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2016 Red Sox Spring Training News/Discussion
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Post by humanbeingbean on Feb 20, 2016 11:30:32 GMT -5
Interesting. Let's watch Bannister turn Marmol into another bullpen threat of ours in front of our very eyes.
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Post by thursty on Feb 20, 2016 11:36:48 GMT -5
I get that Mookie and Xander are the same age, but in what other way are they similar players? Why does the disastrous moving Xander to 3B decision have anything to do whatsoever with moving Mookie to RF? Maybe Mookie is more like Machado, who became one of the best 3B in the league when he was moved off SS? Why can't Mookie switch positions like Brock Holt? When has Mookie ever lost any confidence or looked shaky in any way? The result was disastrous - the decision was correct. It's process not results that you can control
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Post by mattpicard on Feb 20, 2016 11:37:28 GMT -5
I realize that. I'm just arguing it's kind of short sighted to do that to a rising superstar in Mookie. I mean for crying out loud, they're asking him to lead off, play 145+ games, and play two different positions. A lot to ask for from even a young talented guy like Mookie. Can he handle it? I think so but we will have to see. It's not like Young is playing CF on JBJ days off against LHP, it will be Mookie. Where is there any evidence that they'll be flip-flopping him? When JBJ is out, why would they put Mookie in CF and Young in RF, when they could play Young in LF and Castillo in CF? Young these days is something like a -16 in CF, -4 in RF, and +3 in LF. And although we don't have enough data to know for certain, it looks like Castillo is better in CF than Mookie. Hmm. No real evidence of anything yet beyond that vs. RHP we'll likely be looking at a Castillo/Bradley/Betts alignment. But what you bring up is interesting -- I doubt that Castillo is superior to Betts in center right now, but what I do know for certain is that Chris Young should be kept strictly to left as much as possible. His range has declined, and his arm is truly awful. Mookie's arm is several magnitudes more useful. Young in center should be out of the question, and if he's in right, you can hope for average-ish range while knowing he has an arm that can't do more than toss the ball to the cutoff man. ADD -- some evidence of CY's cannon: m.mlb.com/video/v320753383/nyycws-saladino-singles-past-teixeira-to-pad-lead/m.mlb.com/video/v500960183/cwsnyy-yankees-tag-out-garcia-in-a-rundown/
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 20, 2016 11:38:19 GMT -5
Probably 13 or 14 years ago when the Angels lost Troy Percival, I read a scout in one of those pre-season annuals asking whether Francisco Rodriguez had the necessary mentality to handle to closer role. Mind you, this was two or three years AFTER Rodriguez had totally dominated the 2002 postseason as a rookie (save for that Barry Bonds homer in the Series that should land any year now). It was the sort of thing so dumb that it was hard to believe someone paid to look at baseball would say it.
Where am I going with this? The idea that Francisco Rodriguez couldn't handle the ninth inning was as toothless as the one that Mookie Betts wouldn't be able to handle a position change. He's already not just done it, but dominated it in a way that I wouldn't have thought possible. Now, maybe Betts doesn't end up the best right fielder in baseball (though he seriously might). But throwing out the idea that the position change is going to screw up his bat is just trying to take every argument you can think of to bolster a preconceived notion that Bradley's arm makes him the best right fielder.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2016 11:45:01 GMT -5
I get that Mookie and Xander are the same age, but in what other way are they similar players? Why does the disastrous moving Xander to 3B decision have anything to do whatsoever with moving Mookie to RF? Maybe Mookie is more like Machado, who became one of the best 3B in the league when he was moved off SS? Why can't Mookie switch positions like Brock Holt? When has Mookie ever lost any confidence or looked shaky in any way? The result was disastrous - the decision was correct. It's process not results that you can control I really don't agree and said so at the time. I didn't think his hitting would be greatly affected, but I knew he was going to have a very difficult time on defense and the goal was to develop him into a decent SS. I still don't think his hitting had much to do with his confidence or defensive struggles. It was more that he just wasn't ready for the majors. That decision should not be decided because only Stephen Drew was available midseason to replace the disaster that WMB was. Regardless, that's not the point I was making. How Mookie can handle a position change has nothing at all to do with how Xander did it.
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Post by thursty on Feb 20, 2016 11:47:43 GMT -5
OK, for the sake of argument, let's presume that Betts doesn't want to move to RF, i.e. he prefers to stay in CF (and just because he hasn't whinged to the media like Xander did, is no evidence that it isn't so)
Does/should that matter?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2016 11:55:38 GMT -5
OK, for the sake of argument, let's presume that Betts doesn't want to move to RF, i.e. he prefers to stay in CF (and just because he hasn't whinged to the media like Xander did, is no evidence that it isn't so) Does/should that matter? One has nothing to do with the other. First of all, Mookie would never whine about it. Second of all, Xander would have never "whined" about it if he were at all ready to play defense at the major league level at any position. He was embarrassed and the media drug the "whining" out of him with loaded questions. To answer the question, yes you'd take that into consideration.
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Post by jmei on Feb 20, 2016 11:55:48 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 20, 2016 12:41:47 GMT -5
Interesting. Let's watch Bannister turn Marmol into another bullpen threat of ours in front of our very eyes. This is fascinating. If it works, and Rich Hill has a good year, every broken-down pitcher is going to want to sign a minor league deal with the Red Sox.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 20, 2016 13:00:43 GMT -5
That sounds interesting. Definitely something to watch.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2016 14:40:31 GMT -5
BSHOL commentary combined with a BSOHL comment.
Rob Bradford @bradfo 56m56 minutes ago Henry Owens: "Everyone says when they come in, 'I'm in the best shape of my life.' But I actually am"
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 20, 2016 16:01:06 GMT -5
The result was disastrous - the decision was correct. It's process not results that you can control If your talking about the X decision, it wasn't correct in my opinion. It was done to accomodate Stephen Drew...who was going to have no position on the team after the season. I view this move as an indictment to the Cherington regimes, at times, reactionary decisions. It served no purpose and the process and end result was definitely incorrect.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 20, 2016 16:26:18 GMT -5
BSHOL commentary combined with a BSOHL comment. Rob Bradford @bradfo 56m56 minutes ago Henry Owens: "Everyone says when they come in, 'I'm in the best shape of my life.' But I actually am" Not sure HO can get any more awesome
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Post by thursty on Feb 20, 2016 17:42:27 GMT -5
BSHOL commentary combined with a BSOHL comment. Rob Bradford @bradfo 56m56 minutes ago Henry Owens: "Everyone says when they come in, 'I'm in the best shape of my life.' But I actually am" Not sure HO can get any more awesome shrinking his walk rate?
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 20, 2016 22:57:25 GMT -5
Sometimes I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke, or just can't recognize trolling. We now have multiple posters (of course several are the usual suspects) positing the following: You do not move a player whose defense is "unplayable" at a position (I'll use August Fagerstrom's description of Xander Bogaerts at SS in 2014 - for some reason that seems to carry weight) to another position (citing some completely speculative "psychological impact" which has the merit of being 100% unverifiable), but you *do* move a player from his position, where he is *above average* (again citing completely speculative and unverifiable psychological traits (in contradistinction to above player's) of said player). By that ironclad "logic", teams should keep players with < 700 OPS in the lineup so as to not endanger their fragile and sensitive psyches. How deep does the rabbit hole go? I don't know, dw's concerrns might be justified. They started jerking Mookie around last 9/18 -- moved him to RF, back to CF, and then RF and CF the last two games -- and he only hit .314 / .385 / .543. Of course, you have to take that with a grain of salt, because the whole lineup scored 4.2 runs per game in that stretch versus the season average of 4.6, so the quality of the opposing pitching may have been a factor. Alright I'll pretty much drop the Mookie issue. Not much does phase this guy and he could probably do everything the Sox tell him to. His age does work in his favor of the Sox trying to get everything possible out of him. Let's hope he's up to the task. I haven't seen the Sox ask this much out of a player since really Nomar Garciaparra was playing short stop everyday and hitting in the top half of the lineup while being clearly the best player on the team. I would of included Xander in this conversation last year but the Sox didn't EXPECT a whole lot to start last year and he rose to a level that forced the Sox to put him at the top of the lineup. Whether anyone wants to agree with me or not, the Sox are expecting a lot out of Mookie this year more than any other player on this team, outside of MAYBE Xander. I'm not going to doubt him. He's clearly the best position player they have, and is by far my favorite player in the Sox organization outside of Ortiz right now. Clearly he has done it all up to this point.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 21, 2016 0:04:54 GMT -5
These things can be hard to tell, but that new Marmol delivery looks like it would be extremely easy for the batter to pick up the ball at that hitch point in the back. He's bringing it low and way behind his body where the batter can pick it up. And he's holding it there long enough where the batter can likely tell the grip as well.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,017
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 21, 2016 11:27:56 GMT -5
Nuggets from the Sunday Globule:
1) Price is mentoring E-Rod. E-Rod says "he's helping me with my curveball."
WTF, Peter Abraham, you lazy hack? You're not aware that E-Rod has never thrown a curveball in the majors? How long has he had one? How close is it to being game-ready?
I've been saying that E-Rod needs a pitch that breaks gloveside (his slider goes straight down) to be an ace, and apparently the Sox know that, too. But if E-Rod's been trying to master one since he was 12, versus he started messing around with at the end of last year -- that's a huge difference.
While we're at it, why not ask E-Rod about his developing a sinker and a cutter last year?
(This is like a Hollywood reporter doing an article on how Julianne Moore is mentoring Scarlett Johansson, and Scarlett says "she's helping me with my sex and drug addictions," and there's no followup question.)
2) An opposing scout thinks that the Sox could move Craig if he has a great spring and eats most of his salary.
WTF, Nick Cafardo, you unthinking hack? If Craig comes back, why wouldn't we keep him in AAA as insurance against an OF injury rather than unloading him to save a small amount of cash which doesn't even count against the salary limit, and which would leave Brentz as our next option? This may be the stupidest thing you've ever written, which is no mean feat.
3) Vazquez looks like he really wants to start the season as the catcher.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 21, 2016 11:56:15 GMT -5
“@jmastrodonato: Farrell said Chris Young will start against every LHP. Would prefer Mookie doesn’t bounce between RF-CF, so Young in CF if JBJ rests.”
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Post by mattpicard on Feb 21, 2016 12:14:50 GMT -5
“@jmastrodonato: Farrell said Chris Young will start against every LHP. Would prefer Mookie doesn’t bounce between RF-CF, so Young in CF if JBJ rests.” Well that's incredibly stupid. Young is by far the worst CF of the four. -- Brian MacPherson @brianmacp Farrell: Fourth outfielder Chris Young "is going to get every lefthanded starter we see." Young would play center field when JBJ sits. @matt_Picard @brianmacp That's pretty disappointing -- Young is by far the worst defender in CF of the four at this point of his career. Fits best in LF. Brian MacPherson @brianmacp Farrell making his priority not bouncing the starting outfielders around. Imagine Young will play all three spots. Matt Picard @matt_Picard @brianmacp RC and especially Mookie won't sit vs many LHP. So CY is being allotted ~40-50 games in CF if starting vs every LHP. Not good. Brian MacPherson @brianmacp @matt_Picard I'll take the under on that. They'll sit against some lefties. Bradley is going to play more than 110 games. -- So Rusney, JBJ, and Mookie are going to be locked into LF, CF, and RF, respectively. Young will play vs. every LHP, and we know JBJ will be the biggest casualty of that, guaranteeing Young a substantial amount of time in CF.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 21, 2016 12:49:06 GMT -5
“@jmastrodonato: Farrell said Chris Young will start against every LHP. Would prefer Mookie doesn’t bounce between RF-CF, so Young in CF if JBJ rests.” Well that's incredibly stupid. Young is by far the worst CF of the four. -- Brian MacPherson @brianmacp Farrell: Fourth outfielder Chris Young "is going to get every lefthanded starter we see." Young would play center field when JBJ sits. @matt_Picard @brianmacp That's pretty disappointing -- Young is by far the worst defender in CF of the four at this point of his career. Fits best in LF. Brian MacPherson @brianmacp Farrell making his priority not bouncing the starting outfielders around. Imagine Young will play all three spots. Matt Picard @matt_Picard @brianmacp RC and especially Mookie won't sit vs many LHP. So CY is being allotted ~40-50 games in CF if starting vs every LHP. Not good. Brian MacPherson @brianmacp @matt_Picard I'll take the under on that. They'll sit against some lefties. Bradley is going to play more than 110 games. -- So Rusney, JBJ, and Mookie are going to be locked into LF, CF, and RF, respectively. Young will play vs. every LHP, and we know JBJ will be the biggest casualty of that, guaranteeing Young a substantial amount of time in CF. I'd expect nothing less from John Farrell. That dude is clueless. I hate to say it, but if he didn't get cancer (which I am very glad he is healthy again from), he would have been fired and this team would have been much better off.
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Post by thursty on Feb 21, 2016 12:55:57 GMT -5
See, this is what exactly I feared. Young can't play CF, so any marginal benefit you might get from moving JBJ to center is more than offset by playing Young so as to "not bounce Mookie around" - Farrell is simply not competent to be a modern manager, and Dombrowski is to be blamed for foisting this move in the first place. Remember when it took like 3* weeks of playing Sizemore in CF over JBJ in RF at start of 2014? Unbelievable; they should have just left well enough alone
*Actually it was only a week, seemed like an eternity
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 21, 2016 13:07:00 GMT -5
...once again, it won't help Bradley or the team. If this really is the case, it could very well lead to Young negating whatever value he brings you with the bat.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2016 13:39:48 GMT -5
This is where the analytics department should be given authority over Farrell. Playing the 4th best CF in center isn't smart, duh. The main thing I want to see Young doing is pinch hitting for Pablo against LHP.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 21, 2016 14:20:52 GMT -5
You know, I usually hate media pile-ons and I defended him a fair amount last season, but my god I am sick to death of Pablo Sandoval and it is February 21 of the second year of his five-year deal. He stinks and I don't want to have him on the team I root for anymore.
EDIT: You guys realize that Chris Young isn't like Danny Tartabull or Jeremy Giambi or something, right? He's capable in center and rotating the outfielders every time there is a sub is generally not a great move. If there were a long term injury to Bradley (or he repeats his 2014 disaster) I'd be all for moving Betts back to center. But after pinch hitting or on an off day? Yeah he's cool there.
Player psychology is important here. I remember a pretty frank interview with Kevin Youkilis around 2008 or 2009 where he was asked about playing third base and batting leadoff. And he said he liked doing both things, but in general he wanted a days notice if his was going to play somewhere other than first or hit higher than third in the order, because his mental preparation was different. That's something Farrell has to weigh by talking to Betts, Castillo, and Bradley (and Young I guess) while also weighing the positional loss. And you know me, I'm not one of those "throw the stats out" guys. It's a balance and a hard one.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2016 14:46:53 GMT -5
You know, I usually hate media pile-ons and I defended him a fair amount last season, but my god I am sick to death of Pablo Sandoval and it is February 21 of the second year of his five-year deal. He stinks and I don't want to have him on the team I root for anymore. EDIT: You guys realize that Chris Young isn't like Danny Tartabull or Jeremy Giambi or something, right? He's capable in center and rotating the outfielders every time there is a sub is generally not a great move. If there were a long term injury to Bradley (or he repeats his 2014 disaster) I'd be all for moving Betts back to center. But after pinch hitting or on an off day? Yeah he's cool there. Player psychology is important here. I remember a pretty frank interview with Kevin Youkilis around 2008 or 2009 where he was asked about playing third base and batting leadoff. And he said he liked doing both things, but in general he wanted a days notice if his was going to play somewhere other than first or hit higher than third in the order, because his mental preparation was different. That's something Farrell has to weigh by talking to Betts, Castillo, and Bradley (and Young I guess) while also weighing the positional loss. And you know me, I'm not one of those "throw the stats out" guys. It's a balance and a hard one. If that's the case, they should leave Mookie in CF and they can rotate Young in LF and RF. The difference between JBJ in CF and Mookie in RF is more than offset by Young in CF for 30% of the games. This kind of is the reason why I didn't understand the great need for a 4th RHH OF. We already kind of have that in Castillo. They could have gotten a LHH OF to rotate with him. There is zero need to platoon JBJ.
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