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6/9-6/11 Red Sox vs. Tigers Series Thread
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 10, 2017 22:45:52 GMT -5
We'll ask that you refrain from name-calling, or pushing opinions as fact. Feel free to create a thread we can park somewhere else. Keep it out of the gameday stuff, please.
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 10, 2017 22:57:55 GMT -5
Made sure to mention over and over that it was my opinion, not once did i push that opinion as fact. Duly noted for the other part though.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 11, 2017 4:13:03 GMT -5
Note to the usage of Joe Kelly-
John Farrell spoke on WEEI about trying to keep him away from pitching on back to back days. I don't know if they're protecting him because it's his first full year of being a reliever, but it's been working. Joe Kelly seems better when he's ramped up and strong coming into those one inning stints with a good amount of rest.
Barnes however is Farrell's go to guy in the bullpen (in other high leverage innings) because he's a strong kid who's really durable at the moment. Hembree is Farrell's other go to guy to give the Sox some length in the lower leverage innings.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 11, 2017 5:06:13 GMT -5
On the third base situation for now-
Josh Rutledge should be the guy starting games there until the late innings with leads where Marrero can come in.
Maybe Pablo could be a good pinch hitter that can sit on the bench and give a at bat (left handed bat) when the catcher's spot in the lineup comes up in a spot where the Sox could use a hit late in games (and look for a better matchup versus a good right handed reliever). I have no problem letting Pablo be the 25th man on a roster and seeing very little playing time and being essentially a roster filler (even at his salary at this point).
Every once in a while they can DH him versus a tough right handed starter to give Hanley a break too.
This should be the plan until Devers is ready to come up or the Sox go and get a better upgrade at third base around the trade deadline (Moustakas type).
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 11, 2017 5:37:44 GMT -5
I am 2/3 of the way complete with my anger management class. If they win tonight, I will receive my course completion certificate.
Regarding Hanley. If there is indeed an injury, then some room should be given for criticism. However, there is real reason to be frustrated with him at this point. We don't know if he is a DH type. As such, his performance is basically his bat. I don't know if he is malcontent, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that he is an enigmatic type of person. In and of itself, that is going to raise of few eyebrows.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 11, 2017 9:33:49 GMT -5
I am 2/3 of the way complete with my anger management class. If they win tonight, I will receive my course completion certificate. Regarding Hanley. If there is indeed an injury, then some room should be given for criticism. However, there is real reason to be frustrated with him at this point. We don't know if he is a DH type. As such, his performance is basically his bat. I don't know if he is malcontent, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that he is an enigmatic type of person. In and of itself, that is going to raise of few eyebrows. The fact that he cannot play 1B is enough to tell me he's injured. It was said in spring training that his right shoulder made it so he could not throw and they have never updated that report. Since then he has played 4 innings in the field. They could definitely use him in the field and let other players get a day off, plus get Chris Young some games at DH vs LHP.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 11, 2017 9:36:16 GMT -5
On the third base situation for now- Josh Rutledge should be the guy starting games there until the late innings with leads where Marrero can come in. Maybe Pablo could be a good pinch hitter that can sit on the bench and give a at bat (left handed bat) when the catcher's spot in the lineup comes up in a spot where the Sox could use a hit late in games (and look for a better matchup versus a good right handed reliever). I have no problem letting Pablo be the 25th man on a roster and seeing very little playing time and being essentially a roster filler (even at his salary at this point). Every once in a while they can DH him versus a tough right handed starter to give Hanley a break too. This should be the plan until Devers is ready to come up or the Sox go and get a better upgrade at third base around the trade deadline (Moustakas type). They can't afford a roster spot for someone who does so little. The young guys need a day off once a month or so that they're not getting off now.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 11, 2017 9:44:12 GMT -5
On the third base situation for now- Josh Rutledge should be the guy starting games there until the late innings with leads where Marrero can come in. Maybe Pablo could be a good pinch hitter that can sit on the bench and give a at bat (left handed bat) when the catcher's spot in the lineup comes up in a spot where the Sox could use a hit late in games (and look for a better matchup versus a good right handed reliever). I have no problem letting Pablo be the 25th man on a roster and seeing very little playing time and being essentially a roster filler (even at his salary at this point). Every once in a while they can DH him versus a tough right handed starter to give Hanley a break too. This should be the plan until Devers is ready to come up or the Sox go and get a better upgrade at third base around the trade deadline (Moustakas type). They can't afford a roster spot for someone who does so little. The young guys need a day off once a month or so that they're not getting off now. Yeah I agree, I was only thinking that until they actually find someone else other than Pablo.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 11, 2017 9:46:48 GMT -5
The fact that he cannot play 1B is enough to tell me he's injured. It was said in spring training that his right shoulder made it so he could not throw and they have never updated that report. Since then he has played 4 innings in the field. They could definitely use him in the field and let other players get a day off, plus get Chris Young some games at DH vs LHP. here is the article from the spring. they didn't feel, at that time, it would be a lingering issue. Wouldn't the team want to let it be known at some point if it still is an issue? At a minimum, it might help with criticism of him. Or do you think he might not be telling the team? bosoxinjection.com/2017/03/18/red-sox-hanley-ramirez-progress-shoulder-soreness/
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Post by geostorm on Jun 11, 2017 10:25:33 GMT -5
I thought Hanley was a dog once upon a time, when he was with the Marlins and went half hearted after a ball and his manager and he got into it. He went to Ortiz with it and Ortiz set him straight. I thought the Sox might be getting a dog with Hanley, a sourpuss type of attitude. I saw a guy get injured playing a position that he had no idea how to play (then I saw Swihart do the same thing). Instead of seeing a guy with a crappy attitude I saw a guy playing with a smile on his face and having an easy going personality. This guy isn't who I thought he was. I thought he was aloof Manny. That's not the case with Hanley. When Hanley is injured, which happens quite often with him, he struggles. When he's healthy, he's a very dangerous hitter, as we saw last season, a year in which he was healthy. Same deal with Pedroia. He finally was healthy last season and he played as well as he's played in years. Then as soon as he had surgery in the offseason, I knew it was going to be one of those years for him. And sure enough he isn't doing what he did last year. The Red Sox offensive decline is more than losing Ortiz. It's also having two injury prone players in Pedroia and Hanley at less than 100% which affects their performances. But no Hanley has to be dogging it. Yeah, Right. www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirha01.shtmlwww.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandopa01.shtmlPapi had a remarkable, likely unprecedented age 38 season, in 2014, and the Sox scored 634 runs, a level not seen during a full season, for 20+ years. Imagine that year with w/o Papi...and what could next season look like, and the years thereafter...after all, what did MLB history look like, for 38 year olds? I'm sure Red Sox ops did. As I recall, the Sox rushed in paying a premium, likely targeting what they perceived as the best available bats, they perhaps thought could bolster the offense, currently, w an expectation that over the term of their contracts, would help mitigate the loss of Ortiz. I remember thinking that while Pablo's numbers were trending down, over the last 2-3 yrs w SF, I saw a player still only 27, and a player who played well in the playoffs, so seemingly not afraid of the spotlight, making him more likely to fit under the microscope that can be Boston...and I thought Hanley an offensive upgrade that for whatever is non-baseball issues may have been, could always hit, and w (what I thought might be) a yr w/ Papi, would transition into DH role... ...this is a simple analysis, admittedly, but if the 2017 Red Sox got at worst Hanley's career average OPS+, and Panda's last season (2014) as a Giants, and Hanley could play 1B consistently v LHP, and in NL rules games, as needed, I'd feel better about the hitting settling in, this season and the duration of those contracts. 100% agree w the representation that a healthy Hanley will hit, and at times hit well enough to help carry a team for stretches. That a healthy Hanley can play a passable 1B, as needed, and as DH, would give you 80-90% of Ortiz' production... ...on what happened to Pablo, w/ numbers in decline, yet still only 27 at the time of his signing. Don't know. I can understand the thinking at the time, that perhaps Pablo contract, through what should've been his prime, albeit w declining numbers, and in a new league entirely, might be a sufficient bridge to the next home grown Red Sox 3B (despite the "cost overruns" on that bridge! . I found it interesting during this season that there is a question on the void created by no longer having Ortiz, where, in 2014, the Sox seemed to be anticipating that, partly, in executing two transactions that they thought that together w/ where they projected player development would facilitate the Post-Papi transition, wherever that might break, and I think if this team gets an approximation of Hanley's 2016 season/career average, and the equivalent of Pablo's 2014 production from anyone at 3B, the offense will be okay.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 11, 2017 10:29:26 GMT -5
The fact that he cannot play 1B is enough to tell me he's injured. It was said in spring training that his right shoulder made it so he could not throw and they have never updated that report. Since then he has played 4 innings in the field. They could definitely use him in the field and let other players get a day off, plus get Chris Young some games at DH vs LHP. here is the article from the spring. they didn't feel, at that time, it would be a lingering issue. Wouldn't the team want to let it be known at some point if it still is an issue? At a minimum, it might help with criticism of him. Or do you think he might not be telling the team? bosoxinjection.com/2017/03/18/red-sox-hanley-ramirez-progress-shoulder-soreness/If Ramirez is injured you would the Red Sox would sit him down as he is providing very little production and with each game he plays he gets closer to triggering his 2019 option which is 1,050 plate appearances between 2017 and 2018 which would be $22 million.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 11, 2017 10:48:35 GMT -5
I just wonder when the Sox pull the trigger on bringing up Sam Travis again if Hanley doesn't start hitting.
Maybe this is who they they DFA Sandoval for.
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Jun 11, 2017 11:06:47 GMT -5
I just wonder when the Sox pull the trigger on bringing up Sam Travis again if Hanley doesn't start hitting. Maybe this is who they they DFA Sandoval for.Please don't tease me like this.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 11, 2017 12:41:09 GMT -5
o's pitching is a tire fire
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 11, 2017 13:48:40 GMT -5
If Ramirez is injured you would the Red Sox would sit him down as he is providing very little production and with each game he plays he gets closer to triggering his 2019 option which is 1,050 plate appearances between 2017 and 2018 which would be $22 million. Credit......You couldn't be more right about this. And it would create a big problem if it is his word against theirs. An injury posit has a right to be questioned.
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Post by m1keyboots on Jun 11, 2017 14:40:11 GMT -5
It's obvious having David in the lineup gave hitters better pitches to hit, and Hanley really punishes mistakes more than hits good pitches. Although dellin betances and his letter high fastball have something to say about that.
Hanley got hot last year, I feel like he deserves the same opportunity as last year.
Also, is there anything more entertaining than Hanley going off for 3 weeks looking like prime Pujols?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 11, 2017 14:43:49 GMT -5
Another thing Ortiz was doing was notifying his teammates as to what they'd face in their ABs. I remember reading that he was a master of pitch sequencing, as if he knew what pitches were coming, and he was freely sharing that information was his teammates. Had to think that helped them a bit in their ABs. And that is missing this season.
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Post by jbuttah on Jun 11, 2017 15:14:51 GMT -5
Another thing Ortiz was doing was notifying his teammates as to what they'd face in their ABs. I remember reading that he was a master of pitch sequencing, as if he knew what pitches were coming, and he was freely sharing that information was his teammates. Had to think that helped them a bit in their ABs. And that is missing this season. Any reason he can't let them know now? Probably watches alot of the games. Think it's just simply that you can't replace a hall of famer in your lineup that easily. Trying to be more aggressive on the basepaths also seems misguided as a way of compensating.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 11, 2017 15:23:22 GMT -5
I think people are exaggerating the effects Ortiz had. It's not like if he were still on the team, they'd be scoring more than a run more per game or anything. And why didn't he help Hanley before late June last year or in 2015?
Hanley hits when he's healthy, Papi or not.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 11, 2017 17:08:00 GMT -5
Another thing Ortiz was doing was notifying his teammates as to what they'd face in their ABs. I remember reading that he was a master of pitch sequencing, as if he knew what pitches were coming, and he was freely sharing that information was his teammates. Had to think that helped them a bit in their ABs. And that is missing this season. Any reason he can't let them know now? Probably watches alot of the games. Think it's just simply that you can't replace a hall of famer in your lineup that easily. Trying to be more aggressive on the basepaths also seems misguided as a way of compensating. He's not in the dugout anymore. That makes a difference.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 11, 2017 17:10:12 GMT -5
I think people are exaggerating the effects Ortiz had. It's not like if he were still on the team, they'd be scoring more than a run more per game or anything. And why didn't he help Hanley before late June last year or in 2015? Hanley hits when he's healthy, Papi or not. It's Papi, but it's also Pedroia and Hanley battling injuries, and Mookie off to a slow start, although I'd anticipate he'll pick it up soon. And JBJ had the otherworldly month. He's been hitting better but that month last year was off the charts.
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Post by p23w on Jun 11, 2017 18:02:44 GMT -5
I don't believe the Ortiz effect is exaggerated in the least. Nor do I believe his effect to be instantaneous. Communication is involved along with positive verbal reinforcement. Some people listen, others take time to join. One needs to be in the dugout and clubhouse (and batting cage/although that talk is more about swing mechanics) to get the full effect. Ortiz faced a mid-late career batting crisis and worked through it. That achievement in and of itself was reason to listen to the man.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 11, 2017 19:08:56 GMT -5
Let's go. Sweep these guys.
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Post by geostorm on Jun 11, 2017 19:12:33 GMT -5
phew...
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 11, 2017 19:13:35 GMT -5
FFS!!!
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