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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2017 6:49:50 GMT -5
Brown is going to be a work in progress; he's only 19. Certain parts of his game haven't advanced as much as we'd like but others have probably advanced faster so while we can be excited we do need to temper those expectations. His three point shooting is so much better than advertised. He shot around 37% the last part of the season. The other part of his game that jumped a lot last year was his finishing in traffic. Early on he struggled to keep his composure off of contact and by the end he was beautifully taking it and "hanging in the air" and smoothly finishing. He got called for a lot of offensive fouls that were inexperience based - both his own fault and refs making calls they wouldn't normally.
Those are just a couple things - his overall game awareness should Improve with time as well
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2017 6:51:49 GMT -5
Tatum.... I feel people are ultimately going to get disappointed by him this year because expectations are out of whack and he has a lot of things to work with. Will be very interesting to see how he adjusts to the motion offense. I think he will - he's very smart but it will take some time.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 2, 2017 7:24:19 GMT -5
I think that the Celtic's will struggle some coming out of the gate. LOTS of new faces. Defensive sets will take a while to come together. But, I am with Pedro I am very excited to watch this team this year. They will score lots more than last year. Kyrie and Hayward are the two top scoring options and I would expect to see both at or around 20 per game. Horford will also get his points, not sure how many. Morris I am not sure where he fits yet. Brown and Tatum have HUGE potential. I agree with rip that both of these guys we have to temper our excitement some. Semi has the potential to be a diamond in the rough. Rozier will backup kyrie and Smart will fit into the mix depending on matchup's and how well his scoring is that night. The couple of bigs we have will play depending on the team we play that night. BUT, lots to look forward to this year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 2, 2017 8:42:36 GMT -5
Tatum.... I feel people are ultimately going to get disappointed by him this year because expectations are out of whack and he has a lot of things to work with. Will be very interesting to see how he adjusts to the motion offense. I think he will - he's very smart but it will take some time. He'll be up and down all season. He needs to build more strength, some of these forwards will just take him to the rim at ease at times this year. Still, I'm expecting a way better rookie year than what Brown gave the Celtics last year. |
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 2, 2017 9:30:06 GMT -5
Tatum.... I feel people are ultimately going to get disappointed by him this year because expectations are out of whack and he has a lot of things to work with. Will be very interesting to see how he adjusts to the motion offense. I think he will - he's very smart but it will take some time. He'll be up and down all season. He needs to build more strength, some of these forwards will just take him to the rim at ease at times this year. Still, I'm expecting a way better rookie year than what Brown gave the Celtics last year. Definitely agree with that. Tatum's offensive game should allow him to have a much better year than Brown. Like the new picture. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2017 9:58:55 GMT -5
Tatum.... I feel people are ultimately going to get disappointed by him this year because expectations are out of whack and he has a lot of things to work with. Will be very interesting to see how he adjusts to the motion offense. I think he will - he's very smart but it will take some time. He'll be up and down all season. He needs to build more strength, some of these forwards will just take him to the rim at ease at times this year. Still, I'm expecting a way better rookie year than what Brown gave the Celtics last year. Way better? That's asking a lot. Of course it's a subjective statement but still asking a lot. Brown had a good rookie year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2017 10:01:39 GMT -5
I expect Kyrie at at least 25 per game.... 20 is too low... Hayward should be 23+ as well. Horford will likely be under 15.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 2, 2017 12:07:52 GMT -5
He'll be up and down all season. He needs to build more strength, some of these forwards will just take him to the rim at ease at times this year. Still, I'm expecting a way better rookie year than what Brown gave the Celtics last year. Way better? That's asking a lot. Of course it's a subjective statement but still asking a lot. Brown had a good rookie year. Better in terms of scoring. Brown wasn't awful, I just think Tatum is the better overall player in general for the most part. I think Tatum can average over 10 points a game with around 5 rebounds a game on average this year, which would of been better than Brown was last year. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 2, 2017 12:09:10 GMT -5
He'll be up and down all season. He needs to build more strength, some of these forwards will just take him to the rim at ease at times this year. Still, I'm expecting a way better rookie year than what Brown gave the Celtics last year. Definitely agree with that. Tatum's offensive game should allow him to have a much better year than Brown. Like the new picture. Thanks bud. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2017 12:36:27 GMT -5
That's not a dig at Smart. Rozier is a great athlete. In the playoffs last year he started to show you his upside. When it comes to scoring, Rozier can do things Smart just can't. Smart is much better at running the team and other things, but not scoring when compared to Rozier. Rozier has shown us his promise the last 2 post seasons. He's still young so there's hope for him but I definitely would have liked to see more improvement in regular seasons. He's been part of a logjam tho so maybe he gets an opportunity he didn't have in years past. I don't understand that line of thinking. From year 1 to year 2 he improved by a mile. In his first year only Bradley's injury gave him playing time in playoffs. That improved play in playoffs carried over to this year. If he can do the same thing next year he will surprise people. This year he improved on just about everything. He earned playing time in playoffs this year. He hasn't had many minutes due to a very talented and deep roster. He didn't get a full year of big minutes on a rebuilding team like Smart did. Smart played more minutes his first year than Rozier has in two years for example. I like Rozier shot, it looks really good. Much better than the numbers seem to show. He takes some very tough shots. One thing he does need to improve on is his finishing. Even in the playoffs, he would make an awesome move and then miss an easy shot or layup. That drove me crazy. His ability to make those moves though is what has be excited. Compared to Smart he can get good looks at the basket. In a way he reminds me of Rondo. Rondo struggled finishing after getting good looks his first couple of years. He then improved greatly untill his FT shooting problems made him less aggressive. He might seem small, but he has a big wingspan and is a great athlete. I'm surprised a lot of you aren't higher on him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2017 12:38:50 GMT -5
Again ranking of what I want to watch, not a player ranking. I've seen a bunch of Hayward, I'm more excited to watch Tatum. I haven't seen enough of him though to know if he can play SG for major minutes. Per Basketball Refrence the last 4 years he played 2%, 0%, 12% and 0% at SG. His high was 27% 5 years ago. Offense won't be the issue, it will be defensively if there is an issue. We'll see, it will be very interesting as there are a bunch of different combinations that Steven's could use. Are you talking about Tatum or Hayward? Is that a joke? 😁 I was talking about Hayward, we don't have 5 years of data on Tatum. Basketball Refrence doesn't track high school games. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2017 12:46:08 GMT -5
He'll be up and down all season. He needs to build more strength, some of these forwards will just take him to the rim at ease at times this year. Still, I'm expecting a way better rookie year than what Brown gave the Celtics last year. Definitely agree with that. Tatum's offensive game should allow him to have a much better year than Brown. Like the new picture. Tatum is a lot more polished player. His offense is way better, his rebounding and he got more steals and blocks than Brown in College. In the summer league he clearly looked better than Brown, even though Brown had just played a year in NBA. I agree 100%. Pedro I also love the new pic. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2017 13:16:20 GMT -5
Did Brown have a good rookie season? Sure it was ok, but the bar isn't that high for Tatum to be better. Overall Brown was about what we expected, with one big difference his 3 point shooting. Thing is his shooting numbers overall were not good outside of 3 point shooting . So I still have questions about his shot. Just look at Smart his first year his shot seemed better than expected. The summer league showed Brown's shot has a long way to go. For me there is a big difference in being able to hit easy shots and being able to make hard shots. It's like comparing Thomas to Butler and using only 3 point field goal %. It doesn't even come close to telling the full story. Thomas is an elite 3 point shooter and Butler isn't that good. Butler is smart enough to know this and plays within his limits.
Brown overall didn't show me the rebounds, steals and blocks an athlete like him should have. I wasn't impressed with his driving because that was his calling card. I expected him to be great at that. I think some high light games and dunks make people think he was better than he was. His advanced numbers weren't good. People are dreaming on his upside, not what he was last year. He does have great upside, but a long way to go. Look at the summer league. That monster game was mixed in with a bunch of so so games. That was basically his rookie season in a nutshell.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 3, 2017 3:51:41 GMT -5
Definitely agree with that. Tatum's offensive game should allow him to have a much better year than Brown. Like the new picture. Tatum is a lot more polished player. His offense is way better, his rebounding and he got more steals and blocks than Brown in College. In the summer league he clearly looked better than Brown, even though Brown had just played a year in NBA. I agree 100%. Pedro I also love the new pic. Thanks bud. |
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 3, 2017 3:54:00 GMT -5
I expect Kyrie at at least 25 per game.... 20 is too low... Hayward should be 23+ as well. Horford will likely be under 15. Seems a little top heavy to me, especially in Brad's system. I see both of them getting most of the shots in the crunch time of the games, but not necessarily thru out the whole game. |
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 3, 2017 8:04:23 GMT -5
Did Brown have a good rookie season? Sure it was ok, but the bar isn't that high for Tatum to be better. Overall Brown was about what we expected, with one big difference his 3 point shooting. Thing is his shooting numbers overall were not good outside of 3 point shooting . So I still have questions about his shot. Just look at Smart his first year his shot seemed better than expected. The summer league showed Brown's shot has a long way to go. For me there is a big difference in being able to hit easy shots and being able to make hard shots. It's like comparing Thomas to Butler and using only 3 point field goal %. It doesn't even come close to telling the full story. Thomas is an elite 3 point shooter and Butler isn't that good. Butler is smart enough to know this and plays within his limits. Brown overall didn't show me the rebounds, steals and blocks an athlete like him should have. I wasn't impressed with his driving because that was his calling card. I expected him to be great at that. I think some high light games and dunks make people think he was better than he was. His advanced numbers weren't good. People are dreaming on his upside, not what he was last year. He does have great upside, but a long way to go. Look at the summer league. That monster game was mixed in with a bunch of so so games. That was basically his rookie season in a nutshell. I totally agree with he does have great upside, BUT has a long way to go to live up to the hype we have shown him. Not sure yet whether he is prospect or suspect. His skill set has to translate to the game. Not sure where his basketball IQ is as well. tatum would not surprise me if he gets more minutes than Brown. |
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Sept 3, 2017 10:16:10 GMT -5
Brown is going to be a work in progress; he's only 19. Certain parts of his game haven't advanced as much as we'd like but others have probably advanced faster so while we can be excited we do need to temper those expectations. His three point shooting is so much better than advertised. He shot around 37% the last part of the season. The other part of his game that jumped a lot last year was his finishing in traffic. Early on he struggled to keep his composure off of contact and by the end he was beautifully taking it and "hanging in the air" and smoothly finishing. He got called for a lot of offensive fouls that were inexperience based - both his own fault and refs making calls they wouldn't normally. Those are just a couple things - his overall game awareness should Improve with time as well One of the things i hate about the NBA or any league is certain players, mainly rookies or stars, being called differently because of their current stature. That is bush league and anything but professional. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 3, 2017 21:16:04 GMT -5
Rozier is not a SG. It'll be either Jaylen or Smart - preferably Jaylen so Smart can continue subbing for multiple positions. Why not? He played SG 27% of the time last year. He is more of a scorer than Smart and a better shooter. ...which means he played not SG 73% of the time. #maths He's a versatile player who can play stretches at the 2. That doesn't make him a SG. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 4, 2017 11:22:32 GMT -5
Why not? He played SG 27% of the time last year. He is more of a scorer than Smart and a better shooter. ...which means he played not SG 73% of the time. #maths He's a versatile player who can play stretches at the 2. That doesn't make him a SG. You should go look up Browns playing time numbers at SG. He has very little run at SG. Yet you think him or Smart play there. Scouting reports have called Rozier a combo guard. He has played more SG by a huge margin than Brown has. Brown spent way more time last year playing SF and PF than SG. #math #SMH The only thing that makes a player be able to play a certain position is does he have the skills needed to play that position. So what skills do Brown and Smart have that Rozier doesn't ? By all accounts Brown isn't a SG. He is a prototypical SF. They are only looking at playing him there to get him minutes because of the log jam at SF and the lack of guards. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 4, 2017 20:00:43 GMT -5
He started at SG when Bradley was out, and the Celtics are focused on going to their positionless lineup as much as possible. Brown left s you do that more than Rozier.
I like Rozier, but he ain't going to be starting.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 5, 2017 13:36:59 GMT -5
You can debate who the starter will be. I'm sure Brown has the inside track. He could be a weapon if he makes that huge jump some players do in second year. You talk about positionless basketball after two post of saying Rozier isn't a SG. This is the team that ran a lot of 3 guard lineups last year. For Steven's positionless means positionless based on matchup. So I don't see how Brown at SG makes you more positionless. Can he guard PGs? Last year our SGs guarded the best guard on the other team to hide Thomas. While Irving might be better, I expect much of the same from our SGs this year. Brown has the athletic ability to become that type of defender, but he wasn't even close to that last year. He would make some big plays, but overall he hasn't even come close to unlocking his true defensive ability. He has the tools to become a Tony Allen type player, but currently isn't half the defender Allen was in his prime. Nevermind on offense Brown can't run the point, heck you wouldn't even want him bringing the ball up the court. He also currently isn't a good passer.
Brown might be our starting SG, because he develops into the best player. I don't think it's because he allows you to play positionless basketball better. Right now Smart is clearly the guy that allows you to play the best positionless basketball. The current NBA is all about small ball and ton of teams are going small and running 3 guard lineups. Smart and Rozier are both very good defender that can guard PGs and SGs. Heck Smart can guard SFs. They can both also play PG and SG on offense. That's positionless basketball. Brown at SF allows you to play positionless basketball better. As he can switch between PF, SF and SG. Him playing SG, does the exact opposite in my opinion as he can't play PG.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 6, 2017 12:48:38 GMT -5
www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20595342/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-guard-isaiah-thomas-faces-uncertain-return-potentially-career-ending-hip-injuryVery interesting article on Isaiah's hip. Paints a compelling story and provides a pretty clear reason for the Celts to be hesitant to back up the Brinks truck. The logic of the trade follows pretty clearly from there (can't lose someone like him for nothing, capped out next year, etc.) It sucks most for IT. He is coming off a historically great season, get sent abruptly from a place that became home, might be slowed for this year and might never get his big contract. Rooting for him no matter what. IT also posted on The Player's Tribune. Probably also got made East Coast Webmaster or something.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 7, 2017 10:18:49 GMT -5
Interestingly, Marcus Morris was a considerably better defender than Jae Crowder both at the 3 and at the 4 last season. He was terrible offensively, but pretty solid on defense (according to 82games ratings). This gets lost a bit in the evaluation of the C's off-season, but considering it and the fact that Hayward was also a significantly better defender than Bradley, there's a good chance the Celtics heavily improved their defense in the off-season as well.
And yet the media puts it otherwise, as if they downgraded on that end. Just goes to show how clueless the average sports journalist is.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 7, 2017 12:07:53 GMT -5
Regardless of who was to blame for the saga surrounding the trade and potentially failing IT on his physical, what's going on now is absurd.
Cleveland let it out that there were concerns about the hip and now, Altman is refusing to address it at the presser? Did he not expect those questions? He should've gotten out in front of it.
Mannix saying an NBA exec thinks that they have NO idea when he'll be back (based on what he's seeing/hearing at the presser)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 7, 2017 12:50:37 GMT -5
With reports that Celtics plan to start Horford at C. I assume the starters would be Horford, Morris and Hayward to start the season at least. Tatum could come into play at PF, we'll see.
What was the biggest difference over the last two years in our defensive rating? Rebounding. When we lost Sullinger our D tanked because we couldn't rebound. Morris is a horrible rebounder. That didn't matter playing with Drummond, but it will on the Celtics. Nevermind an elite rim protector like Drummond surely helped Morris and his defensive numbers. Same thing with Hayward playing with Gobbert. We don't have an elite rim protecting big man to help our defenders.
I would expect Morris to have better offensive numbers and worse defensive numbers on the Celtics. His size should make him better at PF than Crowder, but that wasn't Crowders fulltime position. We did that for offense and it worked out great. Crowder is better than Hayward, so at SF it's a downgrade in my book.
Losing Bradley is going to hurt against elite PGs. He could drive the Curry's of the world mad with his on ball D. Maybe Smart will be better at guarding quick pgs after losing 20 pounds or they use Rozier in a Bradley role. You really can't compare Hayward to Bradley unless you think Hayward can guard PGs. There roles on D will not even be close to the same, even if Hayward starts at SG.
The Celtics lost 60% of there starting lineup in Thomas, Crowder and Bradley. Crowder and Bradley were two very good two way players. I don't think sports journalist are clueless, not even close. Overall we likely downgraded on D. Guys that knew and perfectly fit Brads system. We might have more talent, but whats our identity? For the last couple years it was about D with Crowder, Bradley and Smart. With Thomas providing the scoring. Now I have a feeling it's just going to be about scoring.
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