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Guns...
Nov 23, 2015 12:33:17 GMT -5
Post by redsoxnh2014 on Nov 23, 2015 12:33:17 GMT -5
Maybe if kids weren't untouchable, literally, then they would learn some respect for society. These kids have no fear, because they can't be touched. Acting out in class. Teacher: "go to the office" Student: "no you can't make me" Then nothing happens. You get a cop who loses his job for wrestling a student who's refusing to move out of a chair. Are you kidding me? Seriously, even if the student broke an arm, I'd blame the student there. No I'm not for child abuse, but there is a distinct reason why for millennia youngsters were disciplined with some force. Now you can't even grab a kids arm without it being child abuse and discipline goes to ****. Couldn't agree more with everything you said. Complete and utter lack of discipline is resulting in a wave of young people with a ridiculously inflated sense of entitlement |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2015 12:30:36 GMT -5
Wow now you are just being ridiculous. I never even insinuated other people should go around beating children. Their own or others. Nor did I advocate cops breaking arms.
News flash: cops occasionally need to put their hands on people to move them from where they are not supposed to be. If said person, reacts physically and gets hurt that's that persons fault not the officers. Said officer shouldn't be in trouble. I said the thing about a broken arm to point out this guy lost his job when there wasn't even injury done to the student and even if there were an injury like a broken arm it wouldn't be the cops fault.
You're third point is just so over the top it's not even worth talking about. Giving your kid a smack on the bum and stoning them to death are pretty similar tho so I can somewhat see your point.
Way to go overboard
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 6, 2016 2:19:36 GMT -5
After what seems like the 1,275,317 mass shooting in the US this century my question is when, if ever, are we going to do something about the problem?
For full disclosure I am very liberal. I characterize my politics as Libertarian Socialist (google it if you don't know it, but it is very similar to what Noam Chomsky espouses). But I am not anti-gun. In fact in my view people should have the right to bear arms, a right given to us by our founders. I am also an environmentalist who has no problem with hunting. I think hunters help fill the void left by the expiration of all the alpha predators in our ecosystem. Most behave in an ethical way making sure that they hunt humanely to minimize the suffering of the prey animals, and only take animals that are in plentiful supply (except that jerk dentist from Minnesota who thought it was cool to kill an endangered species for a big fee).
BUT
Houston, we have a problem. This country is heavily armed with basically no constraints on who can legally purchase guns. Background checks are minimal at best and many people who have mental illnesses, or are mentally unstable, have absolutely no problem getting guns, and as many of them as they want.
I live in Connecticut. So I followed the aftermath of the Newtown shooting very closely. I could never figure out the parental wisdom of allowing a child who exhibits mental health issues to have access to firearms. In fact not only was he allowed to have firearms he was encouraged to do so. Fast forward to Oregon and it was almost exactly the same case except the shooter didn't kill mom before going on his rampage.
I understand the gun culture. I know gun enthusiast parents introduce their kids to guns at a very young age. In fact I can remember a case about 20+ years ago when an eight year old kid was killed at a gun show in western Massachusetts when his father let him operate an Uzi, which the kid wasn't strong enough to control and ended up shooting himself in the head. Something was done in the wake of that tragedy to make sure it wasn't repeated but nothing is being done about our ongoing national self massacre.
There has been a lot of talk by gun proponents about the need for mental health screenings/care instead of stricter gun laws. I am all in favor of that. But it needs to be paid for. Are gun owners willing to accept a tax when purchasing guns and/or ammo to fund it? It is their hobby that is causing a need for this to be done. Safe to say I am all in favor of better mental health care in this country because dumping mentally ill people on the street or locking them up just because of mental illness is no care at all. Never mind allowing the mentally ill access to high powered weaponry.
Also some thoughts about the gun "zealots", as I call them. It is almost like a cult where the gun is worshipped. No limits can be placed on gun ownership up to, and including, owning tanks in some of these zealot's minds. My ex-business partner was a NRA instructor and one of these zealots. Often times these zealots claim we need to be armed just in case we have to rise up against our government in case it becomes tyrannical. I am sorry, but if you think your tiny cache of weapons will be any kind of impediment to a US military takeover of this country you are delusional and thereby disqualified to own guns under the mental health exclusion. Jade Helm is not an exercise by the US government to practice sending out the black helicopters to seize all your guns, send you to FEMA indoctrination centers, and to force you into gay marriage under the tyranny of affordable health care. But it seems people opposed to any kind of common sense limits on gun ownership see conspiracies everywhere, including the "any limit on the guns we own will result in a complete loss of 2nd amendment rights. I am going to use an extreme, and intentionally inflammatory analogy. If we apply the pro-gun lobby's absolutist logic to the 1st amendment it should be legal to possess child pornography since any limit on speech represents a complete loss of 1st amendment rights. Limits are rightly put on the 1st amendment and there is no reason some much needed limits can't be put on the 2nd amendment. I find a lot of your views as crazy and you sound like you know very little about gun laws. I take it you don't have a gun permit? If you did you would know that saying there are basically no constraints on who can legally buy guns and background checks are very minimal at best is wrong. The thing you fail to understand is that states have there own gun laws. While what you say might be true in Vermont, it's dead wrong in Massachusetts. In Mass only people with a gun permit can buy guns and they take 3-6 months to get. You have to meet Police Chief and have interview where you answer like a hundred questions, have pictures and fingerprints taken. They then do a very in-depth background check. They also require you take a gun safety course. They also only allow you to purchase about 25% of guns currently on market. They limited magazine limits to 10 rounds and require extra safety measures like stiffer trigger pulls, etc. They have some of the stiffer gun laws in country. Now Vermont is just about the opposite. Anyone 18 or older can purchase a gun with a simple driver license and you can get most guns that are on market. Now guess which state has more mass shootings? It's not Vermont. Oh course I agree mass shootings are a major problem in this country, but stricter gun laws won't change that. I also don't think mentally ill people are the biggest issue, not even close. The biggest issue is how many poor people the richest country in the world has that really have no chance to make anything with their lives. These people turn to things like the drug trade and many other illecit acts to make money. This is where most mass shootings come from. Everyone remembers the school shootings for years, but they are a small percentage of mass shootings in this country. You want to cut down on mass shootings, it's simple help the lower class be not so poor and give them a chance at the American dream. I see welfare as part of the problem, it needs a complete overhaul. The War on drugs needs to stop and we need to switch to helping people rather then locking them up. We need much better education and access to college for lower income people. We need to do a much better job at making sure our young people have the skills needed for today's jobs. Reduce income inequality and you will see a decrease in mass shootings. |
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Post by costpet on Apr 6, 2016 6:46:54 GMT -5
The most dangerous organization in this country is the NRA. And they've been that for a long time. Now, they are backing a measure to allow guns at any age. Little kids with real ones. What could go wrong there? They're even producing guns with kids in mind...pretty ones, little ones, fits in young hands like a glove. "I gave my 6 year old his first gun for Christmas." Awww, how sweet. Even ISS would think that's a little crazy.
Open carry at the GOP convention is one of my favorites. I call it culling. Not a bad idea.
Mass shootings have nothing to do with the drug trade. Drug trade killings are usually individual ones. The mass ones are by angry, crazy people. They're the ones who shoot at theaters or schools, or other crowded places. They're the most dangerous ones. I think keeping guns away from the mentally ill seems reasonable. Unless you're mentally ill.
On average we kill 33 people a day with a gun. On average 58 people a day commit suicide with a gun. Makes it easy. The rest of the world think we're out of our minds. They might be right.
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Post by dawnbringr on Apr 6, 2016 8:07:57 GMT -5
Wow.
I'm formerly from New England, and I dearly miss the seafood, noreaster's,, and of course,, the Red Sox.
But I sure don't miss the brain-dead "liberals" that live there.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 6, 2016 8:11:59 GMT -5
Over 200,000 Americans are killed each year by either medical error or by taking legally prescribed drugs as directed. And yet the news is a giant unopposed advertisement for all the wonderful new drugs for new diseases and disorders they come up with every year. There is no fear mongering whatsoever going on regarding going to the doctor and trusting everything they say as the ultimate authority despite all of these deaths, lest be labeled crazy conspiracy theorist like I'm sure someone will do for me. On a related note, 10 million children in the United States are now on brain altering psych medication mostly due to forced psych screenings at school with parents who are too naive to question the fact that there is no scientific test to determine if someone is mentally ill. It's interesting that other countries which don't have the same issues with so much medical induced death and mass shootings put just about no children on brain chemistry altering drugs with dangerous side effects.
A little perspective is in order. Guns don't kill nearly that many if you're not including government using guns to kill people all over the world. I oppose all killing, and especially government sanctioned killing. But gun control isn't about limiting government's ownership or use of guns so it doesn't apply here. And I've said this earlier in this thread, but how insane is it to expect the government who is running illegal guns all over the world for decades to accomplish anything positive with gun control?
I'm personally way more concerned with government and their ever-expanding power as people demand them to "accomplish" more and more while failing miserably at every attempt to improve any problem (which is on purpose to get more funding and more power) than I am with getting shot in a mass shooting.
There is only one way that gun control would reduce gun violence, and that is if someone could decide that guns were no longer allowed to exist and then poof they were all gone. Since that is unlikely, gun control only applies to people who care to follow the law. But then again, they don't teach logic in school anymore on purpose.
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Post by costpet on Apr 6, 2016 9:17:23 GMT -5
Even the Red Sox have some gun nut fans.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 6, 2016 9:51:52 GMT -5
Even the Red Sox have some gun nut fans. And some government can do no wrong fans. On a personal note, I don't own a gun. |
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Post by costpet on Apr 6, 2016 9:59:02 GMT -5
The GOP says they won't vote on a Supreme Court Nominee until the NRA says they can. That's who's running the govt? The last time I touched a gun was when I was in the Army. That was enough.
PS The govt does wrong all the time. That's why we have elections.
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 10:25:28 GMT -5
Post by bacricher on Apr 6, 2016 10:25:28 GMT -5
The anti-gun nuts amaze me...
There's literally millions and millions of guns and millions and millions of gun owners in this country and nearly ZERO gun crimes committed by legal gun owners with legally acquired guns. In November of last year there were over 200 million incidents of legal gun owners with millions of loaded guns roaming the country side with minimal, if any at all, gun deaths and absolutely no "mass shootings'...
Virtually all gun crimes in this country are committed by illegal gun owners with illegally acquired guns. And the number of deaths greatly outweigh the numbers compared to legal gun ownership death.
It's ridiculous
Legal drivers kill more people than legal gun owners
Legal drinkers kill more people than legal gun owners
Legal abortions kill more people than legal gun owners
Legal tobacco consumers kill more people than legal gun owners
Legal watercraft owners kill more people than legal gun owners
Legal knife owners kill more people than legal gun owners
But the anti-gun nuts to call for the ban of boats, kinves, cars, booze, abortions, etc.
It's insane for anyone to look at gun stats and ignore the facts that I just posted and claim guns are an issue. Only 1 of them is a constitutional right, and its the only one that gets attacked, villified and attempted to be controlled by ridiculous legislation year after year after year.
Talk about a mental disorder...
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 10:32:27 GMT -5
Post by bacricher on Apr 6, 2016 10:32:27 GMT -5
One more not before the loonies froth at the mouth attempting to use their percepction to argue the actual facts...
I dont know anybody killed by a gun, legally or illegally, outside of combat, and not including suicide. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA
I know many different people that were killed by legal automibiles, watercrafts, motorcycles, buses, drunk drivers, work place/tools, drugs, prescriptions and abortions.
I'd argue that its the same for 95% of this community and 95% of the 320+ million residents of this great country
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 6, 2016 10:40:13 GMT -5
The GOP says they won't vote on a Supreme Court Nominee until the NRA says they can. That's who's running the govt? The last time I touched a gun was when I was in the Army. That was enough. PS The govt does wrong all the time. That's why we have elections. Right, that's why you don't grant them the monopoly on violence with guns. I am not advocating violence since that is government's job and I detest any violence whatsoever, but I am advocating that people be armed to make government officials less willing to invade people's homes for whatever special new threat they are supposedly protecting us from next, imagined or not. And elections don't change anything. When you grant government more power, it is never given up, even when the people you don't like are in power. And by the way, I'm not a Republican or a Libertarian. I don't like any of them. The only good politician would be a reluctant one. But the way it's setup now, only sociopaths are drawn to the profession. |
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 10:50:05 GMT -5
Post by costpet on Apr 6, 2016 10:50:05 GMT -5
There are about 300 million guns in this country. There are about 300 million people in this country. So, on average, one for every man, woman, and (ahem) child. If guns make you safe, we should be the safest country in the world. Are we?
You may not like the govt, but we have to have one. Hopefully, they will act in the best interests of everyone, not just the special few.
Anyway, we are not here to save the country. We are here to save the Red Sox from starting Panda at 3rd. So far, so good.
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 10:56:45 GMT -5
Post by bacricher on Apr 6, 2016 10:56:45 GMT -5
Are we?
I am
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 11:21:18 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Apr 6, 2016 11:21:18 GMT -5
There are about 300 million guns in this country. There are about 300 million people in this country. So, on average, one for every man, woman, and (ahem) child. If guns make you safe, we should be the safest country in the world. Are we? You may not like the govt, but we have to have one. Hopefully, they will act in the best interests of everyone, not just the special few. Anyway, we are not here to save the country. We are here to save the Red Sox from starting Panda at 3rd. So far, so good. Guns don't make us safe. And neither does this government when they pass gun control legislation. Are we talking about reality or something that will simply make you feel better because at least they appear to be trying like in the middle east or in the drug war? |
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 12:46:52 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 6, 2016 12:46:52 GMT -5
The most dangerous organization in this country is the NRA. And they've been that for a long time. Now, they are backing a measure to allow guns at any age. Little kids with real ones. What could go wrong there? They're even producing guns with kids in mind...pretty ones, little ones, fits in young hands like a glove. "I gave my 6 year old his first gun for Christmas." Awww, how sweet. Even ISS would think that's a little crazy. Open carry at the GOP convention is one of my favorites. I call it culling. Not a bad idea. Mass shootings have nothing to do with the drug trade. Drug trade killings are usually individual ones. The mass ones are by angry, crazy people. They're the ones who shoot at theaters or schools, or other crowded places. They're the most dangerous ones. I think keeping guns away from the mentally ill seems reasonable. Unless you're mentally ill. On average we kill 33 people a day with a gun. On average 58 people a day commit suicide with a gun. Makes it easy. The rest of the world think we're out of our minds. They might be right. You get that mass shootings and public mass shootings are two very different things right? Mass shootings is two or more victims of gun violence, where public mass shooting is the two or more victims but in a public place. About 1 in 6 mass shootings are public mass shootings. The majority of mass shootings are drug related or have to do with other illegal acts. Another leading cause is family problems. A large amount of mass shootings involve family members and intimate partners. I know that doesn't fit your agenda, but it's a fact. Sure we should keep guns away from mentally ill people, the problem is how do you do that? There is no way, that's what doctor after doctor has said. Most of these guys were the weird kid while you were in school, but they're weren't any signs that they were going to commit a mass shooting. These guys just snapped. So the gun used for a suicide is the issue?? Shouldn't you wanna look at what made the person wanna commit suicide? How many people a day commit suicide without a gun a day? |
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 13:52:02 GMT -5
Post by costpet on Apr 6, 2016 13:52:02 GMT -5
I have no idea how they do it other ways, but guns get the job done right. The ones that slit their wrists are just looking for attention. I have a niece who did that 7 times. They don't want to die. They just want someone to pay attention to them. Teenagers are usually in that category. The ones that actually use a gun (like I said, 58 a day) want it to happen. And it usually does.
Gun legislation? When did that happen? Congress wants no part of that. The NRA has them by the gonads, so nothing will happen there. So, I guess you're safe from that. Try not to shoot your eye out.
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 14:24:41 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 6, 2016 14:24:41 GMT -5
I have no idea how they do it other ways, but guns get the job done right. The ones that slit their wrists are just looking for attention. I have a niece who did that 7 times. They don't want to die. They just want someone to pay attention to them. Teenagers are usually in that category. The ones that actually use a gun (like I said, 58 a day) want it to happen. And it usually does. Gun legislation? When did that happen? Congress wants no part of that. The NRA has them by the gonads, so nothing will happen there. So, I guess you're safe from that. Try not to shoot your eye out. 117 suicides happen a day in US, 58 by gun and 59 by other means. So if someone wants to die they will find a way. This is not a gun problem. Now I'm sorry to hear about your niece, but like you said she didn't want to die, so not sure how that has anything to do with guns. The NRA doesn't have anywhere near the power you think it does. By the way I am not a member of the NRA, neither is anyone I know that own guns and i know a lot of people that own guns. The NRA couldn't stop the assault weapons ban, they couldn't stop States limiting magazine limits for guns or the States that only allow you to purchase 25% of guns currently on market. So the notion that the NRA limits what our government does in regards to gun control is comical. "Try not to shoot your eye out" Wow that's a great thing to say to someone, guess it's a good thing you don't own guns. |
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Guns...
Apr 6, 2016 16:59:20 GMT -5
Post by costpet on Apr 6, 2016 16:59:20 GMT -5
I played with enough in the Army. They make you do that.
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