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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 20, 2016 9:58:20 GMT -5
Not sure anyone here loves Griffin - we just don't have your irrational dislike of him as a player. I don't have an irrational dislike. You guys just seem to think that if someone doesn't like a players fit or thinks they are over rated for the cost then that person HATEs the player. Just because I think trading high level assets and using salary cap space on Griffin is a bad idea it does not mean I have an irrational dislike of the player. I've said time and time again he's very good. People just read what they want to read to be combative at times rather than take a post or posts for what they are. Concerns don't equal hate. This franchise is in great position to grow internally, thru the draft and free agency. Making a gutting trade for a guy who's going to eat your cap space too is a panic move and irrational and will NOT make you a championship contender and it certainly won't give you a good chance at long term sustained success. Thankfully, Danny seems to get this which is likely why he hasn't made a deal. For the record, I agree on Griffen. I don't dislike him, but I think his value is broadly perceived to be greater than it really is. The team would be better with him than without him, but I don't think that improvement is significant enough to justify a major outlay of players, picks, and dollars. |
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 20, 2016 10:54:10 GMT -5
I'd much rather have Blake than Horford, if that's the discussion -- but I'd much rather have Al for cap space, than Blake for several players/picks/cap space.
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 20, 2016 10:58:09 GMT -5
Speaking of internal growth. A guy we really haven't discussed at all is Marcus Smart and the new CARMELO projections have him being our second best player next year. Is he ready to take the leap? Have you all seen any signs of him breaking out? I don't know how I feel about him. There were certainly times especially towards the end of the year and in the playoffs where we saw a much more assertive player and when he did that on the offensive end he was exciting. His maturity worries me but those same signs of immaturity kind of make me happy bc they show a competitiveness. I've heard from several people in Boston that are into the club scene that Smart was out partying almost every night last season even the night before games and that kind of concerns me. I think this is a minor deal, unless an addiction is involved -- which I'm not suggesting it is at all. Pro athletes are genetic freaks of nature. I would rather him make 'smarter' choices (if this is true), but I'm not going to really criticize him for what this sounds like to me. Better players have done the same and performed incredibly well. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 20, 2016 14:41:32 GMT -5
Its a minor concern but still a concern. Hoping he grows out of it as a Celtic rather than with another team.
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Post by cto94 on Jul 21, 2016 11:06:55 GMT -5
Speaking of internal growth. A guy we really haven't discussed at all is Marcus Smart and the new CARMELO projections have him being our second best player next year. Is he ready to take the leap? Have you all seen any signs of him breaking out? I don't know how I feel about him. There were certainly times especially towards the end of the year and in the playoffs where we saw a much more assertive player and when he did that on the offensive end he was exciting. His maturity worries me but those same signs of immaturity kind of make me happy bc they show a competitiveness. I've heard from several people in Boston that are into the club scene that Smart was out partying almost every night last season even the night before games and that kind of concerns me. The guy plays his *** off every night and hasn't gotten into any kind of real trouble (unless you consider the fan confrontation at OK state real trouble). If he were like JR Smith and always acting like an idiot, that might worry me, but he's composed, plays harder than pretty much anyone else in the league, and clearly works hard. Until any of that changes, seems kinda pointless to worry about it |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 21, 2016 11:56:03 GMT -5
Yabusele agrees to a deal to play in China for next season. C's have $5.2 Mn in Cap Room including holds for RFA Zeller ($6.5 Mn) and UDP Brown ($3.95 Mn). Roster has 12 Guaranteed Contracts + Brown (UDP) and Holland (Non-Guaranteed until January)
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Post by jmei on Jul 21, 2016 12:01:54 GMT -5
Not thrilled about China as Yabusele's destination. That's a league that definitely emphasizes production over development (though most foreign leagues do so), the quality of competition is quite poor (especially in terms of big men), and the infrastructure (coaching, strength & conditioning, etc.) is not great.
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 21, 2016 12:23:54 GMT -5
I agree jmei.
Maybe they offered him the most money, pretty sure it's his choice where he plays IIRC. It is a bummer he's there.
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Post by jmei on Jul 21, 2016 12:32:06 GMT -5
Oh yeah, to be clear, he has no guarantee of NBA success, so he should absolutely just take the most money he's offered. But as a Celtics fan, not ideal.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 21, 2016 12:33:07 GMT -5
Maybe he can buddy up with the team owner to, at least, talk about what it takes to play in the NBA (but, yes, I agree that this isn't a desirable outcome).
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Post by texs31 on Jul 21, 2016 12:39:11 GMT -5
My roster count, by the way, does not include the very real possibility of Bentil/Jackson being signed and on the roster.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 21, 2016 13:52:06 GMT -5
As long as Yabusele works hard on his individual stuff I don't think it matters too much where he plays. All the international leagues have their pluses and minuses...
In any event, Nader should make the team over Bentil or Jackson.
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Post by jmei on Jul 21, 2016 14:01:40 GMT -5
Yeah, Yabusele should at least get plenty of minutes in China, which might not be true in some of the higher-end European leagues.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 21, 2016 14:20:33 GMT -5
All 3 are likely to play in the NBDL next year but, after initial reports were refuted, it does sound like Nader is committed to play in the NBDL. Could see Bentil and Jackson filling out the back end of the roster and getting contracts.
At that point in the roster, the resume they bring probably outweighs the Summer League performance (significantly better than the 2 more touted guys) of Nader.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 21, 2016 15:00:08 GMT -5
So a draft pick can play in D league and other teams can't sign them because Celtics hold rights? What if players like Jackson and Bentil refuse? I mean these are guys I feel 100 % certain could make some teams 15 man roster.
I've seen this with Iverson and Thornton, we basically forced them overseas. Just can't remember ever seeing this done with Players that could actually make another teams roster.
It just seems that drafting players and not signing them but having them play for your D league squad is a trick to get around the 15 man roster. Any other player they sign to D league team can be signed by any another team if added to 12 man active roster right?
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Post by texs31 on Jul 21, 2016 17:53:45 GMT -5
Yeah. Draft and Stashes don't have to be international. A couple of years ago, OKC drafted Josh Huestis (Stanford, maybe) in the first round. Not really on most draft boards in the 1st, he was taken there bc he had a previously agreed to play in the
NBDL (I think the international class was weak, iirc).
Not sure what happens if they don't agree but the fact that we haven't heard anything about them doing what Nader is, is why I think they are more likely to get a deal and be on the team.
I'd be interested to know if they can become free agents if they refuse.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 21, 2016 18:01:28 GMT -5
Based on a quick review of an answer on Real GM, it loOKs like Boston just has to offer a minimum QO every year to retain rights to a 2nd round player. The player can, of course, accept it and be on the roster (until they are cut and the team loses rights).
I would assume that players can get more lucrative contracts overseas so, that can often be an easy way to maintain rights without taking up roster or cap space. Not sure the NBDL is offering the same money so you either offer a deal and accept they will be on your cap space (and maybe roster) or you convince then to play in the D so you maintain their rights.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 21, 2016 21:59:06 GMT -5
OK that makes perfect sense. Only players like Nader who fear not being able to make a team would not accept QO. I assume both Bentil and Jackson would accept the offer. As min salary in NBA has to be a lot more than D league salary. If Celtics cut them they can simple sign with another team.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 22, 2016 6:30:59 GMT -5
So I was trying to find the reference to Nader agreeing to go to the D and realize I may have misinterpreted a report. The update indicated that he will play in the D this year but it was actually a fantasy report suggesting he won't get much run on the Cs.
The updated information doesn't seem to indicate that he's agreed to pass up his QO and be stashed (despite initial reports saying that he would).
Stay tuned.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 22, 2016 7:05:22 GMT -5
If you sign a guy to the 15 man roster you can assign them to play in the D league and no one else can touch them. If the Celtics retain Naders rights but don't sign him to the 15 man roster he can go play in the D league but would be open to be signed away by another Club. I don't know if there are any unwritten rules tho where teams won't poach players under certain circumstances. In those cases, it wouldn't surprise me to see a simple trade to compensate the team with a conditional future second or something.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 22, 2016 7:22:54 GMT -5
All 3 are likely to play in the NBDL next year but, after initial reports were refuted, it does sound like Nader is committed to play in the NBDL. Could see Bentil and Jackson filling out the back end of the roster and getting contracts. At that point in the roster, the resume they bring probably outweighs the Summer League performance (significantly better than the 2 more touted guys) of Nader. Abdel Nader really impressed me and has me very interested. Admittedly, I knew nothing of him before drafted and still know very little but in a league where wing defense and 3 point shooting is paramount, he interests me the most of the 3 second rounders. I'd list them in this order: Nader, Bentil, Jackson. However, neither of them are going to impact the team this year in all likelihood so the real key is trying to keep all their rights more than anything else. If Nader's rights can be kept, without even signing him thus delaying his free agent clock even more that's a win. His resume isn't as good because last year was his real breakout year. You should be skeptical of one year of performance, but it's a developing player so you don't dismiss it either. If his jump, and subsequent summer league performance, are any indication he's going to be really valuable in a couple years. Of course, it depends on how good his defense actually is. Jackson doesn't impress me at all but we will see. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 22, 2016 7:23:53 GMT -5
If the Celtics retain Naders rights but don't sign him to the 15 man roster he can go play in the D league but would be open to be signed away by another Club. I don't believe that is true. According to what I've found, once you make the QO, you retain their rights (unless they accept and then get cut from your roster). Not finding anything that is contrary to that (so if you have something, I'd love to read it). |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 22, 2016 8:01:59 GMT -5
So I found this from Larry Coon's FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q51)
It's a bit confusing since it talks about guys playing college ball after they are drafted (I'm guessing that it's a case where, from the NBA's standpoint, a player can go back to school but the NCAA would declare them ineligible).
If I'm reading this correctly, Boston maintains their rights to them until next year (I guess they can re-address the situation then??) as long as he agrees to sign elsewhere (including the D-league where some players sign a contract whereas others are assigned by their NBA teams).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 22, 2016 12:21:31 GMT -5
I think NBA needs to come up with a way so American players can play in D league and not count against cap or roster space. Right now a bunch of international players are getting picked way higher in draft then they should just because they won't count on salary cap and roster. It's really an unfair advantage for international players over American players.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 22, 2016 13:06:17 GMT -5
But that's in place now, isn't it? A US Born player can play in the D-League (even a 1st rounder such as Huestis) or go overseas (as we often see with 2nd rounders like Iverson and Thornton), while doing exactly what you'd like to see (not count against the roster or cap).
We don't see it often with US-Born 1st rounders bc few enter the draft thinking that they can't make an NBA roster. If the option to defer their cap hit and roster spot was presented to NBA teams before or during the draft, I think we'd see it happen more. I'm not sure that's the NBA's responsibility.
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