|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2015 12:44:44 GMT -5
Tim Britton ?@timbritton 17s17 seconds ago Farrell listed Betts, Victorino and Holt as leadoff candidates. Seems whoever starts in RF gets it. I'm already annoyed. Betts will be in AAA.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Feb 20, 2015 12:49:27 GMT -5
Hanley Ramirez ?@hanleyramirez 16m16 minutes ago Joe Kelly and I, perfecting our #PandaPose LOL redsox @redsoxbeisbol #RedSoxNation #2015GonnaBeFun
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Feb 20, 2015 12:56:16 GMT -5
Tim Britton ?@timbritton 17s17 seconds ago Farrell listed Betts, Victorino and Holt as leadoff candidates. Seems whoever starts in RF gets it. I'm already annoyed. Betts will be in AAA. Better Pawtucket then Philly... I still feel like there is going to be a move that's going to piss 70% of the users here. Just a matter of what player(s)
|
|
|
Post by cologneredsox on Feb 20, 2015 13:35:04 GMT -5
Let's wait for spring training games before we pencil in where we put each player. That goes to you, too, Mr. Farrell...
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2015 13:52:19 GMT -5
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes 17m17 minutes ago The Farrell quote on Victorino: "If Shane is fully capable and fully healthy he’s our RF. That’s pretty simple.''
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2015 13:57:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Feb 20, 2015 14:05:06 GMT -5
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes 35m35 minutes ago The Farrell quote on Victorino: "If Shane is fully capable and fully healthy he’s our RF. That’s pretty simple.''
Honestly, that makes more inclined to believe Victorino will be traded this spring rather than taking it as a sign Betts will likely go to AAA.
Also, that Hanley tweet is fantastic.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2015 14:09:20 GMT -5
Red Sox Monster ?@redsoxmonster 22m22 minutes ago @timbritton Plus #ShaneVictorino "starting RF" is easier to trade than Shane Victorino "4th OF." #RedSox #RedSoxTalk
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Feb 20, 2015 14:20:21 GMT -5
There's an out there-- Victorino has to be "fully capable." If he's five win 2013 Victorino, he absolutely should be the starting right fielder. If he's a win-and-a-half guy who can't hit righties and needs frequent days off, he's either a fourth outfielder or traded.
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Feb 20, 2015 14:27:14 GMT -5
Red Sox Monster ?@redsoxmonster 22m22 minutes ago @timbritton Plus #ShaneVictorino "starting RF" is easier to trade than Shane Victorino "4th OF." #RedSox #RedSoxTalk Maybe, but the label the Sox slap on him now isn't going to manipulate any MLB front offices assessments of him. Everyone agrees that a healthy Shane Victorino is a very useful player in a near-full time capacity, even if his offense vs. RHP as a RHH gets exposed, as I believe it will (I've mentioned how fluky his 2013 numbers were several times). More important than hyping up him being the starting RF if he's healthy is hyping up the fact that's he's simply healthy. But he also could easily strain a hammy or pull his back out of no where and be out for weeks, and teams know this. That's why I don't see much of an advantage in holding on to him for a bit to "prove" he's back. I'm willing to trade him for something below his potential value in favor of eradicating the great uncertainty he comes with combined with forcing an MLB-ready talent, who happens to be by far our best lead-off option, to lose at bats.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2015 14:29:18 GMT -5
There is zero question in my mind that Mookie Betts would hit RHP better than a fully healthy Victorino and be close enough defensively that he'd be worth far more from day 1. Don't give away any wins in April.
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 20, 2015 15:07:16 GMT -5
I don't want to read too much into this, it's very early anything can happen. But this feels a lot like the Grady Sizemore situation last year. Yes Victorino has way more potential value but that's not where I'm drawing comparisons.
I mean it in the way Farrell handles this type of veteran-young players situations. That's one of the things I think he has had trouble handling. I hope this clears before it really becomes an issue.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 20, 2015 18:27:02 GMT -5
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes 35m35 minutes ago The Farrell quote on Victorino: "If Shane is fully capable and fully healthy he’s our RF. That’s pretty simple.'' Honestly, that makes more inclined to believe Victorino will be traded this spring rather than taking it as a sign Betts will likely go to AAA. Also, that Hanley tweet is fantastic. Exactly. Everybody should keep their shirts on, though you're certainly welcome to climb on board JimEd's bus wearing it. This may just be Farrell the diplomat working hard to promote world peace. It really doesn't do a lot of good to have someone proclaiming to everyone within earshot that he needs to be the starter. This may quite that down - for a while. And, as jmei pointed out, like a good diplomat, there is a bit of flexibility built into that statement.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Feb 20, 2015 18:54:30 GMT -5
Let's wait for spring training games before we pencil in where we put each player. That goes to you, too, Mr. Farrell... Uhm... why? It's not like spring training performance translates well to regular season performance.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,824
|
Post by wcp3 on Feb 20, 2015 19:02:10 GMT -5
Not sure why Farrrll had to say that. But I'm not sure why he does a lot of things, so this is nothing new.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 20, 2015 19:07:46 GMT -5
Tim Britton ?@timbritton 17s17 seconds ago Farrell listed Betts, Victorino and Holt as leadoff candidates. Seems whoever starts in RF gets it. In other news, it's 2015 an alarming number of MLB managers still can't differentiate between a good leadoff guy and a hole in the ground.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 20, 2015 19:11:45 GMT -5
Hopefully, that's why you keep hitting coaches around.
|
|
|
Post by charliezink16 on Feb 20, 2015 19:39:48 GMT -5
|
|
soph
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by soph on Feb 20, 2015 20:52:06 GMT -5
Victorino should just shut up and perform.
For a guy that collected $13M doing nothing in 2014 he sure is cocky. He thinks everyone is against him? Just earn the damn paycheck.
|
|
|
Post by ancientsoxfogey on Feb 20, 2015 22:27:50 GMT -5
And now for something completely different.
One player I'm concerned with this spring and into the season is Brian Johnson. The organization allowed him a workload increase of more than 60 innings from 2013 to 2014.
I realize they may have thought it was OK because (1) He's a big sturdy guy; (2) He's older, so they don't need to hold the reins on him so tightly; and (3) Because he's older and projects better as a starter (lots of OK pitches but no dominant ones) they figured they had no real choice but to ramp him up like that.
But might he have some issues from the greatly increased workload last year? We'll see.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2015 22:36:59 GMT -5
And now for something completely different. One player I'm concerned with this spring and into the season is Brian Johnson. The organization allowed him a workload increase of more than 60 innings from 2013 to 2014. I realize they may have thought it was OK because (1) He's a big sturdy guy; (2) He's older, so they don't need to hold the reins on him so tightly; and (3) Because he's older and projects better as a starter (lots of OK pitches but no dominant ones) they figured they had no real choice but to ramp him up like that. But might he have some issues from the greatly increased workload last year? We'll see. The problem here is that nobody really knows (outside of the Sox) how much he actually pitched in 2013. There were reports of his doing bullpens while recovering from the facial. I pretty much watched him all year and he didn't show any signs of being tired that I saw. A few other things, he had a low WHIP, not all innings are created equal. He rarely used his top velocity, less overall stress. Stupid statement ADD: If you lined up all of the upper level pitchers and asked a group of people who didn't know which was which who they thought looked most like a workhorse, I think Johnson would be the hands down winner and it's not because he's muscular, it's the general size and shape. That's the very first impression people would get.
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Feb 21, 2015 0:56:38 GMT -5
And now for something completely different. One player I'm concerned with this spring and into the season is Brian Johnson. The organization allowed him a workload increase of more than 60 innings from 2013 to 2014. I realize they may have thought it was OK because (1) He's a big sturdy guy; (2) He's older, so they don't need to hold the reins on him so tightly; and (3) Because he's older and projects better as a starter (lots of OK pitches but no dominant ones) they figured they had no real choice but to ramp him up like that. But might he have some issues from the greatly increased workload last year? We'll see. I might have agreed with you if he pitched 200 innings last year. However, he only pitched 143 over 25 starts. Or 5.7 per outing. Not quite sure why there would be any concern over that.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2015 10:09:30 GMT -5
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes 35m35 minutes ago The Farrell quote on Victorino: "If Shane is fully capable and fully healthy he’s our RF. That’s pretty simple.'' Honestly, that makes more inclined to believe Victorino will be traded this spring rather than taking it as a sign Betts will likely go to AAA. Also, that Hanley tweet is fantastic. Exactly. Everybody should keep their shirts on, though you're certainly welcome to climb on board JimEd's bus wearing it. This may just be Farrell the diplomat working hard to promote world peace. It really doesn't do a lot of good to have someone proclaiming to everyone within earshot that he needs to be the starter. This may quite that down - for a while. And, as jmei pointed out, like a good diplomat, there is a bit of flexibility built into that statement. I understand that, but based on everything that Farrell has done as a manager such as starting Gomes over Nava vs RHP multiple times, and starting Drew over Bogaerts vs LHP in 2013 even after the division was won, would it really surprise anyone if Betts is either in AAA or on the bench if Victorino is healthy enough to play? That he said it is enough for me to believe he'll do it. I already brought it up weeks ago. Ben has to save Farrell from himself.
|
|
|
Post by Smittyw on Feb 21, 2015 10:21:26 GMT -5
Pete Abraham ?@peteabe 4m4 minutes ago #RedSox announce they extended manager John Farrell's contract through the 2017 season with a club option for 2018.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Feb 21, 2015 10:41:51 GMT -5
More important than hyping up him being the starting RF if he's healthy is hyping up the fact that's he's simply healthy. But he also could easily strain a hammy or pull his back out of no where and be out for weeks, and teams know this. That's why I don't see much of an advantage in holding on to him for a bit to "prove" he's back. I'm willing to trade him for something below his potential value in favor of eradicating the great uncertainty he comes with combined with forcing an MLB-ready talent, who happens to be by far our best lead-off option, to lose at bats. That's just the thing-- teams will make better offers for Victorino if he's made it through all of Spring Training and looks healthy and productive. If they were to trade for him now, they would take on that additional risk of Spring Training injury, which implies they would be willing to offer less now as compared to what they would offer at the end of Spring Training. There's also the fact that another team might lose one of their outfielders during ST to injury, which adds more potential destinations as compared to trying to trade him now. Meanwhile, the Red Sox are in a perfect position to take on that additional risk of injury. If Victorino gets injured, they would be happy to stick him on the DL and kick the outfield logjam can down the road. Similarly, if any of Ramirez, Castillo, Betts, Napoli, Ortiz, Pedroia, or perhaps even Bogaerts/Sandoval get injured during Spring Training and have to miss the start of the season, they'll be glad they kept Victorino, who would probably be the replacement for any of the above in the starting lineup (with other pieces moving around as necessary and Betts retaining a starting spot). Here's how I see it: there's no real disadvantages to keeping Victorino around until the games actually start mattering. The front office/coaching staff can either keep the picture ambiguous or imply that Victorino is in the lead for a starting spot right up until Opening Day without having any tangible negative effects on the team's regular-season performance. Like jimed suggests, the real risk is that Farrell will start Victorino over Betts when the games start counting, but that still means you can wait until Opening Day to resolve the issue before there start being actual negative consequences.
|
|