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5/7 MiL Gameday Thread: MiLB's rare triple double
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 7, 2016 21:08:28 GMT -5
Looked more like a rocket than a flair from the video Josh Norris posted. Tweet from @hudsonbelinsky: Andrew Benintendi just destroyed a 95-mph heater from Connor Walsh, ripping it into the RF corner for a double. #stud Just saw the Norris video, everyone's got one but mine is that neither rocket or flair does it. Somewhere between but agree, more towards the rocket end of the spectrum but barely so, too much arc to be a rocket, not enough to be a flair. The AB after, he sent the RF to the warning track on a high fly.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 7, 2016 21:24:14 GMT -5
After a somewhat shaky start, Lakins dialed it in and came out with a solid outing.
Drive game stopped, they had an issue with one of the light poles. Game will be continued another day with Drive down 5-0.
PawSox split Portland dropped 2 one run games. (If only there was a way to solve that problem.) Salem split
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,416
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Post by radiohix on May 7, 2016 21:25:56 GMT -5
Since the whole "Moncada strikes out too much" argument started a week ago, he's gone 8 for 21 with 3 doubles, 3 homers, 12 runs scored, 9 RBI, 3/3 stolen bases, and four walks. .381/.480/.810. But yeah those six strikeouts totally make him a non-prospect. Hope the Sox can get Fernando Rodney for him before he's exposed to Double-A pitching. James, you're one of the posters here that I look forward to read their opinions because I learn something most of the time but let's be fair here: when did I ever said he's a non-prospect? Let's put it this way, when I raised my concerns about his k rate, he was sporting a 23-24% rate with a .130 IsoP, that's a red flag for me for someone that the organization invested considerable ressources in and who might end up in the OF. If he was, say putting Cecchini's k%/IsoP in A+, I wouldn't be "bitching" about this. Now if he keeps hitting bombs and striking out at 22-23% clip, I'll be cool with that too. Anyway, the guy has so much talent that I hold him at some very high(impossible?) standards. Maybe I went over the top by mentionning those Ks multiple times and rubbed people here the wrong way and if so, I apologize for that. And hey! We're all Sox fanatics here, it's not like we're rooting against our spects here William Cuevas aside of course.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 7, 2016 21:50:35 GMT -5
Not intended as a pile on...
You can up the OBP to .500, he walked in his last PA.
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Post by James Dunne on May 7, 2016 22:05:59 GMT -5
Maybe I went over the top by mentionning those Ks multiple times and rubbed people here the wrong way and if so, I apologize for that. You did, but it's all good. Happens to us all every so often, sometimes without realizing it. ----- Anyhow, today marked the one month mark in the season. My takeaways thus far: -The Red Sox have never had a second-best prospect as good as whoever you think is their second best prospect right now. Debating Moncada vs. Benintendi kind of misses the bigger picture of holy cow we get to follow both Moncada and Benintendi on a daily basis this is amazing. -Backwards-seeming year for the 2015 graduates. Rodriguez hasn't debuted in the majors yet, Swihart played poorly and is now kind of in a strange place position-wise, Owens major league time was pretty much worst case scenario given the strengths and weaknesses he'd shown in the minors, Barnes has been very inconsistent (though better recently). On the other hand, the prospects who graduated in 2015 who were never in the Top 5, Shaw, Wright, and Hembree, have all been quite good. The two former being truly key pieces in the team's success. -The strong play out of the tier of prospects in Greenville has probably been the most encouraging thing in the system. We all were pretty sure that Benintendi and Moncada were studs, but the steps forward from Chavis, Washington, Ockimey, and Luis Alejandro give the system a feeling of depth that wasn't there before the year. I thought entering the season that the team was weaker than usually in the 15-40 range, and I don't necessarily feel that way now. I know it's a small sample, so I haven't necessarily changed my opinion much on any individual players, the volume of positive feedback at that level makes me feel a lot better that there are a couple guys who are for real. -This was brewing last year, but Roniel Raudes is my new player to be irrationally excited about. I am going to talk about his obedient curveball more than is appropriate.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2016 22:07:13 GMT -5
Players who have high BB rates also have a tendency to high K rates. That makes sense as they tend to go deep into counts. I see it, in moderation, as a feature, not a bug. 23% is by no means out of hand for a guy who's on base as much as he is. I also think it's foolish to worry about his power. He's slugging well over .500 at this point.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on May 7, 2016 22:13:05 GMT -5
Not intended as a pile on... You can up the OBP to .500, he walked in his last AB. Furthermore, the SA is miscalculated. He's .381 / .500 / .952 in this stretch. And I don't believe that high K rates when accompanied by high BB rates and high Iso are a negative indicator. After all, team SO rate is positively correlated to RS, because at the MLB level it tends to be correlated with both of those. Moncada does rank about 144th out of 244 high-A qualified hitters for good K rate. But he ranks 8th in BB rate and about 27th in Iso (and 14th in BABIP). This isn't all that rare. Coming into today there were 18 players in high-A with wRC+ of 170 or better. Moncada actually had the 8th best K rate, along with the 2nd best BB rate, for the fourth best K-W. His control of the strike zone is actually a significant strength, not a weakness, relative to other elite high-A hitters.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on May 7, 2016 22:20:44 GMT -5
Counterpoint: a "good hitting for a catcher" player who can also field another defensive position adequately, or better, is more valuable than "a good hitting for a catcher" player who can not. Rhetorical question of my own: Why do some find this so hard to grasp? That might make logical sense if said player didn't have issues to work out at the current position he already knows. It would seem he's getting work at both positions. 10 GS started catching vs. 5 GS in OF. To date, in four years of professional baseball he's yet to play in 100 games. Barring injury, he'll do that this year. That 40 or so of those games this year will be spent in the OF seems more an efficient use of his developmental time than a waste.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 7, 2016 22:43:45 GMT -5
Not intended as a pile on... You can up the OBP to .500, he walked in his last AB. Furthermore, the SA is miscalculated. He's .381 / .500 / .952 in this stretch. And I don't believe that high K rates when accompanied by high BB rates and high Iso are a negative indicator. After all, team SO rate is positively correlated to RS, because at the MLB level it tends to be correlated with both of those. Moncada does rank about 144th out of 244 high-A qualified hitters for good K rate. But he ranks 8th in BB rate and about 27th in Iso (and 14th in BABIP). This isn't all that rare. Coming into today there were 18 players in high-A with wRC+ of 170 or better. Moncada actually had the 8th best K rate, along with the 2nd best BB rate, for the fourth best K-W. His control of the strike zone is actually a significant strength, not a weakness, relative to other elite high-A hitters. Jeez, he's like a single or so away from a .400/.500/1.000 and that doesn't even include the runs production stuff which was also pretty much off the charts.
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Post by cologneredsox on May 8, 2016 6:59:31 GMT -5
Boy, not sure how this guy will ever get by with contact issues like this: Oppo power! Did it land already?
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Post by jimed14 on May 8, 2016 8:17:33 GMT -5
Since the whole "Moncada strikes out too much" argument started a week ago, he's gone 8 for 21 with 3 doubles, 3 homers, 12 runs scored, 9 RBI, 3/3 stolen bases, and four walks. .381/.480/.810. But yeah those six strikeouts totally make him a non-prospect. Hope the Sox can get Fernando Rodney for him before he's exposed to Double-A pitching. James, you're one of the posters here that I look forward to read their opinions because I learn something most of the time but let's be fair here: when did I ever said he's a non-prospect? Let's put it this way, when I raised my concerns about his k rate, he was sporting a 23-24% rate with a .130 IsoP, that's a red flag for me for someone that the organization invested considerable ressources in and who might end up in the OF. If he was, say putting Cecchini's k%/IsoP in A+, I wouldn't be "bitching" about this. Now if he keeps hitting bombs and striking out at 22-23% clip, I'll be cool with that too. Anyway, the guy has so much talent that I hold him at some very high(impossible?) standards. Maybe I went over the top by mentionning those Ks multiple times and rubbed people here the wrong way and if so, I apologize for that. And hey! We're all Sox fanatics here, it's not like we're rooting against our spects here William Cuevas aside of course. He has plenty of power and walks to more than make up for the strikeouts. I mean I guess there is proof that he's not going to be like a combination of Barry Bonds and Wade Boggs, but that's the only concern right now.
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Post by jchang on May 8, 2016 8:57:29 GMT -5
Given that most prospects do not arrive in system fully polished, just waiting for some physical growth, the presence of any flaws in their game should not be a red flag unless there is reason to believe it is a flaw that cannot be corrected. I would imagine that Yoan had fun mashing balls in Cuba rather than strictly follow that most statistically correct approach to achieving maximum WAR value. The purpose of the minor league hierarchy is to progressively correct flaws in a prospects game. Adrian Beltre was rushed through the minors and still had poor plate discipline as of a few years ago, of course he could also manage xbh on pitches far out of the strike zone
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 8, 2016 9:19:37 GMT -5
He has plenty of power and walks to more than make up for the strikeouts. I mean I guess there is proof that he's not going to be like a combination of Barry Bonds and Wade Boggs, but that's the only concern right now. Well, that and his defense ... he's fine offensively, but he really needs to work on his defense.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 8, 2016 9:39:13 GMT -5
Moncada has been working on his patience at the plate and working deeper in the count according to his hitting coach Nelson Paulino, he told Tyler Maun of MiLB.com, "[Working counts] is another thing we've tried to work on. Sometimes he swings at so many pitches the pitcher [throws] that he's working behind in the count, but in the last couple games, he's been more patient, more quiet and he's ready for his pitch."www.minorleagueball.com/2016/5/8/11618852/red-sox-yoan-moncada-andrew-benintendi-winstom-salem#6468499
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 8, 2016 9:43:51 GMT -5
He has plenty of power and walks to more than make up for the strikeouts. I mean I guess there is proof that he's not going to be like a combination of Barry Bonds and Wade Boggs, but that's the only concern right now. Well, that and his defense ... he's fine offensively, but he really needs to work on his defense. I'm curious what people think the odds are that Moncada is an infielder when he reaches the majors? I'm thinking something like 20%. And with his speed, I think he settles in as a plus outfielder able to play all three outfield positions. As for his offense, I'm not concerned at all with the strikeouts because there has been so much chatter about him working on his approach, taking more pitches, and working the count. His walks have improved tremendously and now hes showing the very obvious plus power he has. All while keeping his Ks at a reasonable level.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 8, 2016 9:57:31 GMT -5
I think he's our center fielder of the future with Benintendi in left. Yoan Moncada, 2b, Salem. With BA’s Josh Norris and Hudson Belinsky on hand, baseball’s No. 3 overall prospect hit his third homer in six games to key an eight-run fifth inning as high Class A Salem beat Winston-Salem (White Sox) 8-4. Playing on the most-talent packed roster in the minors, Moncada still stands out for his premium tools. He’s slashing .330/.460/.530 and has stolen 15 bases in 18 attempts. A promotion to Double-A—along with center fielder Andrew Benintendi—is probably not far off. www.baseballamerica.com/minors/baseball-america-prospect-report-2/#HO3iUKjbJxT8SZzy.97Note that BA's data sheet is incorrect on the stolen bases. He has 19 with 4 CS.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 13:07:00 GMT -5
I don't know about center field with JBJ and Mookie on board, both of whom have proven they can play a plus center field. I really like Moncada's profile as a right fielder. He has the tangibles to play there with his athleticism, speed, and arm strength. We don't know about his instincts at the position, of course, which is crucial for any outfield spot. But if he winds up in the outfield, I think it will be in right field based on his skill set as well as the current roster construction in Boston.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on May 8, 2016 14:03:49 GMT -5
Well, that and his defense ... he's fine offensively, but he really needs to work on his defense. I'm curious what people think the odds are that Moncada is an infielder when he reaches the majors? I'm thinking something like 20%. And with his speed, I think he settles in as a plus outfielder able to play all three outfield positions. As for his offense, I'm not concerned at all with the strikeouts because there has been so much chatter about him working on his approach, taking more pitches, and working the count. His walks have improved tremendously and now hes showing the very obvious plus power he has. All while keeping his Ks at a reasonable level. There will be a strong organizational rationale to have him try to play 3B. Right now it seems unlikely that Travis will be a better ballplayer than JBJ, so a triple-B OF with Moncada, Bogaerts, Pedroia, and Shaw as the INF seems like a better lineup than the one where Moncada is somewhere in the OF, Bradley is traded, and Travis is either the 1B or the DH with Hanley manning the other spot. In the Moncada at 3B scenario, Travis either is the sort of elite bench player we thought Shaw would be this year, or is trade bait.
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 8, 2016 14:54:48 GMT -5
Well, that and his defense ... he's fine offensively, but he really needs to work on his defense. I'm curious what people think the odds are that Moncada is an infielder when he reaches the majors? I'm thinking something like 20%. And with his speed, I think he settles in as a plus outfielder able to play all three outfield positions. As for his offense, I'm not concerned at all with the strikeouts because there has been so much chatter about him working on his approach, taking more pitches, and working the count. His walks have improved tremendously and now hes showing the very obvious plus power he has. All while keeping his Ks at a reasonable level. I think he'll stay. He's got the tools to be an infielder, he just needs to get more consistent and precise. Extreme small sample, of course, but in the one game I saw he looked fine on catching ground balls, seemed quick and smooth, but needed a little bit better concentration. He was a horror show receiving throws at second and an adventure in coordinating with other fielders on pop ups and cut-off plays. All fixable stuff, just needed some more concentration and a little practice around the bag. But I dunno, maybe I'm talking myself into third base ... he'd be great coming in on bunts there; he's explosively quick. Whatever, they have time to figure that out, but I think he can stay on the dirt. I'd put it at 60-70%.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 8, 2016 15:17:42 GMT -5
I'm curious what people think the odds are that Moncada is an infielder when he reaches the majors? I'm thinking something like 20%. And with his speed, I think he settles in as a plus outfielder able to play all three outfield positions. As for his offense, I'm not concerned at all with the strikeouts because there has been so much chatter about him working on his approach, taking more pitches, and working the count. His walks have improved tremendously and now hes showing the very obvious plus power he has. All while keeping his Ks at a reasonable level. I think he'll stay. He's got the tools to be an infielder, he just needs to get more consistent and precise. Extreme small sample, of course, but in the one game I saw he looked fine on catching ground balls, seemed quick and smooth, but needed a little bit better concentration. He was a horror show receiving throws at second and an adventure in coordinating with other fielders on pop ups and cut-off plays. All fixable stuff, just needed some more concentration and a little practice around the bag. But I dunno, maybe I'm talking myself into third base ... he'd be great coming in on bunts there; he's explosively quick. Whatever, they have time to figure that out, but I think he can stay on the dirt. I'd put it at 60-70%. It's good to hear that his issues seem like the kind that won't keep him off the infield. And I definitely agree with Eric that it will help tremendously with roster construction if he can play the infield. But I'm having trouble getting past my gut feel that he would be a much, much better outfielder than infielder. I can see him being plus-plus in center with that speed. I don't see his instincts ever getting him much past average on the dirt.
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 8, 2016 16:07:48 GMT -5
I think he'll stay. He's got the tools to be an infielder, he just needs to get more consistent and precise. Extreme small sample, of course, but in the one game I saw he looked fine on catching ground balls, seemed quick and smooth, but needed a little bit better concentration. He was a horror show receiving throws at second and an adventure in coordinating with other fielders on pop ups and cut-off plays. All fixable stuff, just needed some more concentration and a little practice around the bag. But I dunno, maybe I'm talking myself into third base ... he'd be great coming in on bunts there; he's explosively quick. Whatever, they have time to figure that out, but I think he can stay on the dirt. I'd put it at 60-70%. It's good to hear that his issues seem like the kind that won't keep him off the infield. And I definitely agree with Eric that it will help tremendously with roster construction if he can play the infield. But I'm having trouble getting past my gut feel that he would be a much, much better outfielder than infielder. I can see him being plus-plus in center with that speed. I don't see his instincts ever getting him much past average on the dirt. I dunno, instincts are often indistinguishable from experience when it comes to stuff like this, at least to me ... I'm pretty confident that he'd get better at all of these things. And he's fast, sure, but he's also really, *really* quick. His short-area burst is the most impressive physical attribute I saw. He'd rock the shuttle drill at the NFL combine. I mean, there's still a 30-40% chance in my prediction that he'll end up in the OF; he has some developing to do, for sure. But there's no intrinsic reason he won't get there, imo. Although I do agree with you that he has the athletic traits of a great outfielder, so it's not the end of the world if he doesn't.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 9, 2016 0:49:06 GMT -5
I'm curious what people think the odds are that Moncada is an infielder when he reaches the majors? I'm thinking something like 20%. And with his speed, I think he settles in as a plus outfielder able to play all three outfield positions. As for his offense, I'm not concerned at all with the strikeouts because there has been so much chatter about him working on his approach, taking more pitches, and working the count. His walks have improved tremendously and now hes showing the very obvious plus power he has. All while keeping his Ks at a reasonable level. There will be a strong organizational rationale to have him try to play 3B. Right now it seems unlikely that Travis will be a better ballplayer than JBJ, so a triple-B OF with Moncada, Bogaerts, Pedroia, and Shaw as the INF seems like a better lineup than the one where Moncada is somewhere in the OF, Bradley is traded, and Travis is either the 1B or the DH with Hanley manning the other spot. In the Moncada at 3B scenario, Travis either is the sort of elite bench player we thought Shaw would be this year, or is trade bait. I agree with the bolded part which is why I came to the conclusion that Moncada would be better off initially in center but with a slightly different reasoning. As it stands now, with Ortiz retiring it looks like Travis/Hanley 1B/DH (or the dreaded expensive/aging free agent route). But that's a lesser combination than 4 plus outfielders (Bradley, Betts, Moncada, Benintendi) rotating to some extent through the DH slot, leaving Hanley at first and Shaw at third and Holt in utility where you maximize their values. Just to clarify, I think of Sam Travis as a second division starting first baseman or first division bench bat. He only plays first and isn't a plus defender so there isn't much versatility there or even likely. In the above, the question becomes who's more valuable a third first baseman or a third catcher. If Hernandez (or Marrero) was the other bench piece there's room to carry one of those choices.
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Post by sox fan in nc on May 9, 2016 9:20:00 GMT -5
Benintendi is starting another streak hopefully they let this one extend to Portland soon. First time poster but longtime reader and user of sox prospects Welcome to the forum Virginia neighbor.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 9, 2016 10:46:32 GMT -5
Benintendi is starting another streak hopefully they let this one extend to Portland soon. First time poster but longtime reader and user of sox prospects Welcome to the forum Virginia neighbor. [/quote] "Sox fan in NC" ... "Virginia neighbor"... eh?
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Post by jrffam05 on May 9, 2016 11:38:35 GMT -5
Benintendi is starting another streak hopefully they let this one extend to Portland soon. First time poster but longtime reader and user of sox prospects Welcome to the forum Virginia neighbor. "Sox fan in NC" ... "Virginia neighbor"... eh? Virgina and North Carolina share a border.
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