|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2017 19:48:24 GMT -5
It's Belichick it doesn't have to mean anything other than they want a 6th ring....
Details of Gilmore deal are out cap numbers are big but that 5th year may never be seen by him
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 10, 2017 20:23:53 GMT -5
A little excited to think that all these moves are part of a win now mentality about the next few years. Can you imagine having both Gilmore and Butler for a year? It could be affordable for 1 year then MB is gone but it would give them the best secondary in football. Then you add someone like Cooks who BB likes so much he is willing to give up that much?
All I know is that it seems like BB is getting after it during this offseason.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 10, 2017 20:45:51 GMT -5
A little excited to think that all these moves are part of a win now mentality about the next few years. Can you imagine having both Gilmore and Butler for a year? It could be affordable for 1 year then MB is gone but it would give them the best secondary in football. Then you add someone like Cooks who BB likes so much he is willing to give up that much? All I know is that it seems like BB is getting after it during this offseason. I hope they keep Butler and Hightower longterm now. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 10, 2017 20:49:57 GMT -5
Butler will likely be short term but yes to the Hightower. Keeping Butler next year would mean 26+ million for 2 CB's, Cant happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2017 20:50:43 GMT -5
There's really no reason they can't sign Butler and Gilmore. The they don't want to spend 25m of their cap on 2 corners argument is fair to ask but they don't spend those dollars on past rushers so maybe they think 2 corners is worth the space vs a corner and an end.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 10, 2017 20:52:34 GMT -5
Butler will likely be short term but yes to the Hightower. Keeping Butler next year would mean 26+ million for 2 CB's, Cant happen. Why not? It's good to load up on passing defense these days with all the good QB'S in the league. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 10, 2017 21:57:45 GMT -5
Bennett to the Packers for 3 years at 18.45 million. Good enough deal for him. Probably front loaded with the last year getting paid significantly less.
Good luck Bennett, thanks for the one gutsy year.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 0:02:13 GMT -5
Love the Cooks move, they just gave Brady the most weapons he's every had. I just love that.
Gilmore guaranteed money is 31 million not 40, 9.5 is only for injury. That's much more in line with the 28 million top corners have been getting. Allows them to move on after 3 years, not 4 or 5 years.
You never know with Bill, but him trading both his 1st and second round picks, sure does make you wonder if he thinks he's going to get some picks for Jimmy or Butler. I would keep Butler if no team offers him a deal, which is unlikely. Trade Jimmy to Brown's for a big package of picks. Everyone just keeps talking about a massive offer is coming from Brown's. So I am going to start dreaming of that. Maybe #12 and two second round picks next year. Maybe #12 and a second this year and two second rounders next year. You can't complain about that deal, it's an unreal offer considering what we just got Cooks for.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2017 0:05:54 GMT -5
Bennett to the Packers for 3 years at 18.45 million. Good enough deal for him. Probably front loaded with the last year getting paid significantly less. Good luck Bennett, thanks for the one gutsy year. Wow, I was expecting more. Allen is costing you 5 million, why not just spend the extra 1 million on Bennett? |
|
|
|
Post by thebogeyman on Mar 11, 2017 1:39:15 GMT -5
His agent made a statement, I don't think it's wrong. Why would you question what his agent said? I just don't see why his agent would lie about last time him and team had contract talks. Agents lie it's not out of realm of imagination that he could have been saying that to protect his clients rep. Which actually is why he even made the statement to begin with. They also said they had "brief" conversation a few days prior. So now we get into the semantics of what constitutes contract discussions or negotiations. He is an RFA, and they offered him a tender, so no need to negotiate. He can go negotiate with other teams and they can just match. No point in negotiating against themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 11, 2017 2:12:34 GMT -5
Bennett to the Packers for 3 years at 18.45 million. Good enough deal for him. Probably front loaded with the last year getting paid significantly less. Good luck Bennett, thanks for the one gutsy year. Wow, I was expecting more. Allen is costing you 5 million, why not just spend the extra 1 million on Bennett? I would be hard pressed to give Bennett any future deal. He's always fighting through injuries. He's probably making 8-9 million the first two years of the deal anyways. Go find the next Bennett. The Patriots made the right call. Edit- If Bennett was younger, I'd be there right with you. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 11, 2017 3:25:41 GMT -5
Just as a side note, this is exactly what the Patriots should be doing the next 3 years while Brady and BB is around, loading up.
Most likely, the Patriots will have to blow it up after that time anyways and it doesn't make sense to keep that many draft picks and develop players at this point (unless a proven top of first round talent comes for Jimmy G.). Take the proven talent and try to win as much as possible the next 3 years. You'll never see another run like the last 20 years, so minus well end it with a bang. Good on the Patriots imo.
Get Hightower and Butler signed. Go for rings 6 and 7 and become the best team in football ever when it comes to championship success.
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 11, 2017 6:13:22 GMT -5
It certainly has been a fun couple days to start FA for the Pats and the fans. Great moves all the way around have already filled in or improved the roster for next season and they still have 35 million in cap space. And that doesn't include the savings from what ever happens to Amendola.
I guess you guys are correct, they could sign Butler LT but it would mean 26+ million spent on 2 corners and about 45 million on the secondary alone, that would be close to 26% of the cap. Feasible but not sure it is likely, certainly affordable to keep Butler this year but not so sure about the future.
Love the fact Branch is coming back now get Hightower back into the fold and it would seem that most of the heavy lifting would be over.
If BB is truly going for it there is still room in the cap to add some significant players. I would think veterans around the league looking to cash in on a SB ring before retiring would now look at the Patriots as an even more likely place to go and get one. I am now pretty excited also that the Pats are going to end the Brady era with a big bang, 6 and 7 sound pretty good to me what a run!!
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 11, 2017 6:27:55 GMT -5
The Pats are going to put some serious pressure on the QB when Ealy and Flowers are out there during passing downs, combine that with the press coverage and they will be tough.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 6:33:51 GMT -5
Bennett to the Packers for 3 years at 18.45 million. Good enough deal for him. Probably front loaded with the last year getting paid significantly less. Good luck Bennett, thanks for the one gutsy year. Wow, I was expecting more. Allen is costing you 5 million, why not just spend the extra 1 million on Bennett? I agree but you know it's about timing. Pats don't sit around and wait. If Bennet had taken that deal at the onset the Allen trade probably isn't made... probably... however, Allen is still cheaper and 3 years young. He's a better blocker and not a slouch as a pass catcher so maybe they would still prefer Allen. I doubt it but it's possible. I really think it was just taking an opportunity because Bennett was asking for too much early on. Edit: Allen is 3 years younger not 4 |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 6:47:50 GMT -5
The Patriots still have 39m in cap space... that doesn't include Branchs number but it also doesn't include the savings from the inevitable Amendolare release or massive restructure so it's pretty safe to assume that number is fairly accurate. That's a lot of scratch. Now they will spend a nice chunk of that on Hightower coming back, but here's my crazy idea.
What if they go to Jimmy and say, lets rip up this last year of your deal and pay you 30m over 3 years all guaranteed. It easily fits into their cap. Maybe he says no because he wants to start somewhere but if they tell him that's not happening because they will franchise him next year regardless then maybe they work it out. I don't know. With the dearth of early picks I am now thinking they will trade him but just spit balling possibilities.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 11, 2017 6:51:09 GMT -5
I keep seeing the Gilbert versus Butler conversation happening all around the media universe. That's easy to answer really. They chose Gilbert, for now.
The real question for me is Hightower versus Butler. Keeping in mind that the Patriots is the ultimate asset management team, I can see them trading Butler (or let him sign elsewhere) and signing Hightower for just money. You get picks for Butler and still keep the same talent level on defense with the potential of getting better through the draft.
What I would do is keep Butler and let Hightower go because Butler is the more durable player but I wouldn't get upset if the Patriots went in the opposite direction with Butler like I mentioned before.
Or maybe you keep both (hopefully), but unlikely. Maybe both players take less than expected and want to stay. That would be the ideal situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 6:56:19 GMT -5
Under 10m a year isn't top of the market money and I don't know if it's fair to characterize him as a number 2... he's not an elite 1 but he's better than you are giving him credit for. Anyways, I wasn't defending the Niners signing him but the contract for him isn't bad. How good it is depends on what the money to the team is in years 3-5... if the Niners should sign him in another conversation For a #2 WR it is top of market money. It's the biggest deal for a WR this offseason. He's going to make more than Jeffrey next year. I just don't see how he's a #1 receiver, doesn't mean he isn't good, he's just a #2. When you grade a deal it has to be about the contract and team fit. A team that was a contender next year, that deal wouldn't be horrible. It's the fact he's 31 to start next year and that team is like 3 years away from doing anything. I agree completely with most of this but I want to see how the rest of the off-season shakes out. The NFL has salary floors to reach each year and San Fran had some work to get there. Plus, it's a new coach and new GM implementing a system. You need players who will buy in and help other players do the same. Garçon knows Shannahan so if he thinks he will be both a productive player and a mentor and leader in the first couple years (especially) once they get their young QB then it makes a lot more sense for them. I'd say in a rebuild the number 1 goal has to be to establish a culture and the number 2 thing is talent acquisition because you can do more with less in the NFL if the culture is right. Oddly enough, I think Hue Jackson may have done that with the Browns last year. That was the hardest playing 1 win team I've ever seen. Compare that with the Jets and it's night and day. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 7:00:45 GMT -5
I keep seeing the Gilbert versus Butler conversation happening all around the media universe. That's easy to answer really. They chose Gilbert, for now. The real question for me is Hightower versus Butler. Keeping in mind that the Patriots is the ultimate asset management team, I can see them trading Butler (or let him sign elsewhere) and signing Hightower for just money. You get picks for Butler and still keep the same talent level on defense with the potential of getting better through the draft. What I would do is keep Butler and let Hightower go because Butler is the more durable player but I wouldn't get upset if the Patriots went in the opposite direction with Butler like I mentioned before. Or maybe you keep both (hopefully), but unlikely. Maybe both players take less than expected and want to stay. That would be the ideal situation. It's Gilmore... I do think you are right that the Gilmore signing had partly to do with the ability to use Butler for more assets. But I also think they like Gilmore's size and press man capabilities more than Butlers. And I think with Hightower, they really are just letting him find his market before signing him. I'm a little surprised it's been so quiet on him. If we are talking about the team loading up then they really could use him next year pretty badly at this point. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 11, 2017 8:01:55 GMT -5
Wow, I was expecting more. Allen is costing you 5 million, why not just spend the extra 1 million on Bennett? I agree but you know it's about timing. Pats don't sit around and wait. If Bennet had taken that deal at the onset the Allen trade probably isn't made... probably... however, Allen is still cheaper and 4+ years young. He's a better blocker and not a slouch as a pass catcher so maybe they would still prefer Allen. I doubt it but it's possible. I really think it was just taking an opportunity because Bennett was asking for too much early on. The Patriots also didn't need to spend a little extra to keep Bennett. With the addition of Cooks, all the Patriots needed was a better blocking TE that could catch the occasional TD pass (which Allen can do). The fact that he's younger and cheaper is the icing on the cake for the Patriots. Plus, the Patriots can always draft a third TE in a loaded draft full of TE. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 11, 2017 8:09:39 GMT -5
The Patriots have simply just cleaned up while the rest of the league has done virtually nothing. They replaced Chris Long by giving up literally nothing at DE position. They got a TE for minimal cost. They also got a WR who has the third most receptions in NFL history through their first 3 seasons with 2 years of control left. They're not even close to done yet, which is the funny part.
The Patriots are simply the best run organization in sports, at the moment. I can't stop glowing about this team right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2017 8:22:06 GMT -5
I think the Ealy trade is both being overblown and under rated at the same time if that's possible. Or maybe the acquisition cost and players ability are confusing the situation for a lot of people.
In summary:
Ealy is a player with talent who has been extremely inconsistent over his 3 years. He had a monster Super Bowl which I like because it tells me he probably has another level to tap into which gives me high hopes here. He's also in a contract year which will give extra motivation to not take any plays off. His skill set is perfect for this team. But let's not confuse him with an elite game changing piece. He's a rotational player, but Belichick had taught us that these are the types of players that separate great teams from good ones.
The real boon here is the acquisition cost. It was basically NOTHING. It literally cost them under $400,000 in cap room and 8 spots in the draft. Are you kidding me? I'm not going to say they stole him from Carolina because if he didn't fit them then they moved up in the draft a little and carry no dead money from cutting him so that's good. But the rest of the league? Really? Cmon now... this is what separates Belichick. Most teams don't make ANY trades - as in they make zero trades - outside of the draft and Bill makes a ton of them. Hell even if you include the draft most teams just take the picks they have when they have them. It's insane how different he is from every other GM/player personnel guy in the league.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 11, 2017 8:38:31 GMT -5
I was just making the point that the Patriots let go of Chris Long and got younger and a potentially better Chris Long type in return for nothing. I wasn't trying to make it seem like they got the next stud DE or anything.
|
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Mar 11, 2017 8:48:39 GMT -5
I'd still like to see them get another edge player. They replaced Long but haven't replaced Sheard. All 4 edge guus received snaps last year.
Obviously Hightower is a priority. And Blount or a replacement is on the to-do list as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by maxwellsdemon on Mar 11, 2017 9:07:38 GMT -5
Football is the sport where the coaching/management has the biggest impact from the strategic down to the tactical level. The Patriots with Belichick have shown that you don't need the most talented roster if you have a good system and can get players who buy into it. Bum Phillips famous quote about "he can take his'n and beat your'n..." is more appropriately aimed at Belichick, who does it every year, taking cast-offs, undrafted free agents or past their prime guys and does nothing but beat your'n.
In baseball the Sox turned it around when new ownership came in, but with the exception of 2013, they had the most talented team when they made their runs and tactical decisions had a lot less impact than the level of talent (well maybe excepting 2003 - thanks Obama, er Grady).
Basketball?. Get a big 3 and your in the running, but that triangle offense didn't look so good without Jordan/Pippen or Bryant/O'Neal now did it.
Hockey? Claude Julien had a lot of success with his trap with the Devils and some with the B's - until the NHL changed the rules to open the game up. How many times has the NFL changes the rules specifically (it seems) to take away what the Pats did the year before? How's that working for them?
Soccer, I don't know anything about it, looks like aerobics with a ball thrown in for distraction, so no comment.
Football is also the sport where attrition due to injury plays the largest part so the stars and scrubs approach can be particularly problematic. Brady is great, probably the GOAT, but you can see Belichick winning with Rodgers, Marino, even Favre if they'd listen and buy in - not with Brady's longevity - but you can conceive of it very easily. THen look at what happens so often when ex-Pats go to other teams, very rarely do they achieve the same level of performance let alone success.
The only sports dynasty that comes close in terms of structure is Red Auerbach's Celtics who had their Brady in Bill Russell and a talented, but not necessarily the most talented, cast around him. How many Celt HOF players are there because they were on those teams, not the other way around? We in Boston are truly blessed to see this kind of top to bottom performance not once, but twice for those of us old enough to remember the dulcet tones of Johnny Most and the comic press conference stylings of Bill Belichick.
|
|
