SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2017 Red Sox Rotation Discussion
|
Post by soxjim on Dec 10, 2016 23:09:33 GMT -5
I did miss it.
But imo that's such a minor point. I think you're reaching with it.
There may never have been a need /over-abundancy of sp like what he has for this year.
I won't get into a big argument on this but I think it's a reach to draw any conclusion from your point.
How is it a minor point? They call him trader Dave and while in Detroit competing he never made trades like people are hoping for. I bring this up because I've heard I hope Pomeranz, Kimbrel and ERod pitch well next year, so we can flip them at deadline and recoup prospects from a ton of people. Dave's not doing that if we're playing well and have a chance to get to playoffs. Literally the one trade he made like that while in Detroit was when they were out of contention and the guy he traded was a to be free agent. The Fulmer trade was a great one, but do you really think he makes that trade if his team was leading division or held a wild card spot or even close to one? He's going to trade a starter this off-season, he almost has to and 95% chance it's Buchholz's because of his salary. Okay so they trade Clay. What if they get a rh bat platoon player for 3b and a prospect?
|
|
|
Post by soxjim on Dec 10, 2016 23:13:36 GMT -5
Well if DD wanted the ability to make a trade at the deadline, he should trade a starter for prospects now so there is something to trade other than Devers and Groome. There don't seem to be any trades to improve the team at this point in time, but later in the season there will obviously be some need that isn't there now. That's why I said umass's point was minor. You don't have to trade for prospects just because you are going to wait for them develop? You can trade them at a later date to make your team better. No one can pin down trader dave other than he isn't afraid to make moves and that he targets in the extreme certain players.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2016 0:24:27 GMT -5
How is it a minor point? They call him trader Dave and while in Detroit competing he never made trades like people are hoping for. I bring this up because I've heard I hope Pomeranz, Kimbrel and ERod pitch well next year, so we can flip them at deadline and recoup prospects from a ton of people. Dave's not doing that if we're playing well and have a chance to get to playoffs. Literally the one trade he made like that while in Detroit was when they were out of contention and the guy he traded was a to be free agent. The Fulmer trade was a great one, but do you really think he makes that trade if his team was leading division or held a wild card spot or even close to one? He's going to trade a starter this off-season, he almost has to and 95% chance it's Buchholz's because of his salary. Okay so they trade Clay. What if they get a rh bat platoon player for 3b and a prospect? I really don't expect much, so whatever DD gets will be like a bonus.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2016 0:35:29 GMT -5
Well if DD wanted the ability to make a trade at the deadline, he should trade a starter for prospects now so there is something to trade other than Devers and Groome. There don't seem to be any trades to improve the team at this point in time, but later in the season there will obviously be some need that isn't there now. That's why I said umass's point was minor. You don't have to trade for prospects just because you are going to wait for them develop? You can trade them at a later date to make your team better. No one can pin down trader dave other than he isn't afraid to make moves and that he targets in the extreme certain players.
My whole point was in season trades for prospects. I would see what's Wright's value currently is and I wouldn't be against DD trading Pomeranz, though I don't think he'll even consider it. By adding Sale and having a great top 3 that should give you 600 plus innings. You can afford to take some risks on back of rotation. I'm just not sure DD is thinking that way. Reports are that he's calling around trying to move Clay. It would be great to get some prospects back, I just think DD is giddy with our top 5 and a #6 as good as Wright.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 11, 2016 2:46:12 GMT -5
That's why I said umass's point was minor. You don't have to trade for prospects just because you are going to wait for them develop? You can trade them at a later date to make your team better. No one can pin down trader dave other than he isn't afraid to make moves and that he targets in the extreme certain players.
My whole point was in season trades for prospects. I would see what's Wright's value currently is and I wouldn't be against DD trading Pomeranz, though I don't think he'll even consider it. By adding Sale and having a great top 3 that should give you 600 plus innings. You can afford to take some risks on back of rotation. I'm just not sure DD is thinking that way. Reports are that he's calling around trying to move Clay. It would be great to get some prospects back, I just think DD is giddy with our top 5 and a #6 as good as Wright. reports are... make up stuff much ?
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2016 3:39:28 GMT -5
My whole point was in season trades for prospects. I would see what's Wright's value currently is and I wouldn't be against DD trading Pomeranz, though I don't think he'll even consider it. By adding Sale and having a great top 3 that should give you 600 plus innings. You can afford to take some risks on back of rotation. I'm just not sure DD is thinking that way. Reports are that he's calling around trying to move Clay. It would be great to get some prospects back, I just think DD is giddy with our top 5 and a #6 as good as Wright. reports are... make up stuff much ? mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/12/10/nick-cafardo-red-sox-should-deal-pomeranz-not-buchholz/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo&ref=yfpCafardo say Sox are marketing Buchholz to other teams! So what am I making up? Does it upset you that I read more than you? Unreal!
|
|
|
Post by m1keyboots on Dec 11, 2016 4:28:41 GMT -5
I see the back and forth about all the lefties. And the arguement about the Green Monster, the arm slots/mound locations, different velocities, different stylesetc. And think in the end despite those factors it might be a detriment in that respect. Of course having the best pitchers there means more than their handenness. However I think having different types of pitchers in the rotation can change teams game plans and hitters timings. Especially in the division over a season
HOWEVER. When two of the lefties are 2 of the 3 best lefty starters in the game, I think the problem lies more in having Pomeranz and Eduardo and then that becoming redundant and/or mediocre. Pomeranz didn't look ready to pitch in Boston, hopefully that changes but for me it's
1. Porcello 2. Price 3. Sale 4. Wright 5. Erod
As the media rotation. Policorrect..whereas talent performance and effect on outcomes based not only on last year but overall I think it's 1.Porcello- I have to admit he looked awesome for about 15 starts in a row just by changing speeds which always ages well. The improvement he showed was obv unexpected but he didnt jump in velocity. It just looked like a good pitcher figuring out how to be great consistently 2. Sale. He's Chris sale and has a Wipeout slider and a dart fastball from a tough arm slot
3. Price- seems more of a solid innings eating ace now than the guy that was dominant. Changeup looked better but was getting tattooed at times
4. Wright- when he's on and was all last year he is prime Wakefield with a little better fastball. I think his value is higher in the rotation than the pen
5. EROD bc of the potential. However none of his pitches blow me away anymore.
And as many times as I, and the people on this site have trashed and given up on Clay....the guy got it done down the stretch when many a pro athlete would have been pissed their routine was messed up, their starts were being given away to guys like Joe kelly, Henry Owens and company. But he stayed a pros pro.
Here's to Clay posting 200 innings and winning 15 games
Edit for spelling and overall laughable grammar
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 11, 2016 4:57:27 GMT -5
Ah Cafardo, explains a lot. It bothers me that you make blatant statements all the time without citing a source. If you said, according to Cafardo, we'd all have an idea of how much weight to put into it. Pretty much every other piece says DD is only taking calls and that there have been several. DD even said he was going to wait for the market to develop. Read, for example, what he told the Mariners who had called on Buchholz and Pomeranz. There's no need to rush here. DD really doesn't have to do anything until spring. If someone makes an offer he can't refuse he'd take it. Cafardo makes no sense here, per usual. ADD: The piece you are quoting is a Cafardo spinoff and no place does it say "DD is calling around" Try this Cafardo piece: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/12/07/teams-calling-red-sox-about-extra-starting-pitchers/WPANxE2fJf1LtLYIverJVL/story.html?s_campaign=108stitches:newsletter “We have had a lot of phone calls on our pitchers, and different ones,” Dombrowski said. “We’re just sitting back at this point and collecting thought processes. We’re not aggressively looking into doing something but just digesting what’s in place. If we were aggressively looking to do something we could, but I don’t have a glaring hole on our major league roster at this time to address, in my opinion. So I think it’s important to gather information.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2016 5:37:49 GMT -5
Ah Cafardo, explains a lot. It bothers me that you make blatant statements all the time without citing a source. If you said, according to Cafardo, we'd all have an idea of how much weight to put into it. Pretty much every other piece says DD is only taking calls and that there have been several. DD even said he was going to wait for the market to develop. Read, for example, what he told the Mariners who had called on Buchholz and Pomeranz. There's no need to rush here. DD really doesn't have to do anything until spring. If someone makes an offer he can't refuse he'd take it. Cafardo makes no sense here, per usual. ADD: The piece you are quoting is a Cafardo spinoff and no place does it say "DD is calling around" Try this Cafardo piece: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/12/07/teams-calling-red-sox-about-extra-starting-pitchers/WPANxE2fJf1LtLYIverJVL/story.html?s_campaign=108stitches:newsletter “We have had a lot of phone calls on our pitchers, and different ones,” Dombrowski said. “We’re just sitting back at this point and collecting thought processes. We’re not aggressively looking into doing something but just digesting what’s in place. If we were aggressively looking to do something we could, but I don’t have a glaring hole on our major league roster at this time to address, in my opinion. So I think it’s important to gather information. Come on. You implied I was a liar and that I was making things up. All you had to do was ask if I had a source because you hadn't heard that. Now your trying to nitpick when I show you what I based my comment on. I was paraphrasing what was said. Based on what was said in that article. So if Sox are marketing Buchholz you don't think it's DD or someone he has told to do that? How do you think they are doing that? By phone, the article you posted says phone calls. Based on what I read I stand behind my comment 100%. Way to make a stupid comment even worse. Next time try a simple my bad or don't make the comment in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 11, 2016 5:48:36 GMT -5
Ah Cafardo, explains a lot. It bothers me that you make blatant statements all the time without citing a source. If you said, according to Cafardo, we'd all have an idea of how much weight to put into it. Pretty much every other piece says DD is only taking calls and that there have been several. DD even said he was going to wait for the market to develop. Read, for example, what he told the Mariners who had called on Buchholz and Pomeranz. There's no need to rush here. DD really doesn't have to do anything until spring. If someone makes an offer he can't refuse he'd take it. Cafardo makes no sense here, per usual. ADD: The piece you are quoting is a Cafardo spinoff and no place does it say "DD is calling around" Try this Cafardo piece: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/12/07/teams-calling-red-sox-about-extra-starting-pitchers/WPANxE2fJf1LtLYIverJVL/story.html?s_campaign=108stitches:newsletter “We have had a lot of phone calls on our pitchers, and different ones,” Dombrowski said. “We’re just sitting back at this point and collecting thought processes. We’re not aggressively looking into doing something but just digesting what’s in place. If we were aggressively looking to do something we could, but I don’t have a glaring hole on our major league roster at this time to address, in my opinion. So I think it’s important to gather information. Come on. You implied I was a liar and that I was making things up. All you had to do was ask if I had a source because you hadn't heard that. Now your trying to nitpick when I show you what I based my comment on. I was paraphrasing what was said. Based on what was said in that article. So if Sox are marketing Buchholz you don't think it's DD or someone he has told to do that? How do you think they are doing that? By phone, the article you posted says phone calls. Based on what I read I stand behind my comment 100%. Way to make a stupid comment even worse. Next time try a simple my bad or don't make the comment in the first place. I didn't need to know if you had a source because every article I read had other teams calling the Sox. There's a major difference between what Cafardo said and the way you stated it to support a point. The article says teams are calling the Sox, not the made up viewpoint that you were trying to use to support an argument. You paint a picture that isn't true. "Reports are that he's calling around trying to move Clay." is just not what's happening.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Dec 11, 2016 9:15:43 GMT -5
Please cut out the petty bickering. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2016 14:21:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by tookme55 on Dec 11, 2016 15:38:24 GMT -5
We always need to pay attention to what DD is saying or implying.
Pomeranz is his guy. A lefty, 6-6 (?, please don't call me out for making this up, I'm pretty sure he's 6-4 plus), someone HE ACQUIRED. For anyone to say that DD is marketing wrong guy doesn't understand how this works.
|
|
|
Post by digit on Dec 11, 2016 21:13:20 GMT -5
For anyone to say that DD is marketing wrong guy doesn't understand how this works. It's Nick Cafardo. When has he ever written something that actually shows he -understands- these things?
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Dec 13, 2016 23:37:31 GMT -5
We always need to pay attention to what DD is saying or implying. Pomeranz is his guy. A lefty, 6-6 (?, please don't call me out for making this up, I'm pretty sure he's 6-4 plus), someone HE ACQUIRED. For anyone to say that DD is marketing wrong guy doesn't understand how this works. One thing I will say about dombrowski is he pretty much says exactly what he plans to do. He's not pumping out excessive amounts of misinformation. He just does what he says. And based on the sale saga, if he says he is remotely interested, then know remotely really means extremely if the athlete in question is a rare talent.
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 14, 2016 17:40:14 GMT -5
I'm reposting this from something I brought up yesterday (Maybe this is another thread, but what should the rotation be?) I'd like the Sox not to put their eggs in order so to speak, but rather spread out the big 3 of Sale(L), Price(L) and Porcello(R). During the regular season breaking them up 1, 3 & 5 the order matters not. It allmost makes it a sure thing the bullpen is not overtaxed 2 days in a row (or would you buy less likely?), thus likely decreasing the amount of times Farrel has to make decisions on high leverage situations based on usage etc. I'd go with E-Rod(L) and Pomeranz (R) as your other 2 starters or #2 & #4.. Wright is my swing man who is the first to fill in for an injured starter because I believe as a knuckler he'd have an easier time increasing from 1 to 2 innings of work to eventually 6 to 7 in short order. Buchholz is finally moved for prospects and Elias, Owens and Johnson becomes your 7th, 8th and 9th starters in case the injury bug hits hard. This team should be able to clinch a spot in enough time to shuffle the rotation, if even needed, at that point to put your eggs in order. Well, not a terrible idea to break them up, but keep a few things in mind: 1) Going 1,3,5 still means you've got the guys at 5 and 1 pitching on consecutive days, so you're not actually breaking them up, really. 2) You pitch your best starters first in the rotation so that they pitch most often. You can skip your worst starter if you have an off day, or at least push him back, to give more starts to your best pitchers. IMO, it's more important to get the best pitchers out there than to worry about splitting them up. 3) As stated above, the rotation doesn't matter past the first couple weeks, really. The opening day rotation was Price/Buchholz/Kelly/Porcello/Wright. By April 21, if you take Price as the number 1, it was Price/Wright/Buchholz/Owens/Porcello. Guys get hurt, skipped, pushed back, etc. 1. I'm breaking them up where it matters, placing the 2 weaker pitchers back to back which is more likely to strain the bullpen becuase they are more likely to pitch less innings. Of course you have the 5th cycling back to the top much like a lead-off hitter may only lead off once an inning. That misses the core of why I proposed what I did. 2. You can still skip a pitcher whever you want, that has no impact on my idea in any way. 3. I mentioned #3 as you appear to allude to in defense of those who might talk about ego's or match-ups. The idea is a good one and no-one has come up with a good idea against it other than it's not done that way. I know that and know it won't happen, as with all good ideas they are not accepted until someone goes out on a limb (even when there isn't any real reason to stick to the traditional way other than that's the way we've allways done it.
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Dec 14, 2016 21:34:29 GMT -5
One of my biggest fears but also hopes for the rotation in 2017 is Pomeranz. He was having a career year before slowing down but the slow down wasn't a surprise given his working out of the pen and increase in innings in 2016.
What I will be looking forward to seeing in 2017 is if his first half of 2016 wasn't a fluke and he has more endurance and strength throughout his sophomore season of starting full time.
If that happens, this rotation could be stupid good
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Dec 14, 2016 22:50:06 GMT -5
I had my fair share of idiotic predictions that didn't pan out in the last few years, but I think my boy Drew is going to have a great 2017. I very much like his stuff and being changed to the most lackadaisical from the most lackadaisical and irrelevant team in the MLB to a team in the middle of a title run can't be easy for anyone and I also think he was gassed and the catchers didn't know him very well. I really do think he's going to be very good.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Dec 15, 2016 11:47:28 GMT -5
I had my fair share of idiotic predictions that didn't pan out in the last few years, but I think my boy Drew is going to have a great 2017. I very much like his stuff and being changed to the most lackadaisical from the most lackadaisical and irrelevant team in the MLB to a team in the middle of a title run can't be easy for anyone and I also think he was gassed and the catchers didn't know him very well. I really do think he's going to be very good. Pretty exciting to think about the potential of the staff. They could all put up #1 #2 type numbers along with what could be a dominating pen. Added to an offense that could very well score more runs than anyone once again and a very good defense. Really looking forward to ST and the season starting.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Dec 15, 2016 12:57:28 GMT -5
I had my fair share of idiotic predictions that didn't pan out in the last few years, but I think my boy Drew is going to have a great 2017. I very much like his stuff and being changed to the most lackadaisical from the most lackadaisical and irrelevant team in the MLB to a team in the middle of a title run can't be easy for anyone and I also think he was gassed and the catchers didn't know him very well. I really do think he's going to be very good. From your keyboard... to God's ear.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 22, 2016 16:20:49 GMT -5
Yeah I can't see a rotation without Wright in it personally. He was arguably the best option in the rotation out of anyone they have right now when healthy. He's arguably hitting his knuckle ball pitching prime with his good fastball and improving knuckle ball each year (thanks again to the help of Wakefield).
I said this in another thread but a knuckle ball pitcher that can hit 83-90 mph on a fastball and then can change his knuckle ball to all sorts of different speeds is devastating.
I'm still all for throwing Eduardo Rodriguez in the minors next year if everyone in the rotation is healthy. The Sox would increase depth and it could open up a spot for a guy like Elias to get a long man spot out of the bullpen.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 22, 2016 22:09:56 GMT -5
Yeah I can't see a rotation without Wright in it personally. He was arguably the best option in the rotation out of anyone they have right now when healthy. He's arguably hitting his knuckle ball pitching prime with his good fastball and improving knuckle ball each year (thanks again to the help of Wakefield). I said this in another thread but a knuckle ball pitcher that can hit 83-90 mph on a fastball and then can change his knuckle ball to all sorts of different speeds is devastating. I'm still all for throwing Eduardo Rodriguez in the minors next year if everyone in the rotation is healthy. The Sox would increase depth and it could open up a spot for a guy like Elias to get a long man spot out of the bullpen. Great idea, maybe we can expand that and also send Xander and Mookie down to Pawtucket to give Marrero and Brentz a chance to see what they can do as regulars in the majors. Pretty much every signal coming out of the Sox (the Farrell interview, the BriSox leak, a DD quote) has Pomeranz and ERod in the rotation and Wright as the long/swing man where he'll also have significant value. Things can always change of course but if Pomeranz elbow is recovered, we have our rotation.
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Dec 22, 2016 22:50:50 GMT -5
Yeah I can't see a rotation without Wright in it personally. He was arguably the best option in the rotation out of anyone they have right now when healthy. He's arguably hitting his knuckle ball pitching prime with his good fastball and improving knuckle ball each year (thanks again to the help of Wakefield). I said this in another thread but a knuckle ball pitcher that can hit 83-90 mph on a fastball and then can change his knuckle ball to all sorts of different speeds is devastating. I'm still all for throwing Eduardo Rodriguez in the minors next year if everyone in the rotation is healthy. The Sox would increase depth and it could open up a spot for a guy like Elias to get a long man spot out of the bullpen. I think Rodriguez has great stuff. When he is not tipping pitches and has his control, he is just as good as any pitcher the sox have. No way do we send him to the minors. This is th one guy in the rotation with huge upside.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 23, 2016 0:15:10 GMT -5
Yeah I can't see a rotation without Wright in it personally. He was arguably the best option in the rotation out of anyone they have right now when healthy. He's arguably hitting his knuckle ball pitching prime with his good fastball and improving knuckle ball each year (thanks again to the help of Wakefield). I said this in another thread but a knuckle ball pitcher that can hit 83-90 mph on a fastball and then can change his knuckle ball to all sorts of different speeds is devastating. I'm still all for throwing Eduardo Rodriguez in the minors next year if everyone in the rotation is healthy. The Sox would increase depth and it could open up a spot for a guy like Elias to get a long man spot out of the bullpen. I think Rodriguez has great stuff. When he is not tipping pitches and has his control, he is just as good as any pitcher the sox have. No way do we send him to the minors. This is th one guy in the rotation with huge upside. The 1 guy with upside? They all have upside. Sale, Price, and Porcello have the upside of being Cy Young Award winners while Wright and Pomeranz have the upside of being all-stars. I think E-Rod has the upside to be more the latter than the former but he is hardly the one guy in the rotation with upside. He's the guy with the most room to grow if you want to be accurate.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 23, 2016 0:16:46 GMT -5
Yeah I can't see a rotation without Wright in it personally. He was arguably the best option in the rotation out of anyone they have right now when healthy. He's arguably hitting his knuckle ball pitching prime with his good fastball and improving knuckle ball each year (thanks again to the help of Wakefield). I said this in another thread but a knuckle ball pitcher that can hit 83-90 mph on a fastball and then can change his knuckle ball to all sorts of different speeds is devastating. I'm still all for throwing Eduardo Rodriguez in the minors next year if everyone in the rotation is healthy. The Sox would increase depth and it could open up a spot for a guy like Elias to get a long man spot out of the bullpen. Great idea, maybe we can expand that and also send Xander and Mookie down to Pawtucket to give Marrero and Brentz a chance to see what they can do as regulars in the majors. Pretty much every signal coming out of the Sox (the Farrell interview, the BriSox leak, a DD quote) has Pomeranz and ERod in the rotation and Wright as the long/swing man where he'll also have significant value. Things can always change of course but if Pomeranz elbow is recovered, we have our rotation. Yup, that's how I read the tea leaves. As has been pointed out if there is an injury or ineffectiveness it's a lot easier for Wright to be stretched out than for Pomeranz to be stretched out. And there's also the fact that when he got healthy last season E-Rod pitched very well. He has no business at Pawtucket at this point. Ultimately it's unlikely all five of these five guys go to the hill every fifth day, so it's quite possible that Wright comes away with 20 - 25 starts. Personally I'd prefer him as a starter and Pomeranz in the pen or dealt away for value, but I can understand why the Red Sox want to see what they have in Pomeranz and if his rough ending was a result of an injury, fatigue, or something else.
|
|
|