|
Post by soxfan06 on Nov 24, 2014 0:21:12 GMT -5
Nowhere does it say that the Sox are withdrawing their offer to Sandoval. He might wind up going back to SF or even try out SD or he could be back on a plane to Boston (as a guy on twitter is saying Panda is on his flight from Miami to Boston). It's possible in Ben's mind that worst case scenario Hanley is at 3b and the Sox get a middle of the order hitter or best case scenario the Sox get Sandoval, a better defensive 3b and and switchhitter to play 3b, and they move Hanley to LF, which to them might be a better option than having Nava platoon with Craig or hope Victorino is healthy enough for the 3rd OF spot, which makes it all the more easier to part with Cespedes in a deal for a needed pitcher. So it is quite possible the Sox are going to spend the dough on both Ramirez and Sandoval. I really don't see how man. I respectfully disagree! Why is it so hard to see? It's just money.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 24, 2014 0:22:30 GMT -5
Nowhere does it say that the Sox are withdrawing their offer to Sandoval. He might wind up going back to SF or even try out SD or he could be back on a plane to Boston (as a guy on twitter is saying Panda is on his flight from Miami to Boston). It's possible in Ben's mind that worst case scenario Hanley is at 3b and the Sox get a middle of the order hitter or best case scenario the Sox get Sandoval, a better defensive 3b and and switchhitter to play 3b, and they move Hanley to LF, which to them might be a better option than having Nava platoon with Craig or hope Victorino is healthy enough for the 3rd OF spot, which makes it all the more easier to part with Cespedes in a deal for a needed pitcher. So it is quite possible the Sox are going to spend the dough on both Ramirez and Sandoval. I really don't see how man. I respectfully disagree! Fair enough. I'm no huge fan of Sandoval and preferred Hanley from the outset, but I have a feeling Sandoval is coming to Boston. There's a lot of money in the game these days - the Sox have the money to spend and the fact of the matter is that they've finished dead last and lost more than 90 games two of the last three years, so they may feel the urgency to spend the money. As long as they're improving the ballclub that's all that matters to me. Like you say, it's debatable how much and for how long Sandoval would do so.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 24, 2014 0:23:05 GMT -5
The Panda was probably playing us and now he has a lot less leverage. I think not signing Sandoval continues to send the message that Cherington doesn't mess around. You've got to admit, he consistently gets deals done and he consistently holds on to those long term purse strings. The man personifies "prudent". He has to be building a reputation in the industry as a guy who will not play games long in the negotiating process. Accept his offer or move on quickly.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 24, 2014 0:24:13 GMT -5
The Panda was probably playing us and now he has a lot less leverage. I think not signing Sandoval continues to send the message that Cherington doesn't mess around. You've got to admit, he consistently gets deals done and he consistently holds on to those long term purse strings. The man personifies "prudent". He has to be building a reputation in the industry as a guy who will not play games long in the negotiating process. Accept his offer or move on quickly. Again I would ask - where do you see anything saying the Sox have withdrawn the offer?
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Nov 24, 2014 0:24:47 GMT -5
Is anybody worried about what his presence could do to the locker room?
Seems like Lester had some extremely disparaging remarks concerning Hanley. I know hanley has probably matured since then, but still the remarks still come to mind when I think about Hanley.
|
|
|
Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Nov 24, 2014 0:24:53 GMT -5
Extremely pleased with this signing.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 24, 2014 0:26:20 GMT -5
Is anybody worried about what his presence could do to the locker room? Seems like Lester had some extremely disparaging remarks concerning Hanley. I know hanley has probably matured since then, but still the remarks still come to mind when I think about Hanley. I think Ortiz would take care of the situation. Hanley respects Ortiz a great deal and if Lester came back I would think things would work out alright.
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Nov 24, 2014 0:41:42 GMT -5
Is anybody worried about what his presence could do to the locker room? Seems like Lester had some extremely disparaging remarks concerning Hanley. I know hanley has probably matured since then, but still the remarks still come to mind when I think about Hanley. 1. No way. We have a strong locker room. No way we let anything go on. 2. Lester isn't here (yet) so that's hardly something to worry about at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Nov 24, 2014 0:43:56 GMT -5
The Panda was probably playing us and now he has a lot less leverage. I think not signing Sandoval continues to send the message that Cherington doesn't mess around. You've got to admit, he consistently gets deals done and he consistently holds on to those long term purse strings. The man personifies "prudent". He has to be building a reputation in the industry as a guy who will not play games long in the negotiating process. Accept his offer or move on quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandoval picks SF. Afterall he said his top priority is to stay in SF and the contracts offered at pretty close. But if he does, it won't be because the Red Sox pulled their offer after signing Ramirez. How many times does that need to be reported for you to believe it?
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Nov 24, 2014 0:44:04 GMT -5
Re Hanley: Most people do grow up significantly from the time they are 20 to when they're 30, and I'd imagine it wouldn't take too long for Lester/Hanley to get back on a similar page
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
|
Post by nomar on Nov 24, 2014 0:57:11 GMT -5
On the same note: Lester is a mature adult, not some grudge-holding 8th grader. He won't let one man's decision dictate his life's course. Also it is inevitable that there will be at least one person on your given team that you can't stand. Anyone who's played a sport can reciprocate that.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Nov 24, 2014 1:04:07 GMT -5
The Panda was probably playing us and now he has a lot less leverage. I think not signing Sandoval continues to send the message that Cherington doesn't mess around. You've got to admit, he consistently gets deals done and he consistently holds on to those long term purse strings. The man personifies "prudent". He has to be building a reputation in the industry as a guy who will not play games long in the negotiating process. Accept his offer or move on quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandoval picks SF. Afterall he said his top priority is to stay in SF and the contracts offered at pretty close. But if he does, it won't be because the Red Sox pulled their offer after signing Ramirez. How many times does that need to be reported for you to believe it? You know it may just be that the Sox anticipated they were being played back and forth all along with SF and just moved on. Now Sandoval is stuck with San Diego vs SF allegedly. Big difference. Sandoval's deal just went down in value probably but enough for Boston to still want him? I give it MAYBE 10-15% likelihood no matter what the reports are. It would necessitate other deals almost definitely happening to fix the lineup issues that would create. I'd give us trading for Jaso twice the likelihood, and that's a trade, not a FA signing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 1:06:16 GMT -5
The Panda was probably playing us and now he has a lot less leverage. I think not signing Sandoval continues to send the message that Cherington doesn't mess around. You've got to admit, he consistently gets deals done and he consistently holds on to those long term purse strings. The man personifies "prudent". He has to be building a reputation in the industry as a guy who will not play games long in the negotiating process. Accept his offer or move on quickly. That means we are not getting Lester then.
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Nov 24, 2014 1:11:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Sandoval picks SF. Afterall he said his top priority is to stay in SF and the contracts offered at pretty close. But if he does, it won't be because the Red Sox pulled their offer after signing Ramirez. How many times does that need to be reported for you to believe it? You know it may just be that the Sox anticipated they were being played back and forth all along with SF and just moved on. Now Sandoval is stuck with San Diego vs SF allegedly. Big difference. Sandoval's deal just went down in value probably but enough for Boston to still want him? I give it MAYBE 10-15% likelihood no matter what the reports are. It would necessitate other deals almost definitely happening to fix the lineup issues that would create. I'd give us trading for Jaso twice the likelihood, and that's a trade, not a FA signing. 1. Sandoval's value didn't go down with Hanley signing. In fact I'd argue his value just went up with one of the other main 3B targets just went off the market. 2. Teams aren't going to lower their contract offers, especially a team like the Padres. That's piss poor business practice and sure as hell something agents talk about to other agents. 3. What the hell are you talking about with Jaso. Not sure how he is related to anything I said.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,931
Member is Online
|
Post by ericmvan on Nov 24, 2014 3:13:10 GMT -5
The more I think about this, I don't think Hanley is being signed as necessarily the long-term 3B solution. That they are still very much in play for Sandoval tells you that.
He's being signed to fill the role of a middle-of-the-order elite or near-elite bat, probably at LF, 1B, DH -- which is something we are absolutely going to need over the next few years, given the state of the farm and the current roster.
In the meantime, however, he can play 3B for at least year while they wait on Cecchini and WMB. And if it turns out he's really good defensively at 3B, so much the better. But that's not necessary to the plan.
As for the wisdom of also signing Sandoval ... assume Cespedes for a P in any case.
If Hanley were your 3B and your 3rd outfielder plan was a platoon of Victorino, Nava, and Craig, would you be interested in signing Sandoval, moving Hanley to LF, dumping Craig, and relegating Nava / Victorino to backups?
It's probably a defensive upgrade at 3B, but a downgrade in the OF. It's probably a small offensive upgrade for 2015 (depending on Victorino). It doesn't really seem to make you $20M better in 2015. Not close.
But starting in 2016, you have a roster spot that you're trying to fill with a declining Nava, or Cecchini, or WMB ... now Sandoval may look more worth the money. And he's only costing you a 3rd round pick.
|
|
|
Post by kman22 on Nov 24, 2014 3:17:09 GMT -5
For the money they were talking about for the Panda, with his body type and likelihood of pulling a mini Prince Fielder on us, this makes way more sense. I especially like the roster flexibility factor. And we are a team which can handle injury situations more than most. Edit: I really think this means no Panda. I didn't even want them to go $90 mil at 3rd base. No way they sign Panda also and plug the holes in the rotation unless they trade a boatload of prospects. Ramirez must have been the fall back. As it is already, they may be looking to trade some guys. The only thing going for the Panda is the fact that we are so right handed. They would definitely be trading people to insert Panda in the lineup now. www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/red-sox-on-verge-of-signing-hanley-ramirez/I'd argue that your roster flexibility and your financial flexibility would not be limited by the signings of both Sandoval and Ramirez, at least when compared to just signing Ramirez. It seems safe to assume Cespesdes gets dealt in that scenario, covering at least half of Sandoval's anticipated salary, while adding more balance to the lineup. Plus, having Cespesdes as an asset would make it easier to acquire a cost effective #2/#3 starter.
|
|
|
Post by okin15 on Nov 24, 2014 5:58:44 GMT -5
Obviously remains to be seen what else the Sox do, but I'm not a big fan of this signing for three reasons. 1) it ties up money that should be going to Sandoval and/or Lester 2) Hanley is a cancer in the clubhouse 3) it either takes Sandoval's place on the roster, or adds another OF, forcing the Sox to sell an OF for pennies on the dollar. Not to mention Hanley's value is less if he can't play the IF.
The only good thing is that Hanley is flexible defensively. If the Sox signed him and Panda (and Lester?) and traded Cespedes and/or Craig, they could play Hanley in LF, while using him on an emergency basis at SS or even 3B. Not sure if they would use him to spell the starters there regularly, but as injury insurance, I think it's viable.
|
|
|
Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 24, 2014 6:11:19 GMT -5
I think if they sign both Hanley and Pablo it makes it likely the Sox are willing to go over the cap this year. I can't imagine they make both moves in place of a starter.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 24, 2014 6:16:18 GMT -5
That Jake Wesley guy is saying Sandoval is done for 5/102. (have we figured out who the hell he is yet?)
Also, it's being universally reported that the Sox are still in on Sandoval.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Nov 24, 2014 6:21:18 GMT -5
That Jake Wesley guy is saying it's done for 5/102. (have we figured out who the hell he is yet?) Also, it's being universally reported that the Sox are still in on Sandoval. Plus Sandoval took a flight from Miami to Boston last night., so...
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 24, 2014 6:36:43 GMT -5
A Whole Lotta Love around here for a guy who...let's be honest...has had 1 really good year in the last 6 years. And it seems reasonable to me that the 5/90...which everyone seems to think is a great deal...was probably the highest offer he received or was going to receive........or why would he be so eager to sign this early in free agent period.
He's been a real enigma at times in his career. I am sure the Sox will get some good value...he is talented....but this is more risky than Panda.
|
|
|
Post by moonstone2 on Nov 24, 2014 8:00:52 GMT -5
That Jake Wesley guy is saying Sandoval is done for 5/102. (have we figured out who the hell he is yet?) Also, it's being universally reported that the Sox are still in on Sandoval. The reason for that could be that the Red Sox front office isn't leaking and the report on HRAM is comming from someone associated with the player. They wouldn't know about any plans regarding the Sandoval offer. But they should withdraw the offer. I don't like how Sandoval's camp has turned the process into an episode of American Idol. It is an honor and a privlidge to play for the Red Sox especially for that type of money. The Red Sox should not have to wait by the phone like some teenaged girl hoping that the quarterback will call and take her to the prom. I would be quite happy if they told him to pound sand.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,824
|
Post by wcp3 on Nov 24, 2014 8:11:38 GMT -5
That Jake Wesley guy is saying Sandoval is done for 5/102. (have we figured out who the hell he is yet?) Also, it's being universally reported that the Sox are still in on Sandoval. The reason for that could be that the Red Sox front office isn't leaking and the report on HRAM is comming from someone associated with the player. They wouldn't know about any plans regarding the Sandoval offer. But they should withdraw the offer. I don't like how Sandoval's camp has turned the process into an episode of American Idol. It is an honor and a privlidge to play for the Red Sox especially for that type of money. The Red Sox should not have to wait by the phone like some teenaged girl hoping that the quarterback will call and take her to the prom. I would be quite happy if they told him to pound sand. Oh stop.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Nov 24, 2014 8:19:38 GMT -5
Welcome home Hanley. Please stay healthy.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2014 8:22:35 GMT -5
A Whole Lotta Love around here for a guy who...let's be honest... has had 1 really good year in the last 6 years. And it seems reasonable to me that the 5/90...which everyone seems to think is a great deal...was probably the highest offer he received or was going to receive........or why would he be so eager to sign this early in free agent period. He's been a real enigma at times in his career. I am sure the Sox will get some good value...he is talented....but this is more risky than Panda. He hit .283/.369/.448 last year, .345/.402/.638 in 2013, .300/.378/.475 in 2010, and .342/.410/.543 in 2009. So in the last six years, he's had two MVP-caliber seasons and two more All-Star-caliber ones.
|
|