the rest of the season, his seasonal fly ball distance dropped another five feet, and he didn't really bounce back. He's not a true-talent .106 ISO hitter (the mark he put up in 2014), but the Steamer-projected .135 seems pretty reasonable. I'm just skeptical that he ever returns to the 20+ HR pace he was on in 2012, and between that and the injury issues, I'd look elsewhere first.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 8, 2014 15:49:13 GMT -5
That Fangraphs article was written in July; from that point to the rest of the season, his seasonal fly ball distance dropped another five feet, and he didn't really bounce back. He's not a true-talent .106 ISO hitter (the mark he put up in 2014), but the Steamer-projected .135 seems pretty reasonable. I'm just skeptical that he ever returns to the 20+ HR pace he was on in 2012, and between that and the injury issues, I'd look elsewhere first. Yeah, I don't think he was ever a 20 HR kind of guy, but even at a .135 ISO (which is league average, incidentally) he's a god hitter. The injury history is the reason he comes cheap, and we have good backup uptions, so we're better equipped to deal with a player like that than most. Still Headley is probably my 1st choice (depending on the contract), but I'd take Lowrie over a guy like Sandoval (especially at the price people are suggesting), or Daniel Murphy (who has come up a few times in different threads), or Valbuena if he takes much talent to acquire.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 8, 2014 18:06:23 GMT -5
Think cherrington would be interested in trading for freeze from the Angels to man third next season?
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 8, 2014 20:00:37 GMT -5
I think I saw him mentioned on here a while back; the idea never really got discussed, and disappeared pretty quickly, but what about Lowrie for 3B? If he stays healthy he probably offers production not far off from what you'd get out of Headley or Sandoval for a considerably lower price, and if he doesn't stay healthy all year, we've got the backup players to stay productive, and his contract isn't going to hurt much. Yeah, Lowrie would be fine with me. But he might get a little more interest for SS or 2B from other teams. I'd rather have him than Sandoval because the difference between the two is not going to be worth anywhere close to as much more money Sandoval will get. You are assuming that you can spend the money that you save on Lowrie to more than make up the difference between the two players. In any case, Lowrie seems like he would be a good fit for the Yankees who could then move Prado to 3B.
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Post by arzjake on Nov 8, 2014 20:05:03 GMT -5
There is speculation that Hanley is insisting he stays at SS. Good. Let the yankees take him and add another player who cannot plat defense at the position.. Talk in Cherington's office should be Beltre. Perfect bridge (2yrs left short money) until Cechinni Devers Chavis can take over. Rangers have a pretty good prospect in Gallo.. Surplus of pitching. Save the FA money for pitching or perhaps Hamels in trade
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 8, 2014 21:29:02 GMT -5
I know it's been mentioned before, but seeing these ridiculous #s being thrown around on FA's, all of them who carry big question marks - it's really unfathomable why they don't try Mookie at 3B. With his athleticism, low center of gravity, intelligence and work ethic, I think there's a better than even chance that he could be at least average defensively there (which puts him above any of the WMB/XB/GC troika). Yes, his arm and particularly its accuracy might be fringey, but it would solve a lot of problems at once. I don't want to keep jerking him around, and reading between the lines, I get the sense he really doesn't want to be the next Ben Zobrist - but if he's willing this would be his final position. And I'd bet a lot on him being better offensively than any of the FA options by 2016 I agree. They could keep Cespedes, Castillo and Nava/Victorino/Craig in the OF and slot Betts at 3rd, save a ton of money and have the kind of offense they are looking for. Use their money to upgrade pitching and get a short term back up catcher. If they can't sign Headley or Sandoval at a reasonable price...DO IT! I don't care if Mookie hasn't taken a single grounder at 3rd in his life. He could learn the position and be above average by July. An all star potentially in 2 years.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 9, 2014 9:45:18 GMT -5
I know it's been mentioned before, but seeing these ridiculous #s being thrown around on FA's, all of them who carry big question marks - it's really unfathomable why they don't try Mookie at 3B. With his athleticism, low center of gravity, intelligence and work ethic, I think there's a better than even chance that he could be at least average defensively there (which puts him above any of the WMB/XB/GC troika). Yes, his arm and particularly its accuracy might be fringey, but it would solve a lot of problems at once. I don't want to keep jerking him around, and reading between the lines, I get the sense he really doesn't want to be the next Ben Zobrist - but if he's willing this would be his final position. And I'd bet a lot on him being better offensively than any of the FA options by 2016 I agree. They could keep Cespedes, Castillo and Nava/Victorino/Craig in the OF and slot Betts at 3rd, save a ton of money and have the kind of offense they are looking for. Use their money to upgrade pitching and get a short term back up catcher. If they can't sign Headley or Sandoval at a reasonable price...DO IT! I don't care if Mookie hasn't taken a single grounder at 3rd in his life. He could learn the position and be above average by July. An all star potentially in 2 years. With a pop gun arm? ?
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Post by jdb on Nov 9, 2014 10:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by bjb406 on Nov 9, 2014 12:30:17 GMT -5
I haven't been following this thread like at all, but is it just me or is Pablo Sandoval woefully unworthy of a $100 million deal. Tack on the draft pick compensation, and I wouldn't give him half that
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 9, 2014 14:26:45 GMT -5
I haven't been following this thread like at all, but is it just me or is Pablo Sandoval woefully unworthy of a $100 million deal. Tack on the draft pick compensation, and I wouldn't give him half that Steamer projects 3.8 WAR in 2014 and that's worth $20M. Plus Steamer doesn't take into account an increase in offense from Fenway or the possibility that he improves his conditioning. The more I think about it, with Oritiz coming close to the end, Napoli free, and a lack of power in the minors I think the Red Sox need to acquire a good veteran player to play 3B in 2015. In the free agent market, Ramirez, Sandoval, and Headley fit that description. At 28, Sandoval is the youngest of that group.
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Post by buffs4444 on Nov 9, 2014 14:39:13 GMT -5
Sox should try to wrap up Headley before that happens.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Nov 9, 2014 14:39:54 GMT -5
I haven't been following this thread like at all, but is it just me or is Pablo Sandoval woefully unworthy of a $100 million deal. Tack on the draft pick compensation, and I wouldn't give him half that Steamer projects 3.8 WAR in 2014 and that's worth $20M. Plus Steamer doesn't take into account an increase in offense from Fenway or the possibility that he improves his conditioning. Steamer projects his wRC+ to go from 111 to 120. What are you talking about it isn't taking into account an increase in offense?
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