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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 11:41:05 GMT -5
I love the way Gillislee runs. Was just watching some highlights. Guy is pretty quick and hits a hole hard.
Fun fact: He has the best TD conversion rate from inside the 5 the last two years (min 8 attempts). 70%
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Post by digit on Apr 20, 2017 11:52:49 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Apr 20, 2017 11:56:47 GMT -5
Lot of talk about how BB has traded (incl comp for Gillislee) away picks. True and it may stay that way. But they also have 3 of the most likely trade candidates in Butler, Jimmy G and, some feel, Lewis.
Could easily become a busy draft day.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 20, 2017 12:39:45 GMT -5
I forgot Thomas, which is like Gilmore. Your comps though just don't add up. Moss had 3 straight declining years and was traded for a 5th round pick. It worked out and became an all-time move, that doesn't make it equal to getting a young stud WR. It was a buy low on a Veteran hoping he bounced back. Your basing that off of hindsight. People at the time thought Stallworth might be the best WR they brought in. They did the same thing with Chad Johnson if you remember, only difference is that one didn't work. Players like Morris, Washington and Brady are all old Vets with no upside. The type of players they used to fill out roster with for years hoping to hit on one of them or just for depth. They just aren't in there prime young guys with upside like Allen, Burkhead, Elay, Guy and Gillislee. Only Stallworth is like that. Those guys are like Boldin, I just don't count depth only type players. A rookie free agent could have a bigger impact. Resigning older than dirt players well past their prime in Seau and Brown, and some OK players in Gay and Evans is nothing like resigning one of the top players in all of free agency. Nevermind a good DT and a young 3 rd S to starter money. Players like Gay got a one year 1.3 million deal, Evans got 2 years 1.575 million. Your trying to compare volume to volume. Sure they added a bunch of players, most of them were old Vets on there last legs. I'm shocked that even Thomas was 30, compared to a 26 year old Gilmore. 30 year old Moss to a 23 year old Cooks. That's what makes this year so special and different. In 2007 you had what two in there prime type players in Welker and Stallworth, along with 30 year old Thomas and Moss. Then a bunch of old players. This year the only older player is Branch. Your looking at buy low and hope type moves on older Vets to getting young ready to breakout type players. This is mostly selective memory on your part. Morris was 30, Washington was 28, and they were both much more comparable to Allen and Burkhead than to Brandon Bolden. The guys they signed in 2007 might have been older in the aggregate, but they were also much move proven players. Let's not pretend guys like Allen or Burkhead or Ealy are in-their-prime studs. They're younger, but they're also all fairly characterized as buy-low types for one reason or another. No Morris is like bringing back an older RB like Blount. 30 years old is getting up there for a RB, he what played 4 games and was injured for rest of the year. Washington was 28 but did almost nothing, he's just like a Bolden a depth move, nothing more. Where they more proven absolutely, but they were well past there prime part time players or depth players mostly. You weren't getting close to prime Seau or Brown, there days of playing anywhere near there peak was long gone. I don't think we got a ton of studs, but they are young in their prime players with upside. For example Burkhead and Gillislee were rated as the top two most efficient backs last year. Gillislee lead the league is YPC last year. Those guys could become studs next year. They like them so much they are talking about trading Lewis. Ealy is a young pass rusher that has had huge games, but been been inconsistent and on a deep team. He has elite skills and I fully expect Bill to coach him up. I think he surprises people next year and has a big year. Allen has dealt with some injuries, but is in his prime and reminds me of Daniel Graham. Not the best receiver, but a great blocking TE that can make plays in passing game. He's not a 35 year old Kyle Brady! I will take youth and upside over old and proven any day in NFL, well unless your Tom Brady. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 12:45:26 GMT -5
I haven't seen any report about trading Lewis that wasn't pure media speculation. Maybe you have and if so please share; not doubting curios
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 20, 2017 12:47:51 GMT -5
Nothing is an even comparison - situations are fluid. The biggest mistake you're making, in my opinion, is ignoring the fact that Belichick is always evolving so things aren't the same. It's part of his genius. By definition is something is changing then it's not the same. If you want to say Belichick has had an offseason where he hasn't been efficient and used market inefficiencies to his advantage or that he's put the next few years in jeopardy. I'm not ignoring anything. Thing is by saying what your saying they could never go all in, because it's just Belichick evolving in your eyes. That's 100% wrong and that's the mistake your making. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 20, 2017 12:52:46 GMT -5
That's what the "some feel" comment was intended to handle. NO rumors but he's a pending FA whose injury history may halt extension talks and they've loaded up on RBs (plus a deep draft at the position).
That makes him a pretty good candidate in my book but, bc that's all feel (by me and others) I made his inclusion on the list different than the others.
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Post by digit on Apr 20, 2017 13:18:12 GMT -5
That's what the "some feel" comment was intended to handle. NO rumors but he's a pending FA whose injury history may halt extension talks and they've loaded up on RBs (plus a deep draft at the position). That makes him a pretty good candidate in my book but, bc that's all feel (by me and others) I made his inclusion on the list different than the others. The same injury history that makes him questionable about extension would surely also make him questionable about trading him for picks, wouldn't it? I doubt you can get much for him at this point and he might be worth more to the Patriots than whatever he brings back. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 14:20:49 GMT -5
Nothing is an even comparison - situations are fluid. The biggest mistake you're making, in my opinion, is ignoring the fact that Belichick is always evolving so things aren't the same. It's part of his genius. By definition is something is changing then it's not the same. If you want to say Belichick has had an offseason where he hasn't been efficient and used market inefficiencies to his advantage or that he's put the next few years in jeopardy. I'm not ignoring anything. Thing is by saying what your saying they could never go all in, because it's just Belichick evolving in your eyes. That's 100% wrong and that's the mistake your making. Belichick going all in would be out of character not to mention he'd actually have to go all in for it to be all in. Perhaps we have a different idea of what "all-in" means. Maybe you just think trying really hard to have a great team equals all in and I don't. I think he's doing a hell of a job this offseason. We are probably squabbling over semantics at this point. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 20, 2017 14:23:44 GMT -5
An agent when asked what do you think Burkhead does in New England said 70 catches and 400 yards rushing. If that's how they use Burkhead, along with White than it makes sense to move Lewis. You could bring in another big RB as this draft is loaded with them. Your not going to get a ton for him, maybe a 5th or 6th round pick. Maybe you can swap picks and move up in a round. Thing is it would help balance the roster and gives you a player under contract for next 4 years.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 14:26:42 GMT -5
I never said trading Lewis doesn't make sense. My only contention was with the claim "they (the Patriots) are talking about moving (him)." I've never seen those reports.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 20, 2017 14:41:38 GMT -5
I never said trading Lewis doesn't make sense. My only contention was with the claim "they (the Patriots) are talking about moving (him)." I've never seen those reports. The implied quote was "some feel Lewis is a trade candidate", not "the Patriots are talking about moving him". |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 14:47:14 GMT -5
I never said trading Lewis doesn't make sense. My only contention was with the claim "they (the Patriots) are talking about moving (him)." I've never seen those reports. The implied quote was "some feel Lewis is a trade candidate", not "the Patriots are talking about moving him". I was referring to UMass post where he said "they love them so much they are talking about trading Lewis" |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 20, 2017 18:13:56 GMT -5
That's my bad on Lewis I quickly read Texas two post on trading Lewis and just thought there were reports on it. Turns out it was just an opinion. It does make a ton of sense though.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 20, 2017 18:16:32 GMT -5
Sorry if I wasn't clear. Definitely more a connecting of dots than a rumor or report.
And, no, you're probably not getting much but someone could still take a flier for a lower pick or part of a package.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 18:41:24 GMT -5
I've been mentally preparing myself for the Butler trade so I'm not really mad when it happens.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 20, 2017 18:52:03 GMT -5
At best, he's here 1 more year so, yeah, I've righted myself with it. Might as well get something for him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 20, 2017 18:54:04 GMT -5
At best, he's here 1 more year so, yeah, I've righted myself with it. Might as well get something for him. I'll take one year of service and a complimentary pick over whatever they'd get back this year. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 20, 2017 21:51:13 GMT -5
At best, he's here 1 more year so, yeah, I've righted myself with it. Might as well get something for him. I'll take one year of service and a complimentary pick over whatever they'd get back this year. Yeah I love Dion Lewis myself (he's my favorite player on offense), but I do realize his extensive injury history. It would depend on the return. I don't see teams lining up to make a good enough trade to pry him away with one year of control left. It's just like with the Celtics and the Isaah contract this off-season. I don't see teams lining up to give up a good enough pick or player to get Isaah on a one year deal, so the Celtics minus well keep him and develop their next potential PG of the future while being behind Isaah on the depth chart for a year. The good thing about Lewis is that he has a ton of guys in the RB core if Gillislee comes here. This offense is so loaded. So much depth, it's incredible. I've never seen so much talent on offense and so many different great role players at each respective position on offense. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 20, 2017 23:08:04 GMT -5
The talent level is crazy on offense. That's why they shouldn't trade Butler. This team could destroy people next year, let's not create a potential hole when we don't have to do it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 21, 2017 4:58:54 GMT -5
The talent level is crazy on offense. That's why they shouldn't trade Butler. This team could destroy people next year, let's not create a potential hole when we don't have to do it. Whatever Bill thinks is best. They're getting to the championship game either way. Keeping Butler only either increases their shot to get to yet another Superbowl. There is a part of me that would love to see Brady and BB take a dump on the league and gets a second dynasty in the free agency era. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 21, 2017 6:44:31 GMT -5
I'll take one year of service and a complimentary pick over whatever they'd get back this year. Yeah I love Dion Lewis myself (he's my favorite player on offense), but I do realize his extensive injury history. It would depend on the return. I don't see teams lining up to make a good enough trade to pry him away with one year of control left. It's just like with the Celtics and the Isaah contract this off-season. I don't see teams lining up to give up a good enough pick or player to get Isaah on a one year deal, so the Celtics minus well keep him and develop their next potential PG of the future while being behind Isaah on the depth chart for a year. The good thing about Lewis is that he has a ton of guys in the RB core if Gillislee comes here. This offense is so loaded. So much depth, it's incredible. I've never seen so much talent on offense and so many different great role players at each respective position on offense. I was talking Butler not Lewis but I would keep Lewis because he would only get you back a 5th or something and he's a good kick returner in addition to being dangerous out of the backfield with the right matchups |
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Post by costpet on Apr 23, 2017 7:39:18 GMT -5
With regard to Jimmy G. I think BB is right not to trade him for anything. Look what happened to Oakland last year when Carr went down. Their season was over. Brady could go down at any time and all this work acquiring other positions would be for nothing. So, Jimmy stays. I'm not sure about Butler. Maybe BB doesn't like him. Why, I don't know. I hope they keep him and just take the best available in the 3rd round. The team is pretty well set for this year. There's no rookie on the board that would take them to the "promised land". They've got all the pieces for that already. Use the draft to develop guys for later years. There'll be plenty of good players in the later rounds as well as free agents. They have a good scouting department and will find a few gems. So, relax on the lack of high draft picks. They don't need them.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 23, 2017 7:43:39 GMT -5
I doubt BB has any issue with Butler personally - I'm not going to speculate on the situation as there are too many variables but I doubt it has to do with Bill not liking Butler personally.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 23, 2017 12:44:28 GMT -5
According to Pete Prisco the Pats would deal Jimmy to the Browns for 12 this year and a second next year. Prisco is kind of a donkey tho so take that for what it's worth.
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