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Post by Guidas on Aug 23, 2015 12:07:06 GMT -5
Because we need pitching badly! pedroia has value, we have a 2015 all star replacement ready to play 2b everyday and Hanley has no value, even if we threw in a dumptruck load of cash and thousands of lottery tickets. In the offseason, We make a run at signing grienke. Then we have to trade players and prospects of value to the mets to get one of their good young pitchers. I am not a big fan of trading Pedroia, and I know larrycook has wanted to trade him for more than a year now, but if he was traded, I would move Mookie back to 2nd and put JBJ in CF. Holt should be traded to any GM who believes Brock is an above average, controllable everyday player and get the requisite return. He's a good player but he's not a legit All Star. To be clear, I am open to trading ANYONE depending on the retun, but the non-MLB players who would be toughest to pry away from me would be Devers, Moncada and Espinosa - and I would trade Espinosa today in a package that would get me a legit #1/2 MLB starter with 2 or more years of control and solid medical history (Gray, Sale, Thor - and I said package, not straight-up). He is SO far away and so young anything can happen. If someone really thinks he's Urias (who is far closer to MLB) then let's talk.
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 23, 2015 12:12:00 GMT -5
What don't you understand about trades? Value begets value. Hanley is a man without a position and has little value to other teams that don't need a DH and that is a very short list and he makes to much money to be attractive to other teams. Chances are they are stuck with him until his overall contract value drops aka at least one more year. This is not the one or the other deal you are trying to make it. The Sox at 2B have Betts, Holts and top prospect Yoan Mancada on the horizon too. We are stacked at second. Pedroia's extension begins next year and already many fans, beat writers and other journalist are questioning why they rushed to extend him. Most see that his best days are behind and wonder at 32 how many good years are left in the tank. I'm sure he has at least one more that is if he can stay on the field and be healthy too. I'd always trade a player a year to soon than a year to late, as this would increase the chances that other GM's would want to work with me. Say Pedroia is good next year plays 135 games and has a WAR around 4-5, then its 2017 he's 34 and is injured again his play drops due to normal aging even when he's healthy and he's what he was this year a 1.8 WAR player and continues to fizzle out there-after, what then? He's had surgery 6 of the past 9 seasons and is about to miss more than half the season for the second time. He's a small man who dives around care free balls out and is 32. It does not take a genius to figure out how this is extremely likely to play out. 2007: Broken hamate (surgery after season) 2008: No surgery or DL 2009: No surgery or DL 2010: Broken bone in foot (surgery during season); DL 2011: Foot continued (surgery at end of season) 2012: Broken finger (surgery after season); DL 2013: Torn UCL (surgery after season) 2014: Hand/wrist (surgery after season) 2015: Knee/hamstring; DL Have you not learned that by trying to win it all back in 1 yr usually the moves become forced and it sets you back again and again (perhaps the past couple of seasons would have taught you that. Ben C. is in today's globe as saying his biggest mistake was not showing more patience, just as I posted a few days ago. Often it's better to take a step back to go 2 steps forward rather than the other way around. Most GM's feel compelled to go for it now and hope to get lucky to buy job security. That approach is what dooms most of them. You build up a team that has finished last several of the past few seasons 1 step at a time. We need pitching badly. Even over a year after I floated the idea of trading Pedroia, that he was on the wrong side of 30 and has had injuries or surgery 6 of the past 8 straight seasons the fansboys cannot see the trees because they are so deep inside the forest. It's been explained by myself, and now many others too, ad nauseam with logical well laid out thoughts and in response we get, 'he's the best, he's the face of the franchise, how will I explain it to little tommy, that is souless' yadda yadda yadda. No logical responses only emotional child like ones. If you want to build a team up then having favorites has no role in that process. Look at what the Pats do, that's is how you compete year in and out. Just stop with the non-sense. 1-JUST WHAT DO YOU THINK PEDROIA WOULD GET US IN RETURN? ? Not an elite or even top end of the rotation pitcher 2- Do you realy want to go into the season with Hanley-Bradley-Castillo in the OF?? I know exactly how trades work. Other teams are going to value Devers, Moncada, Betts, ERod. These are the players that they are going to want to get young cost controlled pitching. If the FO want to do a rebuild then I agree lets trade Pedroia but if we are going to try and be competitive next season it dosnt make any sence what so ever. What trade a 4 WAR player who makes 14M$/year just because he is the guy you have that is tradable??? I realize that Betts has more value at 2B than in LF but what happens if JBJ is hitting .180 in June?? I'd say this is a very real possibility. One week of good hitting dose not gaurantee a career. DD was brought in to make this team competitive ASAP. His strength has been making trades and evaluating young talent. He will have some difficult choices but altimatly is going to have to pick witch young players/prospects to hold on to and what players he IS GOING TO TRADE to retool this roster. I think we may have to agree to disagree here and I understand the whole Billy Beane way of doing business but we have a 200$/payroll and a deep farm system. That is the answer to acquire the pitching we need.
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Post by soxrock on Aug 23, 2015 12:24:30 GMT -5
Love Dustin; however he hasn't been capable of contributing for two consecutive years now, If Dombroski can do it, he will.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 23, 2015 12:30:44 GMT -5
Love Dustin; however he hasn't been capable of contributing for two consecutive years now, If Dombroski can do it, he will. Pedroia has 6.0 fWAR in last two years and got paid about 1/3rd less than the going rate for $/WAR. You only trade him if there's some huge upgrade available, not because he's hurting the team. I personally believe he'll be worth his contract right through the end of it.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 23, 2015 12:31:35 GMT -5
Love Dustin; however he hasn't been capable of contributing for two consecutive years now, If Dombroski can do it, he will. You mean last year when he had a WAR over 4? Pedroia will probably be projected for 4 WAR or something next year at a bargain price? What the hell would you get to make it worth trading him?
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 23, 2015 12:34:03 GMT -5
The fan boys have no clue how to build a team because they are sentimental toward their binky and talk about souls and face of the franchise crap. You don't trade pennies hoping for quarters, you do trade the dime before others realize the dime is down to 2 cents. .... Simply making {a} statement does not make it true even if it's been repeated ad naseam. The fan boys cannot make a valid argument because they are talking with their hearts and refuse to listen to their heads. So far, the dime has been worth 18.72 cents. I was using simple analogies to make a point. If he's worth 18.72 cents then that value should make it even easier to attain a front end of the rotation pitcher which we badly need. I'd also sign a front end of the rotation pitcher through FA either this year or next. I'd pick up Buchholz option then when and if he's healthy next year for 2 straight months I'd see what his value would be via a trade for another front end pitcher. I'd package one of Johnson, Owens or Wright with Buchholz. The other team would have 2 insurances in the deal, Clay's second option at $13M plus the prospect. Ideally we'd get back a front end pitcher plus a young power arm for the bullpen. Then the rotation would have 3 front end rotation types (ideally at least a #1 and 2 #2's then E-Rod, Miley, Porcello. That's 6 starters there. They then could move Miley for an OF depending on how good they felt about the 2 prospects they kept out of the Buchholz deal in Owens, Johnson & Wright. That's either 7 or 8 deep with 2 guys in the minors biding their time waiting to fill in due to an injury. Then the team could trade one of the top prospects or two (perhaps Swihart and/or Margot) to fill the teams biggest need whatever it ends up being. They'd still have Moncada (3B?) Devers (1B?) and Benintendi to play whatever OF position you need and all would all be ready within a yr or two. I'd use FA to fill in the short term gaps as well as Travis Shaw until this happens. Then when the time comes I'd use those some short term players via trades to strengthen the bench/bullpen. I also don't see the Sox getting out of the Hanley deal this off-season, perhaps DD can do it as he traded Fielder and his huge deal 2 years after the fact. If he can't that problem would likely go away as he'd slide to DH unless Ortiz keeps plugging along. If the Sox can get a #1/#2 SP for Pedroia they have to try And while I enjoy reading Philip K Dick's stories I don't buy the analogy of marriage with Pedroia because the team is married to no player, the team only dates them.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 23, 2015 12:38:11 GMT -5
So far, the dime has been worth 18.72 cents. I was using simple analogies to make a point. If he's worth 18.72 cents then that value should make it even easier to attain a front end of the rotation pitcher which we badly need. I'd also sign a front end of the rotation pitcher through FA either this year or next. I'd pick up Buchholz option then when and if he's healthy next year for 2 straight months I'd see what his value would be via a trade for another front end pitcher. I'd package one of Johnson, Owens or Wright with Buchholz. The other team would have 2 insurances in the deal, Clay's second option at $13M plus the prospect. Ideally we'd get back a front end pitcher plus a young power arm for the bullpen. Then the rotation would have 3 front end rotation types (ideally at least a #1 and 2 #2's then E-Rod, Miley, Porcello. That's 6 starters there. They then could move Miley for an OF depending on how good they felt about the 2 prospects they kept out of the Buchholz deal in Owens, Johnson & Wright. That's either 7 or 8 deep with 2 guys in the minors biding their time waiting to fill in due to an injury. Then the team could trade one of the top prospects or two (perhaps Swihart and/or Margot) to fill the teams biggest need whatever it ends up being. They'd still have Moncada (3B?) Devers (1B?) and Benintendi to play whatever OF position you need and all would all be ready within a yr or two. I'd use FA to fill in the short term gaps as well as Travis Shaw until this happens. Then when the time comes I'd use those some short term players via trades to strengthen the bench/bullpen. I also don't see the Sox getting out of the Hanley deal this off-season, perhaps DD can do it as he traded Fielder and his huge deal 2 years after the fact. If he can't that problem would likely go away as he'd slide to DH unless Ortiz keeps plugging along. If the Sox can get a #1/#2 SP for Pedroia they have to try And while I enjoy reading Philip K Dick's stories I don't buy the analogy of marriage with Pedroia because the team is married to no player, the team only dates them. What we badly need is good players, not a front of the rotation starter. You realize taking 4-5 WAR from the position players and adding it to the rotation would not help at all right? I doubt Pedroia would get you a front of the rotation starter, and even if he did, it wouldn't help to make the trade.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 23, 2015 13:40:11 GMT -5
Jody, your namecalling and insults to support your anti-Pedroia bias is annoying. There is absolutely no intelligent consensus on this or any board, or among the media, to trade Pedroia. Are you listening to Mazz and his gang of pot-stirrers at CSNNE? Your total and hubris riddled harangue against those 'fanboys' who value Pedey's contributions (past and future), his leadership in the clubhouse, on the field and in the community to a very young and energetic team, the value of his team friendly contract for the process of acquiring top talent are stunning in their shortsightedness. This is not fantasy baseball. This is not fantasy baseball. This is not fantasy baseball. Also, this is a board for civil discussion, not badgering with immutable opinions. Did you see how much goodwill and support the MFY got by parading Rivera and Jeter around as their teams struggled? Did you see the support the Sox got for its honoring stars like Pedro (Fisk, Yaz, Rice, Eck, El Tiante, Remy, etc.) Pedey IS the soul of this, our MVP, ROY, GG, SS, AS, WS Champ, Captain without a C. In addition to the intangibles, he is also a superior 2B defender and hitter. With the emergence of about a dozen Sox youth for 2016, DaveD (who is NOT building a mechanically perfect fantasy team) will build around Dustin Pedroia's excellent play, unique intangibles and friendly contract. He understands that the needs for the Sox are not overwhelming and will certainly not sell his soul or the soul of the team for minor upgrades and a pitcher. He will spend $$ and trade prospects. Stop with the nagging, please.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 23, 2015 14:31:11 GMT -5
Does Pedroia have a full no trade clause or a limited one? I've heard both.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Aug 23, 2015 14:35:26 GMT -5
The idea of trading Pedroia isn't without merit, but I don't think continually calling people who don't want to trade him "fanboys" adds anything to what could otherwise be a good discussion. That said, I also don't think that referring to people who want to have a legitimate discussion of what he could be worth in a trade as "souless" is productive. When you have nothing else to add to your post beyond insulting another poster, then you've run out of (or didn't have) good discussion points.
My personal stance on Pedroia is that I wouldn't shop him nor give him away like I would others, BUT if someone asks about him in a deal, or another team (lets just call them the Cubs) offers you two or three blue chip prospects for him, you certainly explore the parameters of that deal and what other moves you could make.
One other thing is that no matter what we (realistically) do this off-season, we're going into next year with a lot of question marks, both in the rotation and in the line up. They will either be questions on if older players that underperformed this year are done (Sandoval, Hanley, Porcello), if those young players will be able to expand upon what they've shown to this point in the season (Rodriguez, Owens, Swihart, Shaw, Castillo, Bradley Jr etc), and how guys are going to come back from injury (Pedroia). That's what happens when you have a last place team.
Personally, my bet is that Porcello and Ramirez will be better than they have been this year, and that it's more likely the young players improve than that Sandoval revereses 5 years of downward trends offensively and defensively and improves or that Buchholz puts together his first healthy and good season since in five seasons. Hence my suggestions of line ups and rotations that I'd like to see us put together.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 23, 2015 14:38:39 GMT -5
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 23, 2015 14:44:47 GMT -5
Gotta trust Bradford... especially since his story was written later... Right?
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Aug 23, 2015 19:44:24 GMT -5
I will just focus on our pitching for next year. I am not a huge fan of big trades currently, so I'll focus on pitching. Price or Cueto Buehrle/Iwakuma/Fister type that does on cost us a pick or more than 2 or 3 years ERod Miley Porcello
I want to keep our young pitching for depth. Hanley and or Sandoval must go.
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Post by mandelbro on Aug 23, 2015 20:59:45 GMT -5
The idea of trading Pedroia isn't without merit, but I don't think continually calling people who don't want to trade him "fanboys" adds anything to what could otherwise be a good discussion. That said, I also don't think that referring to people who want to have a legitimate discussion of what he could be worth in a trade as "souless" is productive. When you have nothing else to add to your post beyond insulting another poster, then you've run out of (or didn't have) good discussion points.
My personal stance on Pedroia is that I wouldn't shop him nor give him away like I would others, BUT if someone asks about him in a deal, or another team (lets just call them the Cubs) offers you two or three blue chip prospects for him, you certainly explore the parameters of that deal and what other moves you could make. One other thing is that no matter what we (realistically) do this off-season, we're going into next year with a lot of question marks, both in the rotation and in the line up. They will either be questions on if older players that underperformed this year are done (Sandoval, Hanley, Porcello), if those young players will be able to expand upon what they've shown to this point in the season (Rodriguez, Owens, Swihart, Shaw, Castillo, Bradley Jr etc), and how guys are going to come back from injury (Pedroia). That's what happens when you have a last place team. Personally, my bet is that Porcello and Ramirez will be better than they have been this year, and that it's more likely the young players improve than that Sandoval revereses 5 years of downward trends offensively and defensively and improves or that Buchholz puts together his first healthy and good season since in five seasons. Hence my suggestions of line ups and rotations that I'd like to see us put together. Exactly. I was the one who got the Pedroia trade talk going in this thread. Ericmvan raised some good rebuttal points. Pedroia has been a superlative player and is still a very good one, my interest in exploring a Pedey trade is simply the fact that 2 out of the 5 most valuable position-player pieces the Red Sox control at the MLB level are 2nd basemen. Thus, if you're looking to trade for fair value you need to have value to offer in return - and if you're looking for someone with more value to another team than us, one of the two 2B is a natural conclusion. I agree with the rest of your post as well. This is how a team finishes in last. Painful as they are, barring issues we don't know about there's little point in throwing money at Ramirez/Sandoval to go away now. That option will always be there and they could very well rebound. Off topic but regardless of what the plan is for him position-wise, I'd like to see Hanley get nudged into the custody of some actual athletic trainers this offseason. The whole GET-YOKED-and-subsequently-move-around-like-a-dinosaur-from-a-50s-film offseason training plan is obviously not working and hasn't stopped him from getting hurt either. He needs to cut some of that weight and focus on functional athleticism.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 24, 2015 0:38:23 GMT -5
Jody, your namecalling and insults to support your anti-Pedroia bias is annoying. There is absolutely no intelligent consensus on this or any board, or among the media, to trade Pedroia. Are you listening to Mazz and his gang of pot-stirrers at CSNNE? Your total and hubris riddled harangue against those 'fanboys' who value Pedey's contributions (past and future), his leadership in the clubhouse, on the field and in the community to a very young and energetic team, the value of his team friendly contract for the process of acquiring top talent are stunning in their shortsightedness. This is not fantasy baseball. This is not fantasy baseball. This is not fantasy baseball. Also, this is a board for civil discussion, not badgering with immutable opinions. Did you see how much goodwill and support the MFY got by parading Rivera and Jeter around as their teams struggled? Did you see the support the Sox got for its honoring stars like Pedro (Fisk, Yaz, Rice, Eck, El Tiante, Remy, etc.) Pedey IS the soul of this, our MVP, ROY, GG, SS, AS, WS Champ, Captain without a C. In addition to the intangibles, he is also a superior 2B defender and hitter. With the emergence of about a dozen Sox youth for 2016, DaveD (who is NOT building a mechanically perfect fantasy team) will build around Dustin Pedroia's excellent play, unique intangibles and friendly contract. He understands that the needs for the Sox are not overwhelming and will certainly not sell his soul or the soul of the team for minor upgrades and a pitcher. He will spend $$ and trade prospects. Stop with the nagging, please. Actually there has been plenty of discussion of it here and elsewhere as well. www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1CAHPZY_enUS598US599&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pedroia%20trade%20rumorsI suppose I made that list up too. You are denying reality.Disccusions are taking place it just took awhile for the masses to jump on board something I've been advocating for over a year. It was obvious with Bogaerts, Betts and Vazquez in last years line-up that the Sox were rebuilding despite they claims otherwise. Those on your side ignore the long list of injuries, his age and style of play all work against that trend from stopping. If anything common sense dictates just the opposite. In fact I claimed he'd hit the DL last year and again this year, based on facts that you cannot ignore, surgery 6 of the past 8 years. Team friendly deals makes a player MORE trade-able not less as those on your side cling to. That is illogical. Unique intangibles? You mean akin to Jeter; espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/13473850/new-york-yankees-gm-told-derek-jeter-prefer-troy-tulowitzki-2010-talksRead that and tell me about intangibles again. I mention the multiple surgeries, and the injuries and how its all likely to keep happening, the fact that at 32 his best days are behind him and a real decline is right around the corner or it is at least according to Bill James and no-one on your side of the coin addresses that fact. Sorry but you act like fanboys and talk about souls and intangibles why because your clinging to your favorite player and ignoring the writing on the wall. Your are the one nagging waxing and waning poetically about days of yore when Pedey was an MVP yadda yadda yadda. Sounds nice to pound your chest about the days of old, those days are gone and your to blind to see it. And if fanboy insults you its because it's likely true and at least I'm not claiming others who don't agree are soulless. Check yourself.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 24, 2015 1:33:50 GMT -5
Thank you for, again, repeating your vision for a Red Sox team without Pedey. That is called nagging. Yes I am a fan, and a homeboy, and every other term you deem pejurative. Can't help myself.
Been likely following the Red Sox a very long time and enjoy their game as a game, believe in the value of both stats and scouts to enhance the game, and like most fans have always had favorite players, and have chosen to remain loyal to them, as long as they keep producing while being loyal to their team and team mates. Has that level of fandom become obsolete? Being loyal, and beimg appreciative used to be a virtue of we humans. Maudlin, right?
Pedroia's injuries came from his style of play, helping win the ROY, MVP, GG, 2 WS, etc which you so easily dismiss as irrelevant to 2016. I fully expect him to get injured again, and bounce back again at a high level while leading this team of young players. That seems considerably more valuable than using this unique talent (instead of the Farm) to trade for a #2 pitcher. Discussing trades is fun. Demanding trades while trivializing those who disagree is not.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 24, 2015 2:07:42 GMT -5
I actually thought of starting a new thread for this, but maybe if I put it here but in big letters, that'll have the same effect.
Mookie Betts will be more valuable as a left fielder than as a second baseman.
From 2000 to 2006, moving a player from 2B to LF cost you, on average, 12.0 runs of value per 150 games.
Since 2007, though, it's been 4.5. The theoretical value is still 12.0, but the actual value is 4.5 because there simply aren't enough good corner outfielders to go around. You can't move a LF to 2B and gain 12 runs of value because replacing him in LF has become much more difficult.
The other thing that has happened is that we discovered that Mookie is not just a very good outfielder, but a brilliant one. Given his minimal PT in CF in the minors, for him to have saved 16 runs DRS in his first 1240 innings as an MLB OF is extraordinary.
Regressed to the mean, that +16 runs turns to +12 in CF. But guys gain defensive value when you move them from CF to LF. It used to be 12 runs / 150; it's certainly less than that now, as teams play better fielders there. It has to still be at least 6, and maybe 8. That makes Mookie project to be a +18 to +20 LFer, and he can be expected to improve with experience.
Does anyone think he's going to be a +14 to +15 defender at 2B? That would make him one of the best three defensive 2B in MLB. He was regarded as a plus defender there, not plus-plus. He was -1 in his 122 innings there last year.
So he gains more defensive value when you move him to LF than he loses offensive value. The net gain may well be a win. It won't show up fully in his WAR, because WAR is designed to use long-term positional differences in order to make comparisons across eras fair. Mookie won't be a greater player because LF has become a sad dumping ground for marginal talent. But he will give you a real, practical edge. You get a LF who can hit and field like he does, and that's a rarer commodity than a 2B who can hit like that and play, say, +5 defense. It may not seem that way, but them's the facts.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 24, 2015 10:38:50 GMT -5
Thank you for, again, repeating your vision for a Red Sox team without Pedey. That is called nagging. Yes I am a fan, and a homeboy, and every other term you deem pejurative. Can't help myself. Been likely following the Red Sox a very long time and enjoy their game as a game, believe in the value of both stats and scouts to enhance the game, and like most fans have always had favorite players, and have chosen to remain loyal to them, as long as they keep producing while being loyal to their team and team mates. Has that level of fandom become obsolete? Being loyal, and beimg appreciative used to be a virtue of we humans. Maudlin, right? Pedroia's injuries came from his style of play, helping win the ROY, MVP, GG, 2 WS, etc which you so easily dismiss as irrelevant to 2016. I fully expect him to get injured again, and bounce back again at a high level while leading this team of young players. That seems considerably more valuable than using this unique talent (instead of the Farm) to trade for a #2 pitcher. Discussing trades is fun. Demanding trades while trivializing those who disagree is not. Thank you again for saying the player becomes before the team. I've been following the team since the late 70's and I had favorites, Carlton Fisk, when I was a boy. His injuries that you use as a badge of honor are a major concern going forward that you ignore, there is no way around that fact. Why will he bounce back to higher levels as he ages with a body that required surgery 6 of the past 8 seasons and he's a small man who throws his body on the line in a 10-0 game. I have not demanded a trade in fact I've said repeatedly that I would only trade him if we get what we need, a #1/#2 pitcher, of course the value would have to be similar. The team which is about to finish last 3 of the past 4 years (Where's Pedey's leadership there? ) has several holes to fill, we have precious few valuable older players to shop and he happens to be our best older chip. Sentimentality is for losers. I want the team to be relevant again and who gets traded to achieve that matters not in the end as long as they win. Do not fool yourself as you've have favorites traded away before, got upset and came back to root for the uniforms in the end. We have a difference you ultimately care more about the name on the back of the uniform and I care more about the name in the front. That same reason you love Dustin is the same attitude that a front office has to have to build a winning team, leave no stone unturned and not let sentimentality or any other distractions affect decisions that have to be made. You don't have to like it, neither do I in fact but it is what wins in the end.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 24, 2015 11:03:41 GMT -5
Some of Dustin's leadership over the last 4 years.
First player to call out Bobby V after the manager threw a fellow player under the bus. 2012
Worked with Iggy in the off season 2012/ 2013.
Worked with Xander in the off season 2014/ 2015.
Helped Nap with his swing 2015.
Is on the field most days by 3.30, but that's every year.
That's just some of the stuff we fans know. I'm guessing there's plenty more.
Would I trade him for a top of the rotation starter,Yes. I doubt that trade is out there and I hope he's on the 2016 team.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 24, 2015 11:21:59 GMT -5
Thank you for, again, repeating your vision for a Red Sox team without Pedey. That is called nagging. Yes I am a fan, and a homeboy, and every other term you deem pejurative. Can't help myself. Been likely following the Red Sox a very long time and enjoy their game as a game, believe in the value of both stats and scouts to enhance the game, and like most fans have always had favorite players, and have chosen to remain loyal to them, as long as they keep producing while being loyal to their team and team mates. Has that level of fandom become obsolete? Being loyal, and beimg appreciative used to be a virtue of we humans. Maudlin, right? Pedroia's injuries came from his style of play, helping win the ROY, MVP, GG, 2 WS, etc which you so easily dismiss as irrelevant to 2016. I fully expect him to get injured again, and bounce back again at a high level while leading this team of young players. That seems considerably more valuable than using this unique talent (instead of the Farm) to trade for a #2 pitcher. Discussing trades is fun. Demanding trades while trivializing those who disagree is not. Thank you again for saying the player becomes before the team. I've been following the team since the late 70's and I had favorites, Carlton Fisk, when I was a boy. His injuries that you use as a badge of honor are a major concern going forward that you ignore, there is no way around that fact. Why will he bounce back to higher levels as he ages with a body that required surgery 6 of the past 8 seasons and he's a small man who throws his body on the line in a 10-0 game. I have not demanded a trade in fact I've said repeatedly that I would only trade him if we get what we need, a #1/#2 pitcher, of course the value would have to be similar. The team which is about to finish last 3 of the past 4 years (Where's Pedey's leadership there? ) has several holes to fill, we have precious few valuable older players to shop and he happens to be our best older chip. Sentimentality is for losers. I want the team to be relevant again and who gets traded to achieve that matters not in the end as long as they win. Do not fool yourself as you've have favorites traded away before, got upset and came back to root for the uniforms in the end. We have a difference you ultimately care more about the name on the back of the uniform and I care more about the name in the front. That same reason you love Dustin is the same attitude that a front office has to have to build a winning team, leave no stone unturned and not let sentimentality or any other distractions affect decisions that have to be made. You don't have to like it, neither do I in fact but it is what wins in the end. So basically, we're all stupid because we aren't desperate to trade Pedroia and his contract that is at least 50% undervalued currently for an unknown return? Just stop it. If some team blew us away, they should consider it, but if not, we're not dumping him at any cost like you seem to want.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2015 12:24:21 GMT -5
Thank you for, again, repeating your vision for a Red Sox team without Pedey. That is called nagging. Yes I am a fan, and a homeboy, and every other term you deem pejurative. Can't help myself. Been likely following the Red Sox a very long time and enjoy their game as a game, believe in the value of both stats and scouts to enhance the game, and like most fans have always had favorite players, and have chosen to remain loyal to them, as long as they keep producing while being loyal to their team and team mates. Has that level of fandom become obsolete? Being loyal, and beimg appreciative used to be a virtue of we humans. Maudlin, right? Pedroia's injuries came from his style of play, helping win the ROY, MVP, GG, 2 WS, etc which you so easily dismiss as irrelevant to 2016. I fully expect him to get injured again, and bounce back again at a high level while leading this team of young players. That seems considerably more valuable than using this unique talent (instead of the Farm) to trade for a #2 pitcher. Discussing trades is fun. Demanding trades while trivializing those who disagree is not. Thank you again for saying the player becomes before the team. I've been following the team since the late 70's and I had favorites, Carlton Fisk, when I was a boy. His injuries that you use as a badge of honor are a major concern going forward that you ignore, there is no way around that fact. Why will he bounce back to higher levels as he ages with a body that required surgery 6 of the past 8 seasons and he's a small man who throws his body on the line in a 10-0 game. I have not demanded a trade in fact I've said repeatedly that I would only trade him if we get what we need, a #1/#2 pitcher, of course the value would have to be similar. The team which is about to finish last 3 of the past 4 years (Where's Pedey's leadership there? ) has several holes to fill, we have precious few valuable older players to shop and he happens to be our best older chip. Sentimentality is for losers. I want the team to be relevant again and who gets traded to achieve that matters not in the end as long as they win. Do not fool yourself as you've have favorites traded away before, got upset and came back to root for the uniforms in the end. We have a difference you ultimately care more about the name on the back of the uniform and I care more about the name in the front. That same reason you love Dustin is the same attitude that a front office has to have to build a winning team, leave no stone unturned and not let sentimentality or any other distractions affect decisions that have to be made. You don't have to like it, neither do I in fact but it is what wins in the end. What is it with you and Pedroia? I couldn't care less if the Sox trade him or not, as long as it's a good deal, but the way you've been carrying on, you'd think that when Cherington stepped down, that everybody on Soxprospects.com was named co-GMs and we should be reaching a consensus to deal him away just like you would do. Last time I checked I'm still only GM of the Red Sox in my sports fantasies, so I guess I can't help you trade Pedroia. I'm going to guess that just about everybody else posting on this site is in the same predicament. You want Pedroia traded. Got it. Let DD know he's messing up by pandering to the fanboys out there. Meanwhile I will hope that Dombrowski fixes the pitching/defense without surrendering what in my opinion would be the core of the team going forward over the next five years. Have a feeling Pedroia will have absolutely nothing to do with any of this whatsoever.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 25, 2015 23:20:32 GMT -5
6-3-2015 " Traded Joe Gunkel to Baltimore for Alejandro De Aza and cash considerations. " This article claims that the Sox are only paying $1M of De Aza's $5M contract. Which would leave $250k owed by an acquiring team for September. "He is only costing the Red Sox $1 million, so he appears to be an affordable rental if the Giants jump back into the trade market." www.mlbdailydish.com/2015/8/24/9198255/giants-trade-rumors-alejandro-de-azaWe must assume DeAza cleared waivers ...
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Post by jdb on Aug 26, 2015 7:20:22 GMT -5
The way Margot is hitting in AA I'm not sure he could headline a deal right now. At least not for type of starter we need.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 26, 2015 7:35:14 GMT -5
The way Margot is hitting in AA I'm not sure he could headline a deal right now. At least not for type of starter we need. He's a plus defender, doesn't strike out much, is a plus runner, and was only 20 this year. His muscular build also suggests he may grow into some power when he's older. I don't think his slash line matters too much. He's one of the game's premier prospects. I hope he gets one more hot streak in before the season ends, but he's very desirable IMO.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 26, 2015 9:32:17 GMT -5
It is noticeable that a number of the good prospects have trended down some in the past few weeks. I suspect that fatigue is part of it.
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