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Baseball America League Top 20
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 15, 2014 21:20:32 GMT -5
And yet BA is one of the very best rating orgs right? And even though Ranaudo has been very inconsistent over his career sometimes he absolutely looks like a stud. He's like 8th on my redsox starting pitching prospect depth chart also but I think being rated the 6th best prospect in the Eastern league after the year he had is reasonable. They don't have to agree with us right! And I find them to be right as often as any baseball website there is.
Edit: 8th behind the usual guys and Kopech, plus I consider RDLR and Webster still prospects.
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larrycook
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Post by larrycook on Oct 15, 2014 21:21:20 GMT -5
I remember being a little sad that Ranaudo was brought up to the majors (and subsequently got bombed) because I thought he was a prime sell-high candidate this offseason. He's by all accounts a really nice, hard-working kid, but I've not been impressed by him as a pitcher, and his major league struggles this year might have dropped his stock for many teams. Ranaudo is an enigma to a degree to me. Sometimes he really has a hammer curve and looks to be a mlb caliber stud. If he can ever get that curve full time he's a young Peavy. That's who that curve reminded me of. Could he have that curve if he didn't pitch as much. Maybe he's a future Andrew Miller? Ranaudo works up high in the strike zone and that is why he gives up tons of taters. When he learns to work in the bottom of the strike zone, he will get better. When the curve is working , it is special.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 15, 2014 21:23:34 GMT -5
Sixth in the IL doesn't sound crazy on it's own. It's just that there aren't a lot of people who have Ranaudo ahead of Cole and Meyer. Fair play to anyone who wants to stick his neck out on that though. An individual's ranking should certainly take available outside information, but it shouldn't be a crowdsourced average.
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larrycook
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Post by larrycook on Oct 15, 2014 21:26:58 GMT -5
Is swihart an untouchable?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 15, 2014 21:29:33 GMT -5
And accusing somebody from a national service of bias based on the ranking of one player 6th who happened to be the league pitcher of the year is rather flimsy logic. It's called trolling. Disagreeing with the ranking and giving reasoning is far more appropriate. You're the one who responded with "LOL" to Chris simply noting the guy was from NJ, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to subsequently call out jimed for lack of reasoning. Definitely not what I consider to be trolling. I just don't think it's a ridiculous thing to at least consider -- the ranking is highly questionable, and I would think the majority of posters on here would agree. The guy literally couldn't throw the ball past a major league hitter or keep the ball in the yard, and while I'm sure fatigue was partially responsible for that, his shiny ERA was way better than his peripheral stats in AAA (and AA, to a lesser degree). The LOL was sarcastic and I wasn't calling out jimed, I was more commenting on Chris' original statement. I thought the first part of his statement was appropriate, I didn't think the second part was. I don't at all disagree one way or another with people's view of where Ranaudo should be ranked or any logical argument for higher or lower, that wasn't my point. Saying 'I'm not implying New Jersey bias' is no different than saying 'I'm not implying Dustin Pedroia does steroids'. Just my opinion, your mileage can vary and it doesn't have much to do with baseball so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by dewey1972 on Oct 15, 2014 21:32:10 GMT -5
^ This about Swihart is part of why I think the people who are ok with trading him because the club has Vazquez are nuts. Swihart is slightly, slightly less proficient on defense but far, far more proficient on offense. I mean, Vazquez should be able to hold a starting job, but that's not a good reason to trade a guy who could/should be even better. Anyway... This is also why I think it's a little strange that he's even that low on the list. Would love to see what they say about the ranking in the chat. By the way, here's the link for convenience: www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2014-eastern-league-top-20-prospects-scouting-reports/I like Swihart a lot and I think his defense is underrated. It's a consequence, I think, of the fact that he's come late to catching and seems to have made big improvements in the last year (two years? I don't remember). When he was drafted, I think I remember that when comparing him to Hedges it was very much an offense (Swihart) to defense (Hedges) comparison, and the fact that Swihart's offense and offensive potential have looked like just what the Sox had hoped for has maybe overshadowed the defensive improvement. That said, we now have decent evidence that in addition to his arm and his general defensive prowess, Vazquez is at least a good, and possibly exceptional, pitch-framer. I haven't heard anyone say that is true of Swihart (someone let me know if there is any evidence) and I think that's a pretty big factor in catcher's defense. Doesn't mean I don't think Swihart is a great prospect, just something to consider in how we value Vazquez in relation to Swihart. No comments, by the way, in the Q and A about Swihart, except for this indirect one: "I was stunned that [Elias Diaz] rolled past Blake Swihart for the best defensive catcher in the EL during work on Best Tools." Actually, my sense from the chat is that Swihart's ranking is less a reflection on a low ranking for him and more that Josh Norris got really positive feedback about a lot of players. He says that Steven Matz shot up in people's minds. We know Sanchez has great stuff, and it wasn't that long ago that SoxProspects had Owens ranked ahead of Swihart. Given Rodriguez's ranking at the beginning of the year and his finish, I can see people putting him ahead of Swihart. I wouldn't, but I can see it. So my guess is 4-8 were a pretty tight tier.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 15, 2014 21:50:32 GMT -5
You're the one who responded with "LOL" to Chris simply noting the guy was from NJ, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to subsequently call out jimed for lack of reasoning. Definitely not what I consider to be trolling. I just don't think it's a ridiculous thing to at least consider -- the ranking is highly questionable, and I would think the majority of posters on here would agree. The guy literally couldn't throw the ball past a major league hitter or keep the ball in the yard, and while I'm sure fatigue was partially responsible for that, his shiny ERA was way better than his peripheral stats in AAA (and AA, to a lesser degree). The LOL was sarcastic and I wasn't calling out jimed, I was more commenting on Chris' original statement. I thought the first part of his statement was appropriate, I didn't think the second part was. I don't at all disagree one way or another with people's view of where Ranaudo should be ranked or any logical argument for higher or lower, that wasn't my point. Saying 'I'm not implying New Jersey bias' is no different than saying 'I'm not implying Dustin Pedroia does steroids'. Just my opinion, your mileage can vary and it doesn't have much to do with baseball so we'll have to agree to disagree. FWIW, I said the New Jersey thing so that people wouldn't miss my point. My point: The list was compiled by some guy who works for a newspaper and doesn't even appear to be a writer at said newspaper, and more importantly isn't a BA staffer. He appears to contribute to BA when there are important things in the NY/NJ area, like league all-star games, and has compiled the last couple of IL lists. Lavarnwayguy points out that BA is typically a reliable source. I agree with that, for the most part (the awful Mercedes over-hype job earlier this year notwithstanding), but I really don't think this piece qualifies. What I didn't want people to think my point was: that it mattered that the particular newspaper he worked at happened to be in New Jersey. Apparently in trying to point that out, it had the opposite effect. Hopefully this cleared things up.
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Post by joshv02 on Oct 16, 2014 6:15:08 GMT -5
Too bad; I assumed it was a Temple joke.
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larrycook
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Post by larrycook on Oct 16, 2014 21:31:21 GMT -5
Sixth in the IL doesn't sound crazy on it's own. It's just that there aren't a lot of people who have Ranaudo ahead of Cole and Meyer. Fair play to anyone who wants to stick his neck out on that though. An individual's ranking should certainly take available outside information, but it shouldn't be a crowdsourced average. Got to agree especially considering ranaudo looks like a twin pitch pitcher.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 16, 2014 21:57:52 GMT -5
Sixth in the IL doesn't sound crazy on it's own. It's just that there aren't a lot of people who have Ranaudo ahead of Cole and Meyer. Fair play to anyone who wants to stick his neck out on that though. An individual's ranking should certainly take available outside information, but it shouldn't be a crowdsourced average. Got to agree especially considering ranaudo looks like a twin pitch pitcher. Playing the devils advocate here.. First I agree personally. I would trade Ranaudo for either Meyer or Cole. On the other hand Cole only pitched 63 innings at AAA and Meyer allowed a walk a game more than Ranaudo. Ranking Ranaudo over either is certainly a defensible position to take. ADDING 2 cents... For two pitchers, Ranaudo and Johnson in particular, I'm anticipating an uptick in 'stuff' this coming season for essentially the same reason. Both pitchers priority had to be stretching out their innings because of their histories, both accomplished that. Both maintained their level of stuff throughout the season and both showed the ability to dial it up on occasion. 2015 will be the tell for both and I expect both to impress this coming spring. Two pitchers I view as, to a lesser extent, needing to make the same step next year are Diaz and Rodriguez but for different reasons.
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