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What to do about Pablo? (7/14 edit: DFAed)
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 6, 2017 22:03:59 GMT -5
Well, technically for something like $45.5M ($3M signing bonus + 2.5 years of salary). And technically the deal will be for $100M when they pay the $5M buyout instead of picking up his option. Anyway, I only point out the former because that's actually what they've paid, which somehow, to me at least, makes it even worse. Yeah, I was pretty much going by the fact that it will be close to impossible to get any team to pay any amount of that contract. Totally a sunk cost at this point. Maybe the worst contract ever, including Vernon Wells. Ryan Howard's was worse, but that's the only one I'm certain of: $125 million for -4.5 bWAR. But, at least Howard's came after he was a key part of a championship-level team for many years so it's understandable there would've been a soft spot there. There were a lot of red flags with Sandoval and the Red Sox had no reason to feel like they needed to blow up the market there. Just an all-out insane move.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 6, 2017 23:56:53 GMT -5
All true. It was difficult to understand at the time, and it's impossible now. It's only played out in the worst way. This board had members pointing to the trends and his age. At 28, the concern was that his best years - adequate to be generous - were behind him.
Hard to argue with any of that logic now. I find myself wondering who was involved in that decision, and how it played into Cherington's removal from the GM job. Water under the bridge, but the ramifications are going to play out for a while. The fact that he's owed $37 million through his age 32 season is bad juju that will likely cost them even more as they seek to re-sign the kids, and as they inventory the free-agent market.
The numbers don't lie, they didn't back then. Somebody read them terribly wrong.
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gerry
Veteran
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Posts: 1,673
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Post by gerry on Jul 7, 2017 0:54:53 GMT -5
All true. It was difficult to understand at the time, and it's impossible now. It's only played out in the worst way. This board had members pointing to the trends and his age. At 28, the concern was that his best years - adequate to be generous - were behind him. Hard to argue with any of that logic now. I find myself wondering who was involved in that decision, and how it played into Cherington's removal from the GM job. Water under the bridge, but the ramifications are going to play out for a while. The fact that he's owed $37 million through his age 32 season is bad juju that will likely cost them even more as they seek to re-sign the kids, and as they inventory the free-agent market. The numbers don't lie, they didn't back then. Somebody read them terribly wrong. I remember lots of discussion around the time of his signing that Larry Luchino was a major mover to get him. Might have all been conjecture, but it wouldn't have been his first time.
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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Jul 7, 2017 2:04:35 GMT -5
All true. It was difficult to understand at the time, and it's impossible now. It's only played out in the worst way. This board had members pointing to the trends and his age. At 28, the concern was that his best years - adequate to be generous - were behind him. Hard to argue with any of that logic now. I find myself wondering who was involved in that decision, and how it played into Cherington's removal from the GM job. Water under the bridge, but the ramifications are going to play out for a while. The fact that he's owed $37 million through his age 32 season is bad juju that will likely cost them even more as they seek to re-sign the kids, and as they inventory the free-agent market. The numbers don't lie, they didn't back then. Somebody read them terribly wrong. This might sound INSANE to you but!!! He was extremely clutch in San Fran. Multiple times in the post season and he honestly reminded me a lot of Ortiz so I think the Sox were thinking that he could DH because when they signed him Ortiz came off the worst year of his career i think so they were already looking to replace him. We don't need to talk about how bad that turned out. Sometime i watch YouTube videos of him in San Fran and I'm like WTF happened. Ortiz was fat as **** and could still hammer the ball so Pablo has no excuse.
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 9:51:14 GMT -5
I moved the Castillo line of discussion to its own thread.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 11, 2017 11:01:08 GMT -5
Any chance SF is interested in re-acquiring Pablo? They're having a dreadful season. Maybe, their pink hats will be glad to see him back. We pay all of his 18 and 19 salary. They pick his salary up for the rest of this year. I believe Pittsburgh acquired someone in a deal like that a few years ago. Would give us a little flexibility at the deadline.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 11, 2017 11:19:46 GMT -5
Any chance SF is interested in re-acquiring Pablo? . None. Less than none. I'm more likely to play a game at third base for the San Francisco Giants in the future than Sandoval is. Every ex-Giants third baseman is more likely to have a reunion with the Giants, even the ones who have been dead for over 100 years.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 11, 2017 12:32:13 GMT -5
Any chance SF is interested in re-acquiring Pablo? . None. Less than none. I'm more likely to play a game at third base for the San Francisco Giants in the future than Sandoval is. Every ex-Giants third baseman is more likely to have a reunion with the Giants, even the ones who have been dead for over 100 years. He'll probably retire after the Red Sox release him. Then he can eat as much as he wants.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 11, 2017 13:27:29 GMT -5
I have wondered, what do the Sox do with this guy when his rehab assignment is up July 16/17th?
Any guesses?
I would say they DFA him but the Sox have refused to do so at this point. Like others have pointed out, I'd be insulted if Pablo takes a roster spot over Lin at this point.
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Post by station13 on Jul 11, 2017 13:51:15 GMT -5
They sat Pablo for Shaw, Pablo will sit again.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 11, 2017 14:06:17 GMT -5
They sat Pablo for Shaw, Pablo will sit again. The Sox need to actually make a roster move by then. I'm not sure they can just make up another injury and keep him in Pawtucket for forever. I'm very interested to see how the Sox try to hide Pablo here with a official move.
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Post by station13 on Jul 11, 2017 14:11:43 GMT -5
They sat Pablo for Shaw, Pablo will sit again. The Sox need to actually make a roster move by then. I'm not sure they can just make up another injury and keep him in Pawtucket for forever. I'm very interested to see how the Sox try to hide Pablo here with a official move. He has play ball, they can invent a pink eye or something for him.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 11, 2017 14:45:05 GMT -5
I have wondered, what do the Sox do with this guy when his rehab assignment is up July 16/17th? Any guesses? I would say they DFA him but the Sox have refused to do so at this point. Like others have pointed out, I'd be insulted if Pablo takes a roster spot over Lin at this point. He'll "pull a hammy" sometime this week.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 11, 2017 15:11:36 GMT -5
What's the point of faking yet another injury though? I think the point of this was to get him 20 days of playing every day (or at least 17 because of the break) so they could evaluate. If you still don't think he's worth keeping on your major league roster, it probably is time to cut him loose.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 11, 2017 16:02:11 GMT -5
What's the point of faking yet another injury though? I think the point of this was to get him 20 days of playing every day (or at least 17 because of the break) so they could evaluate. If you still don't think he's worth keeping on your major league roster, it probably is time to cut him loose. I'm not sure why he got his 'ear infection' either. I also think his shoulder thing last year was something that he had been putting off for awhile and it was just a convenient time to go out for the season, saving him the embarrassment. I'm not sure why they're so hesitant to just cut ties, but they haven't so far.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 11, 2017 17:12:39 GMT -5
Posters are reminded that posts suggesting violence against players won't be tolerated.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 11, 2017 17:19:20 GMT -5
What's the point of faking yet another injury though? I think the point of this was to get him 20 days of playing every day (or at least 17 because of the break) so they could evaluate. If you still don't think he's worth keeping on your major league roster, it probably is time to cut him loose. I'm not sure why he got his 'ear infection' either. I also think his shoulder thing last year was something that he had been putting off for awhile and it was just a convenient time to go out for the season, saving him the embarrassment. I'm not sure why they're so hesitant to just cut ties, but they haven't so far. They've been hesitant because they're paying him no matter what and he's been a quality starting 3B as recently as 2014. The further we get from that point, then the less that matters and the more his salary becomes a sunk cost. As for the "convenience" shoulder injury, while it's something that developed over time, you don't just tell a guy "eh, maybe we should have you get your labrum operated on to save you embarassment," especially when you're paying the guy $17 million to rehab it for a year. Or if you're saying that he was the one that did that, you don't just decide to have your shoulder operated on because you suddenly suck. PeteAbe wrote about the timeline at www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/05/04/pablo-sandoval-has-season-ending-shoulder-surgery/O0wHaIdiQvi4zEX6piMTjN/story.html. The first time he went to Andrews, the shoulder was too inflamed to diagnose the injury.
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Jul 11, 2017 19:56:49 GMT -5
He apparently has no trade value. His talent level isn't sufficient to ward off career minor leaguers. Compounding the mistake of initially signing him with the mistake of keeping that failure only adds to the misery. Cut ties, play the kids, and let his release show players there's nothing guaranteed if you can't produce.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 11, 2017 21:18:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure why he got his 'ear infection' either. I also think his shoulder thing last year was something that he had been putting off for awhile and it was just a convenient time to go out for the season, saving him the embarrassment. I'm not sure why they're so hesitant to just cut ties, but they haven't so far. They've been hesitant because they're paying him no matter what and he's been a quality starting 3B as recently as 2014. The further we get from that point, then the less that matters and the more his salary becomes a sunk cost. As for the "convenience" shoulder injury, while it's something that developed over time, you don't just tell a guy "eh, maybe we should have you get your labrum operated on to save you embarassment," especially when you're paying the guy $17 million to rehab it for a year. Or if you're saying that he was the one that did that, you don't just decide to have your shoulder operated on because you suddenly suck. PeteAbe wrote about the timeline at www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/05/04/pablo-sandoval-has-season-ending-shoulder-surgery/O0wHaIdiQvi4zEX6piMTjN/story.html. The first time he went to Andrews, the shoulder was too inflamed to diagnose the injury. That's why I am really interested to see what the Sox do here. If they promote Pablo and send down one of Marrero or Lin in his place, there could be a huge uproar from the fans about it, including myself. I personally think the reason why he is still here is because ownership doesn't want to cut costs yet. If it were up to Dombrowski and Farrell especially, he'd be gone tomorrow.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jul 12, 2017 1:04:34 GMT -5
The end result is almost certainly going to be DFA, it's just a matter of when. They may give him one more shot at the big league level, if only because the guys they've been trotting out there, though they've put together decent results, shouldn't really be expected given who they are and what they've done professionally. That and the club probably wants to give one final chance to the $17M man.
The entire situation is really just trying to bridge the gap to Devers and having some insurance so that you're not forced to throw a 20-year-old out there every day right out of the gate. Getting Holt back would certainly help, as would Lin or Marrero somehow keeping something up through this season and into '18
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 12, 2017 7:07:05 GMT -5
Pablo still isn't hitting at all in AAA and we know his defense will suck from now on. If they bring him up again, it's a stupid move. There are no more chances to give when the team is 3.5 games up in first place.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 12, 2017 7:30:04 GMT -5
Pablo still isn't hitting at all in AAA The line is based on such a SSS though - you really need to go by first-hand looks at him. Consider that after the game on 7/5 he was at .306/.324/.389, then went 2 for 16 in the last four games before the break on a .167 BABIP to give him his current .250/.278/.308 on this "rehab assignment." For all we know he could have looked terrible the whole time, even when he was hitting, or he looked good and was getting robbed at the end. I'm sure they had at least one person watching Pawtucket this entire time and likely multiple evaluators coming in and out to look at Sandoval and Peralta, and will be moving forward based on those reports.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 12, 2017 7:49:13 GMT -5
Pablo still isn't hitting at all in AAA The line is based on such a SSS though - you really need to go by first-hand looks at him. Consider that after the game on 7/5 he was at .306/.324/.389, then went 2 for 16 in the last four games before the break on a .167 BABIP to give him his current .250/.278/.308 on this "rehab assignment." For all we know he could have looked terrible the whole time, even when he was hitting, or he looked good and was getting robbed at the end. I'm sure they had at least one person watching Pawtucket this entire time and likely multiple evaluators coming in and out to look at Sandoval and Peralta, and will be moving forward based on those reports. You're right. I'm just stating what I'm guessing to be true, not for sure what happened. With such a small ISO though, he's probably not hitting the ball hard. In 41 PA in July, he has 1 XBH and 1 walk. Given that he hasn't even been worthy of a roster spot for the last 3 years, let alone the money he's making, I'm pretty confident in my guess.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 12, 2017 10:17:03 GMT -5
He apparently has no trade value. His talent level isn't sufficient to ward off career minor leaguers. Compounding the mistake of initially signing him with the mistake of keeping that failure only adds to the misery. Cut ties, play the kids, and let his release show players there's nothing guaranteed if you can't produce. Only $100 million.......I know what you're saying though.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 12, 2017 12:19:34 GMT -5
He apparently has no trade value. His talent level isn't sufficient to ward off career minor leaguers. Compounding the mistake of initially signing him with the mistake of keeping that failure only adds to the misery. Cut ties, play the kids, and let his release show players there's nothing guaranteed if you can't produce. Marrero has a major league glove, while Lin has that and may have the bat to go with it, though we hardly have enough information to go on at this point. So that's a bit of a stretch. I get the point your trying to make but realism, please.
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