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2016 Red Sox Spring Training News/Discussion
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 21, 2016 15:03:05 GMT -5
I mean, there's at least some chance that Young is a better baseball player than Castillo outright. So I'm not sure that Castillo's presence is an argument against signing Young.
I agree that there's no real need for a strict platoon, though.
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Post by jmei on Feb 21, 2016 15:13:05 GMT -5
“@jmastrodonato: Farrell said Chris Young will start against every LHP. Would prefer Mookie doesn’t bounce between RF-CF, so Young in CF if JBJ rests.” Well that's incredibly stupid. Young is by far the worst CF of the four. -- Brian MacPherson @brianmacp Farrell: Fourth outfielder Chris Young "is going to get every lefthanded starter we see." Young would play center field when JBJ sits. @matt_Picard @brianmacp That's pretty disappointing -- Young is by far the worst defender in CF of the four at this point of his career. Fits best in LF. Brian MacPherson @brianmacp Farrell making his priority not bouncing the starting outfielders around. Imagine Young will play all three spots. Matt Picard @matt_Picard @brianmacp RC and especially Mookie won't sit vs many LHP. So CY is being allotted ~40-50 games in CF if starting vs every LHP. Not good. Brian MacPherson @brianmacp @matt_Picard I'll take the under on that. They'll sit against some lefties. Bradley is going to play more than 110 games. -- So Rusney, JBJ, and Mookie are going to be locked into LF, CF, and RF, respectively. Young will play vs. every LHP, and we know JBJ will be the biggest casualty of that, guaranteeing Young a substantial amount of time in CF. I don't know that it's a fair assumption that Young will only get playing time at the expense of Bradley. I'm increasingly starting to think that Young will instead displace Castillo a fair amount in LF. That said, if it is the case that Young starts more than, say, 20 times in CF (while Castillo and Betts are in LF/RF), yeah, that's dumb.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 21, 2016 15:40:52 GMT -5
I think you're probably on to it, jmei. Young is a good player for them to hedge their bets with, both for Castillo and Bradley. That makes the most sense since the usable ML sample sized for both isn't very big. He's a good option to have if Castillo doesn't pan out, certainly. And if Bradley can't find that bat he was using in early September of last season, it would seem easy enough to start a serious rotation plan. Just me, but it would be nice to see a little more circumspection about who's playing where, and not just in the outfield. I think it was Hazen who said there are other options if Sandoval and/or Ramirez don't pan out. He's not saying they won't be on the field, only that they will have to perform to keep their spots as regulars.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 21, 2016 16:01:19 GMT -5
This is where the analytics department should be given authority over Farrell. Playing the 4th best CF in center isn't smart, duh. The main thing I want to see Young doing is pinch hitting for Pablo against LHP. It's not just that he's the 4th best, it's that HE CAN'T PLAY CF any longer. Period. You guys realize that Chris Young isn't like Danny Tartabull or Jeremy Giambi or something, right? He's capable in center. Not close. Not even nearby to the neighborhood of next to close. He's been -22 per 150 in CF the last three years. Even if you assume that all of the variation between RF, LF, and CF is random as opposed to position-specific, he's -11 in a sample plenty big enough to determine how good an OF he is right now. The best case is that he's not quite good enough to ever get an inning there in other than an emergency. That's the best case. It's like playing Nava in CF between Castillo and Betts. Embarrassing. If he F.O. doesn't overrule him on this, it's going to be a long season.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 21, 2016 16:05:31 GMT -5
You know, I usually hate media pile-ons and I defended him a fair amount last season, but my god I am sick to death of Pablo Sandoval and it is February 21 of the second year of his five-year deal. He stinks and I don't want to have him on the team I root for anymore. EDIT: You guys realize that Chris Young isn't like Danny Tartabull or Jeremy Giambi or something, right? He's capable in center and rotating the outfielders every time there is a sub is generally not a great move. If there were a long term injury to Bradley (or he repeats his 2014 disaster) I'd be all for moving Betts back to center. But after pinch hitting or on an off day? Yeah he's cool there. Player psychology is important here. I remember a pretty frank interview with Kevin Youkilis around 2008 or 2009 where he was asked about playing third base and batting leadoff. And he said he liked doing both things, but in general he wanted a days notice if his was going to play somewhere other than first or hit higher than third in the order, because his mental preparation was different. That's something Farrell has to weigh by talking to Betts, Castillo, and Bradley (and Young I guess) while also weighing the positional loss. And you know me, I'm not one of those "throw the stats out" guys. It's a balance and a hard one. If that's the case, they should leave Mookie in CF and they can rotate Young in LF and RF. The difference between JBJ in CF and Mookie in RF is more than offset by Young in CF for 30% of the games. This kind of is the reason why I didn't understand the great need for a 4th RHH OF. We already kind of have that in Castillo. They could have gotten a LHH OF to rotate with him. There is zero need to platoon JBJ. And everyone was ripping on me for being concerned about flip flopping Mookie a day ago? I should of known this was going to happen. There's no way the Sox would of done that to Mookie. At least I was being realistic about it.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2016 16:20:37 GMT -5
If that's the case, they should leave Mookie in CF and they can rotate Young in LF and RF. The difference between JBJ in CF and Mookie in RF is more than offset by Young in CF for 30% of the games. This kind of is the reason why I didn't understand the great need for a 4th RHH OF. We already kind of have that in Castillo. They could have gotten a LHH OF to rotate with him. There is zero need to platoon JBJ. And everyone was ripping on me for being concerned about flip flopping Mookie a day ago? I should of known this was going to happen. There's no way the Sox would of done that to Mookie. At least I was being realistic about it. We're ripping both you and Farrell. JBJ should be playing every day in CF until he shows he can't.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 21, 2016 16:33:05 GMT -5
Farrell has a long history of favoring veterans with playing time and I don't expect that to change. If they miss the playoffs he probably gets canned or moved to another role.
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Post by larrycook on Feb 21, 2016 17:22:42 GMT -5
Good thing Shaw is around as he will likely get quite a bit of playing time between 1st and 3rd if Hanley and Pantload are still on the Red Sox. Those two guys are probably two of the worst signings in Red Sox history. I would like to see if shaw could be decent in left field as well.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 21, 2016 17:56:53 GMT -5
And everyone was ripping on me for being concerned about flip flopping Mookie a day ago? I should of known this was going to happen. There's no way the Sox would of done that to Mookie. At least I was being realistic about it. We're ripping both you and Farrell. JBJ should be playing every day in CF until he shows he can't. Players like to know their roles and don't like to switch positions every other day. That is a fact and I knew that going into the line of thinking everyone here had of moving Betts back and forth between cf and rf. If JBJ is a strict platoon player like Farrell is making him out to be then he should be the corner outfielder or you start running into problems like Chris Young in cf. I was on record of saying "keep Betts in cf." Now that would be the best case scenario out of this whole debacle.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 21, 2016 18:09:14 GMT -5
The debacle being... that Chris Young might play 15 games in center field againt left-handed pitching. Okay.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 21, 2016 18:34:57 GMT -5
Players like to know their roles and don't like to switch positions every other day. That is a fact and I knew that going into the line of thinking everyone here had of moving Betts back and forth between cf and rf.
If JBJ is a strict platoon player like Farrell is making him out to be then he should be the corner outfielder or you start running into problems like Chris Young in cf. I was on record of saying "keep Betts in cf." Now that would be the best case scenario out of this whole debacle. Just because you think it is a fact, doesn't in fact mean it is a fact.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 21, 2016 19:02:59 GMT -5
The debacle being... that Chris Young might play 15 games in center field againt left-handed pitching. Okay. If JBJ is a strict platoon at this point, I think he'll see at least 30 games in cf. I doubt he sees only 15 games in cf. Sure he might see a lot of time in other outfield positions but if he's spelling JBJ always against LHP, then yes it is a debacle. Mookie in cf was the best defensive alignment the Sox could go for. Now for every run JBJ saves, the Sox actually lose drs when you play Young in cf. Farrell is already screwing up and it's the 3rd day of spring training.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 21, 2016 19:04:50 GMT -5
Players like to know their roles and don't like to switch positions every other day. That is a fact and I knew that going into the line of thinking everyone here had of moving Betts back and forth between cf and rf.
If JBJ is a strict platoon player like Farrell is making him out to be then he should be the corner outfielder or you start running into problems like Chris Young in cf. I was on record of saying "keep Betts in cf." Now that would be the best case scenario out of this whole debacle. Just because you think it is a fact, doesn't in fact mean it is a fact. This is something Farrell has come out and said, right? He's not moving any of the starting outfielders around this season. It will be Young that moves around as the bench guy. He pretty much laid it out in black and white ink for everyone to see.
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Post by mandelbro on Feb 21, 2016 20:27:34 GMT -5
I'd be careful not to read so much into Farrell's comments. This time last year, Shane Victorino was our everyday center fielder.
When he's in front of a mic, Farrell's first concern is pumping the tires on his players and his second concern is what he tells us. Wake me up when we actually see Chris Young in CF.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 21, 2016 20:33:23 GMT -5
Good thing Shaw is around as he will likely get quite a bit of playing time between 1st and 3rd if Hanley and Pantload are still on the Red Sox. Those two guys are probably two of the worst signings in Red Sox history. I would like to see if shaw could be decent in left field as well. Gonna be tough for him to play left field as well when he takes over starting at both 1B and 3B. At the same time.
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danr
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Post by danr on Feb 21, 2016 20:53:08 GMT -5
I love this time of year. Everything is starting over, along with amusing panic over things the manager says that once play starts probably will be meaningless as well as various things that may or may not mean anything.
Can Young play CF? We'll know soon. Can Sandoval play with that pillow around his stomach? Ditto. Will Hanley find a 1b glove? Ditto.
I continue to believe that we are going to have a lot more fun this year than we did last year.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 21, 2016 21:29:25 GMT -5
I'd be careful not to read so much into Farrell's comments. This time last year, Shane Victorino was our everyday center fielder. When he's in front of a mic, Farrell's first concern is pumping the tires on his players and his second concern is what he tells us. Wake me up when we actually see Chris Young in CF. I hope you're not a heavy sleeper.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 22, 2016 7:58:26 GMT -5
The debacle being... that Chris Young might play 15 games in center field againt left-handed pitching. Okay. Once the front office realizes how much of a disaster it is and forces Farrell to stop it? Why do we accept really stupid decisions because they won't hurt that much before they realize how stupid they are?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 22, 2016 8:00:43 GMT -5
We're ripping both you and Farrell. JBJ should be playing every day in CF until he shows he can't. Players like to know their roles and don't like to switch positions every other day. That is a fact and I knew that going into the line of thinking everyone here had of moving Betts back and forth between cf and rf. If JBJ is a strict platoon player like Farrell is making him out to be then he should be the corner outfielder or you start running into problems like Chris Young in cf. I was on record of saying "keep Betts in cf." Now that would be the best case scenario out of this whole debacle. Only if we accept JBJ being a strict platoon player as an unchangeable fact of life.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 22, 2016 8:11:06 GMT -5
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 22, 2016 8:14:07 GMT -5
Betts can play CF some days still. It didn't kill Dyson or Cain.
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Post by thursty on Feb 22, 2016 9:33:03 GMT -5
Yes, it's essentially just a rehash of the same arguments I've presented (and therefore is well-reasoned and logically sound). With one important omission, viz. Assuming Castillo is playing well enough to remain in the OF "rotation", i.e. he hasn't played so poorly that he's essentially a non-factor, it's hard to imagine a situation where you wouldn't want to start him against LHP. To wit, in his (very brief ML career, 404 PAs), he looks a lot like, well, Chris Young: against LHP -> 119+ against RHP -> 49+ That sure looks like a profile of a platoon player, which means if you're going to play him at all, you're going to want him in there against lefthanders.
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Post by okin15 on Feb 22, 2016 11:27:38 GMT -5
Yes, it's essentially just a rehash of the same arguments I've presented (and therefore is well-reasoned and logically sound). With one important omission, viz. Assuming Castillo is playing well enough to remain in the OF "rotation", i.e. he hasn't played so poorly that he's essentially a non-factor, it's hard to imagine a situation where you wouldn't want to start him against LHP. To wit, in his (very brief ML career, 404 PAs), he looks a lot like, well, Chris Young: against LHP -> 119+ against RHP -> 49+ That sure looks like a profile of a platoon player, which means if you're going to play him at all, you're going to want him in there against lefthanders. You make some awfully good points that make Farrell look pretty silly. WTF is our skipper thinking?
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Post by humanbeingbean on Feb 22, 2016 11:36:42 GMT -5
To get away from all the Sandoval things for at least a little while, has anyone heard anything more on E-Rod's curveball? And for that matter, his cutter? You've gotta think that honing in those two pitches, on top of his fastball, plus changeup and slider, would make Price and him a two headed monster.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 22, 2016 11:42:13 GMT -5
Yes, it's essentially just a rehash of the same arguments I've presented (and therefore is well-reasoned and logically sound). With one important omission, viz. Assuming Castillo is playing well enough to remain in the OF "rotation", i.e. he hasn't played so poorly that he's essentially a non-factor, it's hard to imagine a situation where you wouldn't want to start him against LHP. To wit, in his (very brief ML career, 404 PAs), he looks a lot like, well, Chris Young: against LHP -> 119+ against RHP -> 49+ That sure looks like a profile of a platoon player, which means if you're going to play him at all, you're going to want him in there against lefthanders. You make some awfully good points that make Farrell look pretty silly. WTF is our skipper thinking? It makes me question the need for signing Young. I know he's great depth in case of injury to JBJ or Betts and he probably can easily match what we would like to see out of Castillo if he isn't cutting it, but how much value does he have without one of those things happening? You have to significantly downgrade the defense for him to play over JBJ, who doesn't have really any platoon split and the one guy who deserves to be platooned (Castillo) also bats RH. I guess we always need at least one thing to complain about, but this is probably likely to linger. Get ready for the endless whining when Young botches a ball in CF or when he's facing RHP, which is also going to happen too often.
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