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Sox targeting Swisher if they don't get Hamilton
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 11, 2012 15:46:15 GMT -5
The Boston Red Sox are one of four teams interested in signing free-agent outfielder/first baseman Nick Swisher, according to a baseball source. The Red Sox look at Swisher as a fallback plan if they are unable to lure Josh Hamilton.
Along with the Red Sox, the San Francisco Giants, New York Yankees and the Cleveland Indians have all reportedly expressed interested in the 32-year-old.
Privately, the Red Sox have said they won’t go beyond a three-year deal for Hamilton, and Monday a baseball source it was “doubtful” that Hamilton will get fewer than four years in a new deal. The Texas Rangers are still considered the favorites to re-sign Hamilton, the 2010 American League MVP.
The switch-hitting Swisher would appear to be a more plausible alternative for the Sox, although to date he reportedly is seeking a five- or six-year deal. ESPN Insider's Jim Bowden reported that the Indians hope they can sign him for four years and $48-50 million, though it appears the market could reach $60 million or more.
The Red Sox, of course, would only sign him for a shorter term, as is the case with their interest in Hamilton.
Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said at the conclusion of the winter meetings last week that the Red Sox were looking for a lefthanded bat, one that either could play the outfield or first base. Swisher, of course, plays both. espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/24080/source-red-sox-have-interest-in-swisherThis HAS to mean that Jacoby is gone.... Right?
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Post by bluechip on Dec 11, 2012 16:07:43 GMT -5
This HAS to mean that Jacoby is gone.... Right? If this is indeed true (that the Red Sox are going to sign either Hamilton or Swisher) then they must have a pretty good idea about a Jacoby Ellsbury trade, and have been working on such a trade quietly.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 11, 2012 16:11:02 GMT -5
The Boston Red Sox are one of four teams interested in signing free-agent outfielder/first baseman Nick Swisher, according to a baseball source. The Red Sox look at Swisher as a fallback plan if they are unable to lure Josh Hamilton. Along with the Red Sox, the San Francisco Giants, New York Yankees and the Cleveland Indians have all reportedly expressed interested in the 32-year-old. Privately, the Red Sox have said they won’t go beyond a three-year deal for Hamilton, and Monday a baseball source it was “doubtful” that Hamilton will get fewer than four years in a new deal. The Texas Rangers are still considered the favorites to re-sign Hamilton, the 2010 American League MVP. The switch-hitting Swisher would appear to be a more plausible alternative for the Sox, although to date he reportedly is seeking a five- or six-year deal. ESPN Insider's Jim Bowden reported that the Indians hope they can sign him for four years and $48-50 million, though it appears the market could reach $60 million or more. The Red Sox, of course, would only sign him for a shorter term, as is the case with their interest in Hamilton. Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said at the conclusion of the winter meetings last week that the Red Sox were looking for a lefthanded bat, one that either could play the outfield or first base. Swisher, of course, plays both. He hit .272 with 24 homers, 93 RBIs and an .837 OPS for the Yankees last season. The consistent and durable Swisher has had eight straight seasons with 20 or more homers and 131 or more games played. In 50 career games at Fenway Park, Swisher has batted .286 with 8 homers and 32 RBIs. espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/24080/source-red-sox-have-interest-in-swisherThis HAS to mean that Jacoby is gone.... Right? Question: Is this the reproduction of a sourced story (and if so can you provide a link) or are you just connecting the dots that have appeared in the media so far?
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 11, 2012 16:12:42 GMT -5
The Boston Red Sox are one of four teams interested in signing free-agent outfielder/first baseman Nick Swisher, according to a baseball source. The Red Sox look at Swisher as a fallback plan if they are unable to lure Josh Hamilton. Along with the Red Sox, the San Francisco Giants, New York Yankees and the Cleveland Indians have all reportedly expressed interested in the 32-year-old. Privately, the Red Sox have said they won’t go beyond a three-year deal for Hamilton, and Monday a baseball source it was “doubtful” that Hamilton will get fewer than four years in a new deal. The Texas Rangers are still considered the favorites to re-sign Hamilton, the 2010 American League MVP. The switch-hitting Swisher would appear to be a more plausible alternative for the Sox, although to date he reportedly is seeking a five- or six-year deal. ESPN Insider's Jim Bowden reported that the Indians hope they can sign him for four years and $48-50 million, though it appears the market could reach $60 million or more. The Red Sox, of course, would only sign him for a shorter term, as is the case with their interest in Hamilton. Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said at the conclusion of the winter meetings last week that the Red Sox were looking for a lefthanded bat, one that either could play the outfield or first base. Swisher, of course, plays both. He hit .272 with 24 homers, 93 RBIs and an .837 OPS for the Yankees last season. The consistent and durable Swisher has had eight straight seasons with 20 or more homers and 131 or more games played. In 50 career games at Fenway Park, Swisher has batted .286 with 8 homers and 32 RBIs. espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/24080/source-red-sox-have-interest-in-swisherThis HAS to mean that Jacoby is gone.... Right? Question: Is this the reproduction of a sourced story (and if so can you provide a link) or are you just connecting the dots that have appeared in the media so far? The link is in his post...look down
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Post by jmei on Dec 11, 2012 16:16:17 GMT -5
One of the following two things is going on:
(a) Cherington wants Hamilton but doesn't want things to drag on any further, so he's leaking interest in Swisher to force Hamilton into making up his damn mind.
(b) Ellsbury is gone by the end of the month. Most likely destinations are Cincinnati, Texas, or Atlanta.
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 11, 2012 16:19:10 GMT -5
One of the following two things is going on: (a) Cherington wants Hamilton but doesn't want things to drag on any further, so he's leaking interest in Swisher to force Hamilton into making up his damn mind. (b) Ellsbury is gone by the end of the month. Most likely destinations are Cincinnati, Texas, or Atlanta. Personally I think Seattle is a fit too. They have the prospects to pull it off. I'm thinking of a player like Paxton.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 11, 2012 16:19:14 GMT -5
One of the following two things is going on: (a) Cherington wants Hamilton but doesn't want things to drag on any further, so he's leaking interest in Swisher to force Hamilton into making up his damn mind. (b) Ellsbury is gone by the end of the month. Most likely destinations are Cincinnati, Texas, or Atlanta. Cincy looks like they are trying to get Choo to play center.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 11, 2012 16:38:16 GMT -5
One of the following two things is going on: (a) Cherington wants Hamilton but doesn't want things to drag on any further, so he's leaking interest in Swisher to force Hamilton into making up his damn mind. (b) Ellsbury is gone by the end of the month. Most likely destinations are Cincinnati, Texas, or Atlanta. or
(c) Ben realized he needed to do something to gain the trust of Guidas
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Post by mantush on Dec 11, 2012 16:40:55 GMT -5
What is Ellsbury's trade value? He's a year removed from an MVP caliber season, but he's coming off of pretty poor year in which he was injured. In addition, he's a free agent after this year. Can we really expect a prospect like Paxton in return? What about a starting pitcher? Are we looking at a number two or three type, or will we have to settle for somebody that will settle into the bottom of a rotation? Is Denard Span trade a good starting point? There's a lot of things to consider when an Ellsbury trade is discussed; establishing what his value is first is paramount, else we may find ourselves disappointed with whatever the actual return is.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 11, 2012 17:22:15 GMT -5
What is Ellsbury's trade value? He's a year removed from an MVP caliber season, but he's coming off of pretty poor year in which he was injured. In addition, he's a free agent after this year. Can we really expect a prospect like Paxton in return? What about a starting pitcher? Are we looking at a number two or three type, or will we have to settle for somebody that will settle into the bottom of a rotation? Is Denard Span trade a good starting point? There's a lot of things to consider when an Ellsbury trade is discussed; establishing what his value is first is paramount, else we may find ourselves disappointed with whatever the actual return is. The Choo deal may inform Ellsbury's value to some extent.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 11, 2012 17:24:07 GMT -5
Assuming the cost is right, I'd sign Swisher regardless of what happens to Ellsbury.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 11, 2012 17:40:51 GMT -5
I love what the Sox are doing and it will work less years but more money. Overpay a little more for a year less makes a big difference.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 11, 2012 17:48:05 GMT -5
Assuming the cost is right, I'd sign Swisher regardless of what happens to Ellsbury. This. In fact, I thought Swisher was the optimum sign over Napoli but I can't believe they want to give away that draft pick for him. Hamilton may be another story if they can get him on a 3-4 yr deal. And all Ben has to do to gain my trust is go get an elite starter who is under 30 years old.
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Post by mainesox on Dec 11, 2012 18:45:27 GMT -5
Assuming the cost is right, I'd sign Swisher regardless of what happens to Ellsbury. This. In fact, I thought Swisher was the optimum sign over Napoli but I can't believe they want to give away that draft pick for him. Hamilton may be another story if they can get him on a 3-4 yr deal. And all Ben has to do to gain my trust is go get an elite starter who is under 30 years old. I actually think/thought signing both of them (Napoli and Swisher) would be the best way to go. I'm also not sure that signing Swisher makes trading Ellsbury necessary like signing Hamilton would; Swisher you could swap between LF and 1B, with Napoli swapping between 1B and C, and you would essentially end up with a platoon (offensively) of David Ross and Johnny Gomes. Add: That along with adding Sanchez, and I would personally call this a pretty successful off season.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 11, 2012 18:52:48 GMT -5
nvm
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 11, 2012 19:07:30 GMT -5
Swisher is the ideal guy IMO to play left against RH pitching (or in case Gomes faulters, full-time), sub at 1B or occasionally play RF. I want to accumulate not lose draft picks, especially to the Yankees, so, with this' prospect', I have upped my meds.
What are ya gonna do? Swish will cost 1/2 of Hamilton in dollars/yr, for fewer years and is a durable what you see is what you get kind of player. He is a high on-base guy too. I don't see him hammering 30 homers in Fenway as he might in Yankee Stadium, but he would be a useful cog. What he is not is the superstar game-changer that Hamilton, if healthy, would be.
I don't see the Yankees signing Hamilton unless they abandon their hitherto publicly avowed fiscal conservatism. But they may be lurking under the radar for either Swish or Hamilton. I shudder at Hamilton in the Bronx....and honestly, if I were the Yankees, I would blow that wad. Next year they can say goodbye to Granderson to help meet the financial CBA crunch for 2014. It appears that they now have Youk too.....1 year!!! ugh!
Perhaps the new CBA luxury tax provisions are not sufficiently penile given the obviously enormous available dollars (see LA)to promote the desired even field of play.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 11, 2012 19:11:24 GMT -5
I think the CBA provisions have actually done their job. The Dodgers just have so much money, and so little regard for how they spend it, that its irrelevant. Their TV deal alone can support a $250-$300M expenditure on player salaries.
Does anyone know what the NESN deal pays the Sox, or what the YES deal gets for the Yankees? I want to say one of the writers tweeted a list of all pro teams tv deals, but I can't find it
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 11, 2012 19:13:43 GMT -5
If the Red Sox don't deal Ellsbury in the offseason, I'm afraid they'll be hesitant to pull the trigger at the deadline if they have any chance at contending for a playoff spot (which I think they will). Are they really going to deal Ellsbury at the deadline and roll with two of Gomes/Nava/Kalish/JBJ playing everyday for the remainder? I have my doubts, and if any of the outfielders get hurt or disappoint (which will happen), the depth gets even further effected.
More importantly, Swisher would be a significant upgrade for this team and would give the Red Sox the deepest lineup in the division. Gomes will still get his at bats, putting him in a more traditional bench role would theoretically allow him to be used better (almost exclusively against lefties or at Fenway). If they receive perfect health he might have a shortage of playing time, but I expect another year of injuries since it's baseball, and without adding one more plus bat I worry that he'll get overexposed. I recognize the Red Sox probably signed Gomes for a bigger role, but that's my wishlist. And Stephen Drew. And Anibal Sanchez or better.
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Post by mainesox on Dec 11, 2012 19:33:57 GMT -5
I want to accumulate not lose draft picks, especially to the Yankees, so, with this' prospect', I have upped my meds. The Sox wouldn't actually be giving their pick to the Yankees; the Yankees get a supplemental 1st round pick regardless of who signs Swisher (unless they re-sign him of course), the Red Sox simply lose a pick (which would still suck, but they wouldn't actually be giving it to the Yankees).
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 11, 2012 19:37:08 GMT -5
Beasley, the Sox will not deal Ells if they have a shot at the playoffs as you know. We have no idea what the final 2013 roster will be as there are many pages to turn until April (and beyond). But.....
I am with you on Stephen Drew (a poor man's Marco Scuturo?) because we have a relative vacuum at SS excepting Ciriaco who does not fit the Sox prototype. Iglesias is a HUGE question.
I "say no" to Sanchez at the big dollars he will get. Ordinarily it seems that NL pitchers have roughly a 1/2 run increase in ERA in transferring to the AL. If that held with Sanchez, he would be in the 4.25 range. Hey, I am not going to pay 15-20M/yr. for that. Save the powder.
Mainesox, you are correct and thanks for distinguishing that point.. The Sox, if they signed Swisher, would lose their second round pick and the Yankees would get a supplemental pick. The Sox poor standing could thus help them with most competitors who would forfeit a first round pick if they had not finished in the bottom 10 teams record wise. Indirectly signing Swisher would have us helping the Yankees by gaining a pick for them...still something I would be loathe to do.
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Post by marrcus on Dec 12, 2012 2:46:31 GMT -5
i think the FO has worked out trade models for off-season and July/deadline and have concluded that while neither is the optimum time their best course is now --not surprisingly-- and they have worked at putting something together either for Texas or some other Org.
I'm not overly optimistic about the return. I thought Choo might get Clev more than the journeymen types they picked up.
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Post by justen on Dec 12, 2012 7:40:10 GMT -5
i think the FO has worked out trade models for off-season and July/deadline and have concluded that while neither is the optimum time their best course is now --not surprisingly-- and they have worked at putting something together either for Texas or some other Org. I'm not overly optimistic about the return. I thought Choo might get Clev more than the journeymen types they picked up. They got the #3 overall pick in the 2011 draft...... they're happy.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 12, 2012 7:42:41 GMT -5
i think the FO has worked out trade models for off-season and July/deadline and have concluded that while neither is the optimum time their best course is now --not surprisingly-- and they have worked at putting something together either for Texas or some other Org. I'm not overly optimistic about the return. I thought Choo might get Clev more than the journeymen types they picked up. Cleveland did get Bauer. In fact, I would have been very happy if the Red Sox and not the Indians was the team involved in the three team trade.
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Post by benfromma on Dec 12, 2012 7:46:33 GMT -5
Swisher would make our club better no doubt about it he would play LF, RF, and some first base and with another starter we would move up in the Al East. We could then trade Ellsbury for another starter or for prospects (make up for lost draft pick). But Swisher still does not move us up to probably even wild card status without other moves definitely not championship status. I didn't think signing Hamilton was a good move but if our goal is championship driven he is a difference maker. He would be a tremendous risk going 4 or 5 years but the upside we would go from cellar dwellers to compete for championship. The Ellsbury trade could still happen we could probably play Inglesias and not worry about his bat. But I still think the best route is to sign bargain free agents this year and make trades that will help us build for the future.
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Post by justen on Dec 12, 2012 8:10:47 GMT -5
I am certainly all for signing Hamilton to a short term deal, no longer than 4 years. Flipping Ellsbury for a top prospect or two off-sets any lost picks, and with a draft system that limits spending, it really doesn't hurt because that means you can just spend big on one or two better prospects in the draft. And if Ellsbury can net us a #2 starter, I say do it. Pitching is what this team needs most, and Ellsbury is a good chip for that.
The signing of a Hamilton or Swisher doesn't block Bradley either with no long term commitment in left. I'd actually prefer to stay away from Swisher unless he'd be willing to take a 3-year deal.
Hamilton is going to be streaky, strike out a ton, and a huge risk, but he instantly improves this lineup by a whole lot and provides the Red Sox flexibility to acquire the pitching they need.
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