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Pawtucket Red Sox to move to Providence?
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Post by okin15 on Apr 21, 2015 18:43:54 GMT -5
The new Knights stadium in Charlotte is a good example of how even a minor league park can be beneficial to a downtown area.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 22, 2015 12:29:41 GMT -5
The new Knights stadium in Charlotte is a good example of how even a minor league park can be beneficial to a downtown area. Or is it a good example of the baseball stadium getting undeserved credit for the overall revitalization effort? We're into correlation vs. causation here. A baseball stadium being in a nice area doesn't mean the baseball stadium is the reason the area is nice. People have pointed to Fenway Park as an example, but a bunch of hotels and stuff started going up in Kenmore Square in the 1990's. The Rat, which was the old-Kenmore Square-est place in all of Kenmore Square, closed because the building was bought by a developer in 1997. That area's renaissance has zero to do with the Henry/Werner/Luchhino updates to Fenway Park. In fact the closing of Yawkey Way on game day is probably an overall economic negative.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Apr 23, 2015 7:38:41 GMT -5
The new Knights stadium in Charlotte is a good example of how even a minor league park can be beneficial to a downtown area. Or is it a good example of the baseball stadium getting undeserved credit for the overall revitalization effort? We're into correlation vs. causation here. A baseball stadium being in a nice area doesn't mean the baseball stadium is the reason the area is nice. People have pointed to Fenway Park as an example, but a bunch of hotels and stuff started going up in Kenmore Square in the 1990's. The Rat, which was the old-Kenmore Square-est place in all of Kenmore Square, closed because the building was bought by a developer in 1997. That area's renaissance has zero to do with the Henry/Werner/Luchhino updates to Fenway Park. In fact the closing of Yawkey Way on game day is probably an overall economic negative. I agree with the premise of your point - I think the idea that a baseball team (major or minor league) could revitalize an entire downtown is ludicrous. But it can certainly add to the appeal. Just look at Lowell. While there are many other factors that helped bring back the downtown (UMass Lowell probably being the biggest), the Spinners make for a nice attraction during the summer after the college kids leave. The two can go hand in hand.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 23, 2015 9:22:26 GMT -5
I have never said and never will that a baseball stadium "causes" the revitalization of an area. But they take up a lot of empty, dead space. Sure, eventually, that space might have a better use, but it might not be for 10-15 years. In my mind, all three of Lucchino's projects have helped to jumpstart areas which needed a shot of adrenaline. In each of those three areas, the ballpark was a part of a greater effort and collaboration between city and land-owners to upscale a neighborhood.
Old Town San Diego was just coming back when PetCo went in, and suddenly it turned around quickly. Baltimore's inner harbor was a tiny enclave fighting for it's life as the only upscale (you might also say fake, but that's a different issue) tourist attraction in the city. It got new life and expanded it's reach dramatically with the construction of Camden Yards. Fenway is not Kenmore, and the credence that a powerful ownership and vibrant baseball park lend to that area has helped that area completely overhaul it's image.
The city has absolutely played a role, but some of that is the area owners organizing and asking the city for new sidewalks, a new Yawkey Station, more liquor licenses, and a major improvement to the emerald necklace. This is stuff that the old owners never did, or thought to ask for. They were content with the low margin dives in the area. I think that a park in Pawtucket (and there may well be a better spot than the proposal) could galvanize owners in the area to invest. You're not just getting a new baseball stadium, you're also getting Lucchino, and I honestly believe that's worth a lot.
ADD: plus, maybe he'll be distracted and stop meddling in baseball affairs in Boston.
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Post by amfox1 on May 18, 2015 7:50:05 GMT -5
Patrick Anderson ?@patrickanderso_ 5m5 minutes ago Jim Skeffington, owner of the @pawsox, has died, spokeswoman Patti Doyle confirmed
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Oct 14, 2015 9:46:07 GMT -5
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Oct 14, 2015 11:03:22 GMT -5
What a mess. The Pawsox have literally been the bastion against MFY encroachment into southern NE and the Sox fan base. And to a lesser extent the Mets.
Springfield would be a wonderful landing spot and the town apparently understands what lubricates such a move. But it would be shortsighted. The Sox AAA team by the water in RI or Ct maintains and grows a large segment of the Boston fanbase. This has been an important, if unintended, marketing strategy.
Larry and Sam, a hard-ass holding of Pawtucket or Providence or Ct feet to the fire for whatever short term financial benefits are promised, would be bad news for the Sox long term. Are you motivated to think long term?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 14, 2015 12:21:25 GMT -5
You're really overestimating how much of an effect the PawSox have on Red Sox fanship.
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Post by burythehammer on Oct 14, 2015 13:04:02 GMT -5
What a mess. The Pawsox have literally been the bastion against MFY encroachment into southern NE and the Sox fan base. I would literally love to see any evidence of this because I'm guessing there is literally zero.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 14, 2015 13:23:39 GMT -5
I went to school in Providence for four years and lived there for another four. The PawSox had absolutely no effect on locals' rooting interests, trust me. There were a ton of Yankee fans and there were more Red Sox fans. 70-30 Sox to Yankee ratio, I'd guess. It's not like if the PawSox move, they're going to put Tim Britton on the Yankees beat while keeping MacPherson on the Sox.
The PawSox will move wherever they can get the best deal and make the most money, as they should.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Oct 14, 2015 14:39:46 GMT -5
I went to school in Providence for four years and lived there for another four. The PawSox had absolutely no effect on locals' rooting interests, trust me. There were a ton of Yankee fans and there were more Red Sox fans. 70-30 Sox to Yankee ratio, I'd guess. It's not like if the PawSox move, they're going to put Tim Britton on the Yankees beat while keeping MacPherson on the Sox. The PawSox will move wherever they can get the best deal and make the most money, as they should. Maybe not. But i would thin so. I lived in Newport for several years. The fanbase was split, largely because the NYYC had held the America's Cup there forever, and the island drew NYC and Ct tourists to the numerous historic sites, many of which are tied to NYC. But we and our sometimes outnumered Sox fan neighbors and other locals would go to Pawtucket for games. It was too far to NYC or Boston for a day trip. I would say beyond question that the Pawsox kept many locals in Red Sox caps, and held some animosity against the waves of New Yorkers who took over the Museum of Tennis or Zelda's on Thames. The other close place locals would go was to Providence, where another strong pocket of mfy fans exist. Like New Haven, Lake Winnepasaukie and the Cape, NY hats are in evidence there as well.. New Englanders may go to NYC for a Show or Concert, but wealthy New Yorkers buy vacation homes throighout beautiful New England. The frisson is real. Even decades ago, our little llace on the Cape (with Yaz and his family on one side and lots of Sox fans trying to give him privacy), the neighborhood was full of mfy fans. Not always pleasant. As Tip O'Neil insisted, "All politics is local.". Having community oriented mL teams in NH and RI is local marketing for the Sox and politicking the fan base at its best. It means the Red Sox are not just Boston's team but New England's. This is especially important, likely critical, when considering the relatively small size of the Boston population. Even with all of New England residents and all of its college kids combined, the Sox population base is smaller population by millions than NYC, LA, Chicago or DFW. After spending so much time and energy building "Red Sox Nation", I would think hard before pulling the Sox out of RI for short term gain. It is not logical.
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