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jodyreidnichols
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 26, 2015 2:56:49 GMT -5
Can't be much worse than his LF play this year. Considering the amount of times he'd be involved in the play from 1B compated to LF, I'm not so sure. If he's terrible at digging out low throws, or any errant throws, other infielders could eventually just start eating them on any potential close play. In other words a firstbasemen has the potential to make all the other infielders worse.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 26, 2015 5:39:44 GMT -5
I'm worried about footwork around the bag. It seems like a small thing but I could see finding the base without looking at it being tough for a guy with his apparent lack of baseball aptitude (or maybe he just doesn't care).
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Post by thebogeyman on Aug 26, 2015 9:37:32 GMT -5
Did you all see this quote? I found it pretty hilarious.
"We got Jackie, we got Mookie, we got the Cuban guy -- what's his name? I know his name -- they cover a lot of ground out there," Ramirez said. "It's what we need. You want young blood out there, hustling and diving all over the place."
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Post by raindelay on Aug 26, 2015 10:06:31 GMT -5
Hanley being an adequate 1st baseman is totally wishful thinking. Like wishing Boston will be 80 degrees in January. Not going to happen. He's not athletic enough, not committed enough, not anything enough. He's hit 9 homers since May 1st, one after AS break. He's hit a ball on the fly off the monster exactly twice all season. He's a living baseball disaster, for the low, low price of 22 million per. DD is putting him there to make him a little more marketable. I think he's washed up. If his name was Joe Jones, he would have been DFA'd a month ago.
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Post by awall on Aug 26, 2015 10:14:05 GMT -5
He's a DH. I really wish we could know who was the driving force behind signing him.
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Post by thegoo13 on Aug 26, 2015 10:21:26 GMT -5
Hanley being an adequate 1st baseman is totally wishful thinking. Like wishing Boston will be 80 degrees in January. Not going to happen. He's not athletic enough, not committed enough, not anything enough. He's hit 9 homers since May 1st, one after AS break. He's hit a ball on the fly off the monster exactly twice all season. He's a living baseball disaster, for the low, low price of 22 million per. DD is putting him there to make him a little more marketable. I think he's washed up. If his name was Joe Jones, he would have been DFA'd a month ago. His season went south right after hitting his shoulder on the wall in LF. I have no inside information or anything, but I just wonder sometimes if he is playing a little more banged up than we know? He was killing it before that injury. Also, you don't know for sure that he can't be an adequate 1st baseman. What you and everyone else knows is that his is the worst OF'er in MLB. What is known is that he cannot play LF. That is for sure. Would I agree with you that the odds are not in his favor? Yes. However I would have never thought Napoli would have been as good at first as he was. Not saying Hanley will be anything close to what Napoli was. What I am saying is that you have to wait and see. One other thing on the Hanley situation. If it is true that it took the DD hiring to even confront the fact that Hanley HAD to be moved out of LF and the only logical options here were Hanley at 1B or Hanley at 3B and Panda at 1B then as much as I liked BC as GM that is telling. To me the next move should be JBJ to CF, Mookie to LF and Rusney stays in RF. Rusney has the better arm for RF. I know it has already been mentioned that Castillo goes to LF and JBJ is in RF, but for 2016 if everyone is once again being honest with themselves the best defensive OF on the team is clearly JBJ and he should be playing CF. Makes us a better team.
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Post by juanpena on Aug 26, 2015 10:22:01 GMT -5
-- He will have solid range. He's one year away from projecting to be a -7 SS, which requires hugely more range.. He's one year and about 20 pounds of bulk away from his days at shortstop. Hanley got too big in the offseason, really limiting his mobility. It would be nice in the offseason is he changes his workouts and reshapes his body that allows him to be quicker and more flexible. He'd still be strong enough to hit homers.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 26, 2015 10:24:32 GMT -5
Good points all, but he isn't Joe Jones. He has been one of the best hitters in baseball for a long time and os still young. He is taking reps at 1B because he is hoping to atay with the Sox and Big Papi in 2016. He may fail,, but he sure seemed intent on learning the job. If he can be average defensively and regain his bat, he is actually a better option to replace Na than most of what is available in FA or trade. And Shaw backimg 1B and 3B ifurther mproves both positions. And imagine a full year of Mookie, JBJ, Rusney?!?! Is that light at the end of the Fnway tunnel?
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Post by awall on Aug 26, 2015 10:25:53 GMT -5
Hanley being an adequate 1st baseman is totally wishful thinking. Like wishing Boston will be 80 degrees in January. Not going to happen. He's not athletic enough, not committed enough, not anything enough. He's hit 9 homers since May 1st, one after AS break. He's hit a ball on the fly off the monster exactly twice all season. He's a living baseball disaster, for the low, low price of 22 million per. DD is putting him there to make him a little more marketable. I think he's washed up. If his name was Joe Jones, he would have been DFA'd a month ago. His season went south right after hitting his shoulder on the wall in LF. I have no inside information or anything, but I just wonder sometimes if he is playing a little more banged up than we know? He was killing it before that injury. Also, you don't know for sure that he can't be an adequate 1st baseman. What you and everyone else knows is that his is the worst OF'er in MLB. What is known is that he cannot play LF. That is for sure. Would I agree with you that the odds are not in his favor? Yes. However I would have never thought Napoli would have been as good at first as he was. Not saying Hanley will be anything close to what Napoli was. What I am saying is that you have to wait and see. Napoli was an excellent first baseman before he got here, iirc.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 26, 2015 10:28:01 GMT -5
Typos. Sorry. Cant find my glasses
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 26, 2015 11:47:13 GMT -5
Did you all see this quote? I found it pretty hilarious. "We got Jackie, we got Mookie, we got the Cuban guy -- what's his name? I know his name -- they cover a lot of ground out there," Ramirez said. "It's what we need. You want young blood out there, hustling and diving all over the place." This is Ramirez reading the handwriting on the wall, even if he can't quite make out all the words. Speier had a link to a Globe story about Shaw in a recent 108 Stiches post, about how dis-respected he felt in college and coming up through the minors. Lots of comments about how he wasn't making it on talent but because of his father Jeff, who'd played in the majors. He used that as constant motivation. This move with Hanley should re-ignite that old flame. Two possible scenarios here, both of which have been mentioned on the site: - If Ramirez looks like he can handle first, he would have more trade value.
- The team could sell high on Shaw if Hanley proves out.
The FO may be playing it by ear on this, with either option eventually possible.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 26, 2015 13:23:32 GMT -5
Did you all see this quote? I found it pretty hilarious. "We got Jackie, we got Mookie, we got the Cuban guy -- what's his name? I know his name -- they cover a lot of ground out there," Ramirez said. "It's what we need. You want young blood out there, hustling and diving all over the place." This is Ramirez reading the handwriting on the wall, even if he can't quite make out all the words. Speier had a link to a Globe story about Shaw in a recent 108 Stiches post, about how dis-respected he felt in college and coming up through the minors. Lots of comments about how he wasn't making it on talent but because of his father Jeff, who'd played in the majors. He used that as constant motivation. This move with Hanley should re-ignite that old flame. Two possible scenarios here, both of which have been mentioned on the site: - If Ramirez looks like he can handle first, he would have more trade value.
- The team could sell high on Shaw if Hanley proves out.
The FO may be playing it by ear on this, with either option eventually possible. Of course, the third scenario is likeliest: you have yourselves a solid 1B for next year, and an excellent backup 1B / 3B, backing up two guys with health issues.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 26, 2015 13:26:20 GMT -5
-- He will have solid range. He's one year away from projecting to be a -7 SS, which requires hugely more range.. He's one year and about 20 pounds of bulk away from his days at shortstop. Hanley got too big in the offseason, really limiting his mobility. It would be nice in the offseason is he changes his workouts and reshapes his body that allows him to be quicker and more flexible. He'd still be strong enough to hit homers. When I cite the -7, I'm talking about the skill set, e.g, the hand-eye coordination that allows you to field ground balls. I agree 100% (and I think everyone does) that he needs to tweak his body with a better off-season workout regimen.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 26, 2015 14:37:15 GMT -5
If Butter's can help Hanley be even a below average 1b, he deserves a life time contract. With a clause that says he can't be anywhere near the 3b coaching box. Good luck sir.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 26, 2015 15:08:39 GMT -5
Did you all see this quote? I found it pretty hilarious. "We got Jackie, we got Mookie, we got the Cuban guy -- what's his name? I know his name -- they cover a lot of ground out there," Ramirez said. "It's what we need. You want young blood out there, hustling and diving all over the place." This is Ramirez reading the handwriting on the wall, even if he can't quite make out all the words. Speier had a link to a Globe story about Shaw in a recent 108 Stiches post, about how dis-respected he felt in college and coming up through the minors. Lots of comments about how he wasn't making it on talent but because of his father Jeff, who'd played in the majors. He used that as constant motivation. This move with Hanley should re-ignite that old flame. Two possible scenarios here, both of which have been mentioned on the site: - If Ramirez looks like he can handle first, he would have more trade value.
[/b] [li]The team could sell high on Shaw if Hanley proves out.[/li] [/ul]The FO may be playing it by ear on this, with either option eventually possible. [/quote] This totally the reason I am all for the "attempt". IF, and certainly that is a BIG IF, he can play 3 or 4 times at first before the season ends and doesn't embarrass himself....it is big help trying to "pan" him off to someone else. " Can't you see Hanley does have a position! The best scenario is he is adequate in the field and he comes back next year killing it at the plate, but IMO the next plan is to move him. Shaw would be a nice back-up for both Panda and the new Dr. Strangeglove.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 26, 2015 16:19:32 GMT -5
Can't be much worse than his LF play this year. Considering the amount of times he'd be involved in the play from 1B compated to LF, I'm not so sure. If he's terrible at digging out low throws, or any errant throws, other infielders could eventually just start eating them on any potential close play. In other words a firstbasemen has the potential to make all the other infielders worse. If he's going to be terrible at digging out low throws, he would have been unable to ever field a medium- to hard-hit ground ball, since he has to do that while moving, the ball gets there much more quickly, and has unpredictable spin to boot. And the Red Sox would not be moving him to 1B, because they presumably have watched video of Hanley playing SS to see how good he was at fielding hard one-hoppers. Average at that translates to good at errant throws. (I've made this point about five times now ... Is it asking too much of posters that they read the existing discussion?) I'm worried about footwork around the bag. It seems like a small thing but I could see finding the base without looking at it being tough for a guy with his apparent lack of baseball aptitude (or maybe he just doesn't care). Now, this is a worthwhile and excellent point. Hanley almost unquestionably has the requisite skills to play an adequate 1B because they are the same skills required of a SS, only to a much lesser degree. The concern is his ability to learn to apply the skills. Lovullo or Butterfield was running down the list of all the things Hanley had to learn to transfer his SS skills to 1B (where his subpar skills play as solid), and it was very easy to imagine Hanley's head exploding.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 26, 2015 16:38:47 GMT -5
I've read all the discussion Eric. You can make a point 5 times or 10. The Hanley that played SS no longer exists. He is stiff, runs with a slight limp, and was bad at SS when he didn't have those problems. I hope he can play 1b because it will help the team. Doubting he can just means people have been watching.
A hard hit grounder in the outfield is nothing like a throw in the dirt at first.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 26, 2015 17:35:14 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 18:08:59 GMT -5
How so? I can definitely see a conversation that went something along the lines of:
Dombrowski: Hanley's killing us in left field. Any ideas?
Staff: We've talked about moving him to first.
Dombrowski: But he was blocked by Napoli.
Staff: Yeah, so that had to change. And then Ben wanted to give Shaw a look see.
Dombrowski: Shaw's not a long term solution. We all know that. Get Hanley up to speed at first.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 26, 2015 18:15:39 GMT -5
He said "a period of time." He didn't say how long that period of time was — it could be anything really. So it may have coincided with Trader Dave's arrival.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 26, 2015 18:26:43 GMT -5
I've read all the discussion Eric. You can make a point 5 times or 10. The Hanley that played SS no longer exists. He is stiff, runs with a slight limp, and was bad at SS when he didn't have those problems. I hope he can play 1b because it will help the team. Doubting he can just means people have been watching. A hard hit grounder in the outfield is nothing like a throw in the dirt at first.I make a point 5 or 10 times because people keep on making the same assertions that I've already rebutted or acknowledged, without any counter-arguments. It sure as hell looks like they haven't read the discussion. What is mostly going on, of course, is that people (not people on Internet message boards, human beings in general) aren't all that interested in engaging rationally with an argument that contradicts a feeling they've already settled on. But when you're on an Internet message board, and there's a discussion going on that is attempting to analyze something rationally, it really adds nothing to assert your feeling again after people (not necessarily me, any of the other excellent posters here) have demonstrated that it doesn't make a lot of sense. Bold point 1: we all agree that he has to change his body this winter to get some of his SS mobility back. That's entirely doable. Bold point 2: I'm talking about hard-hit grounders at SS, that he fielded adequately for his entire career, and I'll point out for the 6th to 11th time that indeed, they're not that much like throws in the dirt -- they're much more difficult to field. What bugs me particularly about this discussion is that I'm hardly being a polyanna about his future at 1B. The idea of Hanley having to learn the position is frankly terrifying. His inability to play it all that correctly, in terms of where to go and what to do on the field, is a real fear. I'm trying to look at the fears we all have and figure out where they're coming from, and discover thereby which of them are legitimate and which aren't. The notion that Hanley Ramirez was always a terrible defensive ballplayer has some element of truth, but it has everything to do with instincts and execution, and less than nothing to do with athleticism, which he always had, and which he can recover adequately with any kind of good off-season workout regimen. The idea that he won't have the athletic skills to play 1B, which is a common fear here, comes from starting with the whole mixed-bag package, focusing on the shortcomings, and then failing to separate that bad stuff from what was OK. The real fear has nothing with his ability to do the fundamental basic skills like fielding grounders and picking throws, which fortunately is about 80% of the job (number pulled from orifice). It's the other 20% (but fortunately only 20%) that's driving all of this dread. The real fear is that when I said he had the baseball instincts of a kumquat, that was an insult to kumqauats.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 26, 2015 18:34:50 GMT -5
My bad on the grounders ,I did read that wrong.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 26, 2015 19:32:54 GMT -5
The notion that Hanley Ramirez was always a terrible defensive ballplayer has some element of truth, but it has everything to do with instincts and execution, and less than nothing to do with athleticism, which he always had, and which he can recover adequately with any kind of good off-season workout regimen. The idea that he won't have the athletic skills to play 1B, which is a common fear here, comes from starting with the whole mixed-bag package, focusing on the shortcomings, and then failing to separate that bad stuff from what was OK. The real fear has nothing with his ability to do the fundamental basic skills like fielding grounders and picking throws, which fortunately is about 80% of the job (number pulled from orifice). It's the other 20% (but fortunately only 20%) that's driving all of this dread. The real fear is that when I said he had the baseball instincts of a kumquat, that was an insult to kumqauats.The problem with your argument is it lacks any simplicity, it appears as though you are trying hard here. There is nothing wrong with trying him out at first to see if he can play the position, but the bolded part is pure poppycock. It appears at times as though he can't even hustle to get to misplayed balls, that's got nothing to due with instincts, execution or athleticism. It's about being the best he can be and he needs to show that to alot of people. If he did, he'd get a lot less grief.
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duda
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Post by duda on Aug 26, 2015 20:10:10 GMT -5
I think the concern is that most of us want to extrapolate the fact that he hasn't improved at all in left combined with the way he APPEARS to half hustling after the ball and can't bend to assume that he won't redo his body and won't commit the time and effort needed to make himself into a passable first baseman. I don't know if that is fair or not but I am guessing that I am not the only one who feels this way. Is it also fair to not want him at first because he will be around the ball much more frequently than he is in left?
Finally does Hanley usually play winter ball? If he doesn't should be disappointed if he doesn't take it upon himself to find a team and get some action at first prior to spring training?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 26, 2015 21:27:32 GMT -5
He can barely stay healthy as is. Doubt he plays winter ball at his age
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