SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2015 Trade Deadline News and Discussion
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 31, 2015 16:57:08 GMT -5
Cespedes is one of those players, seemingly, just good enough to be traded. Fourth organization in 12 months. His contract was a huge piece of this. He had to be traded this year, and we traded him precisely because we didn't want to be in DET's position, come the trade deadline.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 31, 2015 17:03:35 GMT -5
Can't help but see the effects of the complete non-years had by Cecchini, Coyle, and Brentz here. Those were guys who'd seemed primed as second or third pieces in deals this deadline, and through injury or non-performance, have zero value right now. In what otherwise has been a banner year for the farm system (I'd argue the top 10 is as deep as it's ever been), that's been the one disappointment, that the players in that tier have regressed so heavily (although Shaw's been pretty good and Marrero's just kind of held steady - and I guess you could argue Brentz's decline had already mostly happened). Brentz, to me, is a classic AAAA player, so I don't really put him in the same category as the other two. Ben should have traded Coyle last offseason when he had the chance - we all recognized that his value would likely never be higher. Cecchini falls somewhat into that category, although I hold out a small bit of hope that he will figure it out. The classic dilemma with respect to prospects (and other investments) is knowing when to sell. Having a top organization, prospect-wise, is nice but the real trick is turning them into productive assets for your team (either through promotion or trade). Ben hinted today that they're going to use some prospects as currency to upgrade the team in the offseason. Let's hope so.
|
|
|
Post by ibsmith85 on Jul 31, 2015 17:12:50 GMT -5
Can we trade Porcello for Fulmer and Cessa and spend $20m/yr on someone else in December? Not only that, but the Hanley signing wouldn't have happened either. Therefore you have $42m/yr to sign two someone else's. But I can't quibble on this, because at the time I was all for adding both players.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2015 17:15:20 GMT -5
Cespedes is one of those players, seemingly, just good enough to be traded. Fourth organization in 12 months. I hate zero walk players, ugh.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
|
Post by nomar on Jul 31, 2015 17:17:57 GMT -5
Cespedes is one of those players, seemingly, just good enough to be traded. Fourth organization in 12 months. I hate zero walk players, ugh. If Sandoval didn't swing his bat for the next month, he would probably put up his best OBP month of the season. He gets one strike every two PAs now.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2015 17:21:30 GMT -5
Can't help but see the effects of the complete non-years had by Cecchini, Coyle, and Brentz here. Those were guys who'd seemed primed as second or third pieces in deals this deadline, and through injury or non-performance, have zero value right now. In what otherwise has been a banner year for the farm system (I'd argue the top 10 is as deep as it's ever been), that's been the one disappointment, that the players in that tier have regressed so heavily (although Shaw's been pretty good and Marrero's just kind of held steady - and I guess you could argue Brentz's decline had already mostly happened). Brentz, to me, is a classic AAAA player, so I don't really put him in the same category as the other two. Ben should have traded Coyle last offseason when he had the chance - we all recognized that his value would likely never be higher. Cecchini falls somewhat into that category, although I hold out a small bit of hope that he will figure it out. The classic dilemma with respect to prospects (and other investments) is knowing when to sell. Having a top organization, prospect-wise, is nice but the real trick is turning them into productive assets for your team (either through promotion or trade). Ben hinted today that they're going to use some prospects as currency to upgrade the team in the offseason. Let's hope so. Ya know, it doesn't hurt when it just costs money for these guys. So they blew money, big deal. It's not my money and they seem to be willing to go over the cap because they certainly won't really be hurt too much by the luxury tax after the next CBA. But be careful what you wish for when talking about trading prospects and the recent track record of swinging and missing on big transactions. I'm willing to be patient and get the best of the best prospects we have. Once we have a new core carrying the team, that's when to start filling out the leftover holes IMO. When I go look through some old trade proposal threads, it's just shockingly bad what some people would have given up and what the player turned into. I think I saw a Xander and Betts for Cliff Lee proposal somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2015 17:22:44 GMT -5
I hate zero walk players, ugh. If Sandoval didn't swing his bat for the next month, he would probably put up his best OBP month of the season. He gets one strike every two PAs now. I get that he has (had) pretty great contact rates, but when he's in a slump, he's REALLY in a slump without the walks.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
|
Post by nomar on Jul 31, 2015 17:22:52 GMT -5
I think Marco Hernandez could play his way into being an attractive trade chip for a team like SD during the offseason. Having himself a year.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 31, 2015 17:42:08 GMT -5
“@gambo987: Dave Stewart tells Burns and Gambo the Padres wanted Paul Goldschmidt from the Dbacks for closer Craig Kimbrell….WOW”
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2015 17:47:04 GMT -5
“@gambo987: Dave Stewart tells Burns and Gambo the Padres wanted Paul Goldschmidt from the Dbacks for closer Craig Kimbrell….WOW” It's like a presidential debate there.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 31, 2015 17:56:17 GMT -5
Can't help but see the effects of the complete non-years had by Cecchini, Coyle, and Brentz here. Those were guys who'd seemed primed as second or third pieces in deals this deadline, and through injury or non-performance, have zero value right now. In what otherwise has been a banner year for the farm system (I'd argue the top 10 is as deep as it's ever been), that's been the one disappointment, that the players in that tier have regressed so heavily (although Shaw's been pretty good and Marrero's just kind of held steady - and I guess you could argue Brentz's decline had already mostly happened). Brentz, to me, is a classic AAAA player, so I don't really put him in the same category as the other two. Ben should have traded Coyle last offseason when he had the chance - we all recognized that his value would likely never be higher. Cecchini falls somewhat into that category, although I hold out a small bit of hope that he will figure it out. The classic dilemma with respect to prospects (and other investments) is knowing when to sell. Having a top organization, prospect-wise, is nice but the real trick is turning them into productive assets for your team (either through promotion or trade). Ben hinted today that they're going to use some prospects as currency to upgrade the team in the offseason. Let's hope so.It depends who he's talking about, but I'd be pretty ticked if he messes with the core of the future team the Sox should be able to put out on the field for 2017/2018 just for a quick fix for 2016. What is the problem with rebuilding the right way? If fans have to be patient, so be it. Like Jimed14 says, there's nothing wrong with spending money to improve the team. Leave the kids (the best ones of course) alone and let them develop.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 31, 2015 22:57:58 GMT -5
I hate zero walk players, ugh. If Sandoval didn't swing his bat for the next month, he would probably put up his best OBP month of the season. He gets one strike every two PAs now. I still don't know why any pitcher throws Panda a strike, unless it's missed location. I'd just fly high and low on him off the plate and watch him swing himself into a hole. Conversely, if he swung only at pitches in the zone he'd likely have an OBP near .450 until the opposition adjusted.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
|
Post by nomar on Jul 31, 2015 23:11:10 GMT -5
If Sandoval didn't swing his bat for the next month, he would probably put up his best OBP month of the season. He gets one strike every two PAs now. I still don't know why any pitcher throws Panda a strike, unless it's missed location. I'd just fly high and low on him off the plate and watch him swing himself into a hole. Conversely, if he swung only at pitches in the zone he'd likely have an OBP near .450 until the opposition adjusted. Yeah. If he ever, ya know... wanted to maximize his talent and extend his career, developing discipline would be an amazing place to start.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Aug 1, 2015 1:32:29 GMT -5
This was a disappointing trade deadline. Uehara should have been moved for something, same witH Holt. I realize that most of the other (non betts/Xande) players are undesirable, but that just makes this deadline that much more depressing. At least in 2012 and 2014, the Red Sox had pieces people wanted.
|
|
|
Post by raftsox on Aug 1, 2015 5:33:29 GMT -5
This was a disappointing trade deadline. Uehara should have been moved for something, same witH Holt. I realize that most of the other (non betts/Xande) players are undesirable, but that just makes this deadline that much more depressing. At least in 2012 and 2014, the Red Sox had pieces people wanted. Blue-chip. I'm actually glad they weren't traded. Assuming normal development of young players, reasonable returns to historic levels of others, and acquiring a good starter this offseason the Sox should be very competitive next year. Trading Koji, Tazawa and Holt (the only reasonable trade pieces) would destroy the bullpen at least and probably rob us of our Pedroia backup when he inevitably gets hurt.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Aug 1, 2015 6:54:28 GMT -5
This was a disappointing trade deadline. Uehara should have been moved for something, same witH Holt. I realize that most of the other (non betts/Xande) players are undesirable, but that just makes this deadline that much more depressing. At least in 2012 and 2014, the Red Sox had pieces people wanted. Blue-chip. I'm actually glad they weren't traded. Assuming normal development of young players, reasonable returns to historic levels of others, and acquiring a good starter this offseason the Sox should be very competitive next year. Trading Koji, Tazawa and Holt (the only reasonable trade pieces) would destroy the bullpen at least and probably rob us of our Pedroia backup when he inevitably gets hurt. I wouldn't trade Tazawa. Uehara is a different matter because of his age. If I can get someone to pay for Holt like he is a league average second baseman, I'd do it. He is not a starter here. Then again, as I noted before, the most disappointing thing about this team is how few veterans it has that other teams would want, even if they were available. Of the players on the 25 man roster (excluding Xander and Rookies), who would actually bring back anything good, regardless of whether or not the Red Sox would actually want to trade them? Uehara, Holt, Tazawa, maybe Pedrioa? That's not super encouraging.
|
|
|
Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 1, 2015 7:02:26 GMT -5
I still don't know why any pitcher throws Panda a strike, unless it's missed location. I'd just fly high and low on him off the plate and watch him swing himself into a hole. Conversely, if he swung only at pitches in the zone he'd likely have an OBP near .450 until the opposition adjusted. Yeah. If he ever, ya know... wanted to maximize his talent and extend his career, developing discipline would be an amazing place to start. Paying 100m for another Will Middlebrooks was sure a winner huh? Yeah.. It's over and done with now and we can't go back and undo that one, though maybe next time the team doesn't throw biggie deals at guys who hack at everything and on a career downtrend.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Aug 1, 2015 7:52:16 GMT -5
“@gambo987: Dave Stewart tells Burns and Gambo the Padres wanted Paul Goldschmidt from the Dbacks for closer Craig Kimbrell….WOW” I saw this yesterday and thought he was crazy. Then I saw a tweet about a ridiculously light offer Stew made for Chapman and think this was just a counter to a dumb offer.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Aug 1, 2015 8:34:18 GMT -5
Can't help but see the effects of the complete non-years had by Cecchini, Coyle, and Brentz here. Those were guys who'd seemed primed as second or third pieces in deals this deadline, and through injury or non-performance, have zero value right now. In what otherwise has been a banner year for the farm system ( I'd argue the top 10 is as deep as it's ever been), that's been the one disappointment, that the players in that tier have regressed so heavily (although Shaw's been pretty good and Marrero's just kind of held steady - and I guess you could argue Brentz's decline had already mostly happened). Yup top 10 look promising in one capacity or another. After that though there is a very steep drop...as lots of guys seem to have regressed or stalled. The next 20 or so appear as flotsam...although I suspect a few will push up. Outside of Beintenti, is anyone showing promise (I know it's very early) from this year's class?
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 1, 2015 8:51:01 GMT -5
Brentz, to me, is a classic AAAA player, so I don't really put him in the same category as the other two. Ben should have traded Coyle last offseason when he had the chance - we all recognized that his value would likely never be higher. Cecchini falls somewhat into that category, although I hold out a small bit of hope that he will figure it out. The classic dilemma with respect to prospects (and other investments) is knowing when to sell. Having a top organization, prospect-wise, is nice but the real trick is turning them into productive assets for your team (either through promotion or trade). Ben hinted today that they're going to use some prospects as currency to upgrade the team in the offseason. Let's hope so. Ya know, it doesn't hurt when it just costs money for these guys. So they blew money, big deal. It's not my money and they seem to be willing to go over the cap because they certainly won't really be hurt too much by the luxury tax after the next CBA. But be careful what you wish for when talking about trading prospects and the recent track record of swinging and missing on big transactions. I'm willing to be patient and get the best of the best prospects we have. Once we have a new core carrying the team, that's when to start filling out the leftover holes IMO. When I go look through some old trade proposal threads, it's just shockingly bad what some people would have given up and what the player turned into. I think I saw a Xander and Betts for Cliff Lee proposal somewhere. Honestly the writing was on the wall for this as early as the end of the first third of a season last season. What concerns me more than anything now is panicking and not committing to that next wave which may start appearing as soon as 2017. One huge point that is seldom mentioned is the impact of losing your starting catcher and back-up within week/s of the seasons start. It seams the media and most fans don't grasp the impact it had on the young pitching staff.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Aug 1, 2015 10:00:27 GMT -5
Ya know, it doesn't hurt when it just costs money for these guys. So they blew money, big deal. It's not my money and they seem to be willing to go over the cap because they certainly won't really be hurt too much by the luxury tax after the next CBA. But be careful what you wish for when talking about trading prospects and the recent track record of swinging and missing on big transactions. I'm willing to be patient and get the best of the best prospects we have. Once we have a new core carrying the team, that's when to start filling out the leftover holes IMO. When I go look through some old trade proposal threads, it's just shockingly bad what some people would have given up and what the player turned into. I think I saw a Xander and Betts for Cliff Lee proposal somewhere. Honestly the writing was on the wall for this as early as the end of the first third of a season last season. What concerns me more than anything now is panicking and not committing to that next wave which may start appearing as soon as 2017.
One huge point that is seldom mentioned is the impact of losing your starting catcher and back-up within week/s of the seasons start. It seams the media and most fans don't grasp the impact it had on the young pitching staff. ..Xactly!!
|
|
|
Post by arzjake on Aug 1, 2015 17:57:16 GMT -5
Honestly the writing was on the wall for this as early as the end of the first third of a season last season. What concerns me more than anything now is panicking and not committing to that next wave which may start appearing as soon as 2017.
One huge point that is seldom mentioned is the impact of losing your starting catcher and back-up within week/s of the seasons start. It seams the media and most fans don't grasp the impact it had on the young pitching staff. ..Xactly!! Losing a rookie catcher had nothing to do with the lousy performance of any starting pitcher. None. The staff sucked.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Aug 1, 2015 18:00:35 GMT -5
Losing a rookie catcher had nothing to do with the lousy performance of any starting pitcher. None. The staff sucked. You're right, just stick any ol' catcher back there. They make no difference whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 1, 2015 19:31:29 GMT -5
Losing a rookie catcher had nothing to do with the lousy performance of any starting pitcher. None. The staff sucked. Comments like that make me question your knowledge of the game either that or bad hyperbole. We lost both catchers right off the bat, so we had to bring in backup expendable catchers from other teams who never even had spring training to work with the pitchers we have. That means they never had a chance to assess their strengths, weaknesses, personalities to learn how to work with them, etc. all of that had to happen on the fly plus Vasquez is a fantastic defensive catcher especially noted for stealing strikes. No matter how bad you believe our staff is for you to make such a statement is absurd a shows a true lack of understanding the game.
|
|
|
Post by arzjake on Aug 2, 2015 10:38:23 GMT -5
Losing a rookie catcher had nothing to do with the lousy performance of any starting pitcher. None. The staff sucked. Comments like that make me question your knowledge of the game either that or bad hyperbole. We lost both catchers right off the bat, so we had to bring in backup expendable catchers from other teams who never even had spring training to work with the pitchers we have. That means they never had a chance to assess their strengths, weaknesses, personalities to learn how to work with them, etc. all of that had to happen on the fly plus Vasquez is a fantastic defensive catcher especially noted for stealing strikes. No matter how bad you believe our staff is for you to make such a statement is absurd a shows a true lack of understanding the game. Im fine with you calling me out. If you call me out, please, get your facts straight. Thats all I ask. Know what your talking about before you Post. Hanigan was the starting C out of spring training he appeared in 34 games where the sox were 16 18 with a Starting Rotation ERA of 5.8, dead last in the AL. All 5 SP's worked with this C in spring training. ERod gets called up and quickly becomes a Staff Ace until his "tipping pitches issue" throwing to a Rookie C and a journeyman. None the less, 66IP 56 K's with a 4ERA. American League ERA average is 3.92. CBuc got his act together while throwing to a rookie and a Journeyman C before his injury. I would agree it would be nice to have Varitek catching 140 games. Moral of my post. iTS ABOUT PITCHING TALENT! Its about being mentally and physically prepared to pitch regardless of your C especially after working with that C for a few months. Now, go get a glass of milk and some cookies..
|
|
|