SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2016 Trade Deadline News and Discussion
|
Post by kman22 on Jul 25, 2016 21:05:26 GMT -5
Why? From what I read the Dodgers would part with Urias to get Sale and he's the best pitching prospect in the game. Moncada is the best prospect in the game (who's not a pitcher), and the Sox don't have a pitcher in Urias' class, so why wouldn't Moncada be the guy the White Sox require for Sale? Because while getting a top prospect is important, getting Espinoza and Devers, plus Swihart and Owens who can already contribute in the majors would far outweigh the potential of one prospect? It doesn't matter since they don't have Espinoza anymore, but I really don't think you could say that that package wouldn't have closed the deal done.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2016 21:25:24 GMT -5
Why? From what I read the Dodgers would part with Urias to get Sale and he's the best pitching prospect in the game. Moncada is the best prospect in the game (who's not a pitcher), and the Sox don't have a pitcher in Urias' class, so why wouldn't Moncada be the guy the White Sox require for Sale? Because while getting a top prospect is important, getting Espinoza and Devers, plus Swihart and Owens who can already contribute in the majors would far outweigh the potential of one prospect? It doesn't matter since they don't have Espinoza anymore, but I really don't think you could say that that package wouldn't have closed the deal done. I guess we can only really guess. With the Padres, Dombrowski tried a counter proposal to try to keep Espinoza with the Sox but Preller made it clear that if he were to trade Pomeranz it was going to cost the Sox Espinoza, whom he felt was the clear prize. Actually, here's a quote from Jeff Passan's column re: Sale: "If the Red Sox want Sale, the deal starts with Yoan Moncada or Andrew Benintendi (whom the White Sox wanted in last year’s draft before the Red Sox sniped him a pick before)" So not only would it cost Moncada, but Beni as well. And others.
|
|
|
Post by dnfl333 on Jul 25, 2016 21:39:00 GMT -5
I saw on CSNNE that the Marlins have been scouting Eduardo Rodriguez. I haven't heard any rumors there, but I wonder who they could be discussing outside of Fernandez? Yellich
|
|
|
Post by kman22 on Jul 25, 2016 21:55:51 GMT -5
Because while getting a top prospect is important, getting Espinoza and Devers, plus Swihart and Owens who can already contribute in the majors would far outweigh the potential of one prospect? It doesn't matter since they don't have Espinoza anymore, but I really don't think you could say that that package wouldn't have closed the deal done. I guess we can only really guess. With the Padres, Dombrowski tried a counter proposal to try to keep Espinoza with the Sox but Preller made it clear that if he were to trade Pomeranz it was going to cost the Sox Espinoza, whom he felt was the clear prize. Actually, here's a quote from Jeff Passan's column re: Sale: "If the Red Sox want Sale, the deal starts with Yoan Moncada or Andrew Benintendi (whom the White Sox wanted in last year’s draft before the Red Sox sniped him a pick before)" So not only would it cost Moncada, but Beni as well. And others. For one, that quote literally says "or" not "and". Second, that doesn't say that the White Sox prefer Moncada to that package, and why would it, since Espinoza got traded. It's bold to say that they'd undoubtedly prefer one top prospect to 2 top 5 prospects, plus a major league ready catcher (with a potential all star bat) and a backend lefthanded starter with upside to get to mid rotation starter. But like you said, we can only guess, and I'd guess that they'd be open to negotiations that did not include Moncada if Devers, Swihart, Espinoza, AND Owens were offered.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2016 22:16:25 GMT -5
I guess we can only really guess. With the Padres, Dombrowski tried a counter proposal to try to keep Espinoza with the Sox but Preller made it clear that if he were to trade Pomeranz it was going to cost the Sox Espinoza, whom he felt was the clear prize. Actually, here's a quote from Jeff Passan's column re: Sale: "If the Red Sox want Sale, the deal starts with Yoan Moncada or Andrew Benintendi (whom the White Sox wanted in last year’s draft before the Red Sox sniped him a pick before)" So not only would it cost Moncada, but Beni as well. And others. For one, that quote literally says "or" not "and". Second, that doesn't say that the White Sox prefer Moncada to that package, and why would it, since Espinoza got traded. It's bold to say that they'd undoubtedly prefer one top prospect to 2 top 5 prospects, plus a major league ready catcher (with a potential all star bat) and a backend lefthanded starter with upside to get to mid rotation starter. But like you said, we can only guess, and I'd guess that they'd be open to negotiations that did not include Moncada if Devers, Swihart, Espinoza, AND Owens were offered. Ah, that all-too-difficult two letter word: OR. If that's the case from everything we've read Dombrowski doesn't want to part with Moncada so it would be so long Beni in that scenario.
|
|
fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
|
Post by fenwayfaithful on Jul 26, 2016 2:44:56 GMT -5
Bentendi and others for Sale would give Moncada a spot in LF without adjusting our roster which doesn't sound like a bad thing. Doesn't sound great but I'm guessing E-Rod would also be in that package to replace a lefty with a cy-young lefty. Sale is a winner he literally bashed his team for what they did to laroach and then cuts the jerseys because both situations are the white sox putting winning second. Sale Wright Price Porcello Pomeranz Plus sale is getting paid the same as Buchholz so just throw him in the deal as well lol.
|
|
|
Post by barney27 on Jul 26, 2016 6:49:12 GMT -5
you can't get something like chapman for nothing. torres is in A ball the cubs have a very talented young ss playing in the bigs NOW. same situation as the sox with xb playing short. The 3 prospects the cubs gave up are all surplus with proven people ahead of them right now. kimbrel deal the same thing for the sox. the center fielder the sox gave up is not a power hitter and very similar to jbj and betts, but they are already all stars at the big league level. Castillo was to be the answer as the third outfielder. the ss they gave up was behind dubon and Hernandez. years ago theo made a choice between Anderson and Rizzo to play first. did not work out pays your money and you take your chances.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Jul 26, 2016 6:57:00 GMT -5
Intelligent use of talent assets involves fully developing them and *then* trading them to get more assets, such that the talent supply at the MLB level never (or at least, rarely) forces a team into paying inflated prices. The Sox were probably a year or two away from that state of equilibrium, but Dombrowski has put them in a big hole with the Kimbrel and Pomeranz trades. The IFA restrictions after Guamairo et al are going to severely damage their pipeline, too. This franchise looks headed in the wrong direction again. They may very well make the playoffs, but when Ortiz leaves, this isn't a playoff team anymore. Then, it's back to wasting more money and making more ill-advised bandaid trades. While I agree with you that Dombrowski is taking the franchise in the wrong direction, I disagree as to how far Dombrowski needs to drive to ruin it. The Red Sox still have a core of cost-controlled talent that makes them the envy of a majority of other teams. Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley Jr. - these are guys that Dombrowski is not going to trade and who still have several years of excess value ahead of them. In Steven Wright, they have a very good starter who is making the league minimum. Porcello's contract is looking like a very good bargain at this point. Pedroia, for now, is still taking less money than his production on the field would warrant. And I don't know which of Vazquez, Swihart or even Leon it's going to be but the Sox are going to have one of the best catchers in the league for pennies. David Ortiz, amazing as it is what he can still do with the bat at his age, is not the only person who can propel this team into the playoffs. With so many budget superstars, the Sox easily have the money to take on the contract of someone like Joey Votto if they want another superstar hitter. That would hurt down the road but it would certainly keep them in playoff contention for at least another 5 years. (And it's only "playoff contention" instead of "guaranteed playoff spot" because the AL East is so tough.)
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Jul 26, 2016 7:35:35 GMT -5
Per Rosenthal, Jays get Melvin Upton Jr. from SD for a Class-A prospect.
|
|
|
Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 26, 2016 8:39:48 GMT -5
Per Rosenthal, Jays get Melvin Upton Jr. from SD for a Class-A prospect. Apparently the Padres are paying quite a bit of his remaining salary so I'd assume a fairly decent Class A prospect. Reid-Foley perhaps?
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Jul 26, 2016 9:13:29 GMT -5
Per Rosenthal, Jays get Melvin Upton Jr. from SD for a Class-A prospect. Apparently the Padres are paying quite a bit of his remaining salary so I'd assume a fairly decent Class A prospect. Reid-Foley perhaps? Yeah, I thought they'd get something pretty solid considering the $$$ being picked up, but it's Hansel Rodriguez going to SD. Meh. Interesting arm, but super young and raw.
|
|
|
Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 26, 2016 9:26:30 GMT -5
Apparently the Padres are paying quite a bit of his remaining salary so I'd assume a fairly decent Class A prospect. Reid-Foley perhaps? Yeah, I thought they'd get something pretty solid considering the $$$ being picked up, but it's Hansel Rodriguez going to SD. Meh. Interesting arm, but super young and raw. Interesting. He's not a guy I'd pay a decent chunk of Upton's salary to acquire. High ceiling but quite a ways away and screams "bullpen arm" to me.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jul 26, 2016 10:04:47 GMT -5
I think the bigger issue is that there weren't a lot of teams in on Upton. Teams are rightfully wary about buying high on a guy whose resurgence consists of only 600ish PAs (during which time he faced slightly more lefties than the league-average) and who had a couple seasons before that of uselessness. Plus, as he's aged, his once-excellent range has declined, to the point where the Padres have mostly played him in LF this year. He's above-average defensively in LF, but, as a league-average hitter, he's a borderline starter and better suited as a fourth outfielder.
|
|
alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
|
Post by alnipper on Jul 26, 2016 10:08:17 GMT -5
If we can't get Sale or Quintana, I would trade for a solid bullpen arm. The current roster will be a playoff caliber team for years to come. This year the Sox have had a lot of injuries. I think we need a healthy rotation to make the playoffs though.
|
|
|
Post by bosox81 on Jul 26, 2016 10:27:41 GMT -5
Margot was pulled from a game on Saturday and he wasn't injured. Could he be headed to San Diego?
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Jul 26, 2016 10:28:31 GMT -5
I think the bigger issue is that there weren't a lot of teams in on Upton. Teams are rightfully wary about buying high on a guy whose resurgence consists of only 600ish PAs (during which time he faced slightly more lefties than the league-average) and who had a couple seasons before that of uselessness. Plus, as he's aged, his once-excellent range has declined, to the point where the Padres have mostly played him in LF this year. He's above-average defensively in LF, but, as a league-average hitter, he's a borderline starter and better suited as a fourth outfielder. Yeah, a fair point. I wouldn't be too thrilled if the Sox had gotten him to help out in LF. Having him face RHP back in the AL in a higher pressure environment is just too much risk to give up anything of value.
|
|
|
Post by telluricrook on Jul 26, 2016 11:01:57 GMT -5
Margot was pulled from a game on Saturday and he wasn't injured. Could he be headed to San Diego? Saturday? Its tuesday i dont think they would take him out of a game 3 days ahead if his promotion.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2016 11:26:18 GMT -5
Bentendi and others for Sale would give Moncada a spot in LF without adjusting our roster which doesn't sound like a bad thing. Doesn't sound great but I'm guessing E-Rod would also be in that package to replace a lefty with a cy-young lefty. Sale is a winner he literally bashed his team for what they did to laroach and then cuts the jerseys because both situations are the white sox putting winning second. Sale Wright Price Porcello Pomeranz Plus sale is getting paid the same as Buchholz so just throw him in the deal as well lol. He threw a tantrum, like a three-year-old. Let's not glorify what it was. Wanting to win doesn't excuse grossly unprofessional behavior. And "business," as Sale referred to it, is designed to make money, which also helps "winning." Almost completely obliterating the farm and giving up a talented young LH who sits 93-94 and who had significant MLB success prior to his injury for Sale is just a flat-out bad idea. Sale has just about cornered the market on red flags, and it's debatable that he'll be all that significant an upgrade over Rodriguez in 2-3 years.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2016 11:39:21 GMT -5
I really hope Sox don't trade for Sale. His wonky mechanics terrify me. Thing is, in a short series, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, and Wright ought to be solid. If Price pitches like a 1/2, it is like trading up after his poor season to date. If he continues to stink, the Sox are hurting no matter what.
Put Beni in left. Holt fortifies bench Kimbrel comes back, so Ziegler becomes main setup guy. Run Kelly out a few more times to see if he is effective.
All internal ways of improving. Again, if these flop, the season is in trouble and there's no sense going all in, especially with players close enough to help next season.
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Jul 26, 2016 11:39:28 GMT -5
Bentendi and others for Sale would give Moncada a spot in LF without adjusting our roster which doesn't sound like a bad thing. Doesn't sound great but I'm guessing E-Rod would also be in that package to replace a lefty with a cy-young lefty. Sale is a winner he literally bashed his team for what they did to laroach and then cuts the jerseys because both situations are the white sox putting winning second. Sale Wright Price Porcello Pomeranz Plus sale is getting paid the same as Buchholz so just throw him in the deal as well lol. Cutting up the jerseys is not White Sox putting winning second, it's Sale putting himself ahead of the team. He had a temper tantrum because he did not like the uniform (or perhaps team not asking his opinion on the uniform) with the inevitable result that he was suspended. His petulance hurt his teams chances of winning, not those terrible uniforms. Btw, I'm sure those throw backs were easier to play in then these uniforms the Red Sox wore a few years ago; 4.bp.blogspot.com/-VAdNM4A7uqI/TcTF8OARnTI/AAAAAAAAAyU/EiKq0O7WXSo/s1600/Boston.jpg
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2016 11:44:25 GMT -5
Intelligent use of talent assets involves fully developing them and *then* trading them to get more assets, such that the talent supply at the MLB level never (or at least, rarely) forces a team into paying inflated prices. The Sox were probably a year or two away from that state of equilibrium, but Dombrowski has put them in a big hole with the Kimbrel and Pomeranz trades. The IFA restrictions after Guamairo et al are going to severely damage their pipeline, too. This franchise looks headed in the wrong direction again. They may very well make the playoffs, but when Ortiz leaves, this isn't a playoff team anymore. Then, it's back to wasting more money and making more ill-advised bandaid trades. While I agree with you that Dombrowski is taking the franchise in the wrong direction, I disagree as to how far Dombrowski needs to drive to ruin it. The Red Sox still have a core of cost-controlled talent that makes them the envy of a majority of other teams. Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley Jr. - these are guys that Dombrowski is not going to trade and who still have several years of excess value ahead of them. In Steven Wright, they have a very good starter who is making the league minimum. Porcello's contract is looking like a very good bargain at this point. Pedroia, for now, is still taking less money than his production on the field would warrant. And I don't know which of Vazquez, Swihart or even Leon it's going to be but the Sox are going to have one of the best catchers in the league for pennies. David Ortiz, amazing as it is what he can still do with the bat at his age, is not the only person who can propel this team into the playoffs. With so many budget superstars, the Sox easily have the money to take on the contract of someone like Joey Votto if they want another superstar hitter. That would hurt down the road but it would certainly keep them in playoff contention for at least another 5 years. (And it's only "playoff contention" instead of "guaranteed playoff spot" because the AL East is so tough.) We probably are in more agreement than you think. My concern isn't so much for the next 3-4 years, because with Ortiz and Buchholz and probably Koji gone, they can afford a slugger. They can make the Sox contenders next year, especially if Price rebounds and Wright is the real deal. The issue is that, when they make the move, it's money tied up, and payroll for those next 3-4 years is stuck (actually, with the young guys, escalating) during that time. They have no marketable bad contracts, with the possible exception of Hanley (provided the Sox can find/produce a 1b). So when it comes time, they'll have some tough choices to make on Bogaerts, Betts, JBJ, etc. Those guys are all going to command $20M plus AAV as it's going. Now, Hanley and Panda will be going (Porcello too, and maybe Price). So the money will probably be there, but the "next wave" talent (the 2018-2019 equivalent of the 2013-2015 kids) won't...if Dombrowski keeps mortgaging the future for questionable gain today. I'd much prefer to see him do what the Cubs did last year and take his chances, standing pat. Sign undervalued FAs (like the Cubs did with Fowler and Zobrist) if there's a clear hole to be filled, or take on a Votto-like contract if there's a reasonable trade to be made. But preserving a constant stream of minor league talent is how teams stay *truly* competitive over the long-term. And with the IFA issues and (presumably, barring total collapse) worse draft position, there's an '08-'10-style incoming talent hole looming that Dombrowski ought to be considering.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 26, 2016 11:58:23 GMT -5
MLB Network Radio @mlbnetworkradio 14m14 minutes ago Farrell said he thinks the #RedSox are done at deadline "our biggest additions are going to come from the DL. We've got a very good team"
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2016 12:04:56 GMT -5
MLB Network Radio @mlbnetworkradio 14m14 minutes ago Farrell said he thinks the #RedSox are done at deadline "our biggest additions are going to come from the DL. We've got a very good team" That would be the best news all year.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Jul 26, 2016 13:33:36 GMT -5
MLB Network Radio @mlbnetworkradio 14m14 minutes ago Farrell said he thinks the #RedSox are done at deadline "our biggest additions are going to come from the DL. We've got a very good team" Maybe we should make Farrell the GM and Dombrowski the Manager. Might be an improvement in both departments.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Jul 26, 2016 13:36:27 GMT -5
My concern isn't so much for the next 3-4 years when Ortiz leaves, this isn't a playoff team anymore. We may be in agreement, we may not be, it's hard to tell.
|
|
|