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7/21-7/23 Red Sox @ Angels Series Thread
redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2017 8:14:12 GMT -5
The offense did what it normally does. Score a few runs here and there for a short stretch and then go on shutdown.
You look around and nobody is doing better than they're supposed to. Going forward Betts and Benintendi should do better, although I've been saying that for awhile. You would hope Hanley would have a 2nd half like last year, but I still don't know how healthy he is.
And speaking of health, is anybody surprised to see Bogaerts struggle so much after he got hit? They should DL him and let him heal properly. For what he's giving them, they might as well have the Lin/Marrero platoon at SS. Moreland is hitting like Moreland, which is better than replacement level, but less than you'd want at 1b.
So the Sox basically has a hole at C, SS, 1b, and 3b these days while DH has been largely uninspiring. Eventually I'd anticipate SS (with healthy Bogaerts) and 3b (with Devers) to improve. 1b is a question mark. They could get a DH and keep Hanley at 1b again, which might wake up his bat, and utilize Moreland off the bench as a LH bench guy that they don't really have and would need when the catcher's spot is up.
Through all this Pedroia is Pedroia. He's looking healthier and producing. I hope he's joined (consistently) by Betts and Benintendi.
Until then, this team will waste good pitching performances, although last night's performance doesn't qualify. They might get hot enough despite the mediocre offense to put together a 15-5 streak that will take them toward 90 wins (if they don't balance it with a 7-13 stretch or something like that), but if they want to get to that next level, they need to be more consistent generating offense, which is hard to do when you need to string 3 hits together because you don't have the consistent power to put up 2 or 3 runs with one swing of the bat. This is why I wanted Frazier so bad. Not because he's such a great offensive player. His OPS isn't that much different than the rest, but he has homerun power which I think helps to balance the lineup. Right now, the power is so spotty up and down that lineup and there are way too many holes right now.
Devers might be very shaky defensively, but at this point, I don't think the Red Sox have a better option for 3b, but it's hardly a given he'll hit right away, but they're going to have to take that chance. He has the highest ceiling offensively off all the 3b possibilities left.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 23, 2017 8:26:43 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox are comfortable making Hanley a everyday first baseman again. Every time he has started first base, it has usually followed with a day off.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2017 8:31:53 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox are comfortable making Hanley a everyday first baseman again. Every time he has started first base, it has usually followed with a day off. Fair point, and then when you add to it that the Red Sox only have so many trade chips that they can afford to deal with and they're up against the luxury tax line, then it's highly unlikely that Mitch Moreland is dislodged as a regular 1b. More likely Hanley will play 1b against lefties so that Chris Young can DH against southpaws, so you get the Moreland/Young platoon that Farrell wanted from the get-go. This is why I don't think Abreu is coming Boston's way or any other big bat.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 23, 2017 8:42:17 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox are comfortable making Hanley a everyday first baseman again. Every time he has started first base, it has usually followed with a day off. Fair point, and then when you add to it that the Red Sox only have so many trade chips that they can afford to deal with and they're up against the luxury tax line, then it's highly unlikely that Mitch Moreland is dislodged as a regular 1b. More likely Hanley will play 1b against lefties so that Chris Young can DH against southpaws, so you get the Moreland/Young platoon that Farrell wanted from the get-go. This is why I don't think Abreu is coming Boston's way or any other big bat. If you trade Moreland you will be able to stay under the luxury tax threshold, if you want to go get Abreu. Abreu is making 12.16 million this year. Moreland is making 5.5 million. Cut both salaries owed in half for the rest of the season and Moreland will be owed 2.25 million and Abreu will make 6 million the rest of the way. That means the Sox would only have to take on a extra 3.5 to 4 million extra to get Abreu. They are currently close to 8 million dollars under the luxury tax threshold. They could potentially get Abreu at the deadline with relative ease at the trade deadline with no ramifications against the tax.
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 23, 2017 9:19:33 GMT -5
A 500 team when Sale doesnt pitch.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2017 9:35:45 GMT -5
Fair point, and then when you add to it that the Red Sox only have so many trade chips that they can afford to deal with and they're up against the luxury tax line, then it's highly unlikely that Mitch Moreland is dislodged as a regular 1b. More likely Hanley will play 1b against lefties so that Chris Young can DH against southpaws, so you get the Moreland/Young platoon that Farrell wanted from the get-go. This is why I don't think Abreu is coming Boston's way or any other big bat. If you trade Moreland you will be able to stay under the luxury tax threshold, if you want to go get Abreu. Abreu is making 12.16 million this year. Moreland is making 5.5 million. Cut both salaries owed in half for the rest of the season and Moreland will be owed 2.25 million and Abreu will make 6 million the rest of the way. That means the Sox would only have to take on a extra 3.5 to 4 million extra to get Abreu. They are currently close to 8 million dollars under the luxury tax threshold. They could potentially get Abreu at the deadline with relative ease at the trade deadline with no ramifications against the tax. If the ChiSox took back Moreland, sure, but what about the rest of the package? The fact is the Sox have very little high end talent left, so do the Red Sox need to trade three of Groome, Travis, Chavis and Mata to make this work? Is it really worth it? The Red Sox can't always clear out their farm system. Right now Groome is the only top end starter they have in the minors. Chavis and Ockimey and Dalbec are the only true power hitters they have in the minors. The system has been thinned out. Watching what the White Sox have been doing they don't emerge from their deals without getting blue chip prospects in return. I think the Red Sox have traded away enough of them and a lot of depth along the way.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 10:09:56 GMT -5
A 500 team when Sale doesnt pitch. .526, but we do see the diff. Then again, be interesting to see how many of those losses were 1-2 runs where the offense pancaked.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 23, 2017 10:33:30 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 23, 2017 10:35:32 GMT -5
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2017 10:57:45 GMT -5
Talk about taking out Sale's record on the day he pitches what is the Red Sox record when Rick Porcello doesn't pitch?
Do they ever win when Porcello pitches anymore?
Do they even score when Porcello pitches anymore?
Believe me, this is not a slam against Porcello. He's nowhere near as good as last season. Regression was expected although Porcello has been too hittable and given up too many homers.
Still, Porcello is maybe 25% at fault for what happened when he has pitched. It's certainly not his fault the offense takes a day off way too often on days he pitches.
Way back when it was Clemens, Boyd, Hurst, and expect the worst. And usually the worst balanced out Boyd and Hurst and you had .500 plus Clemens.
This rotation is better than that. The problem is almost totally square on the offense.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 23, 2017 11:27:14 GMT -5
Red Sox are 5-33 when they score three runs or less. Clearly this is a flawed team which is hamstrung by albatross contracts and lack of production from Ramirez and Sandoval, combined with a once elite minor league system which has very little talent and depth at the upper levels of the system. Not sure there is much they can do to improve significantly improve things as they can't take on much salary and they don't have the trading chips to acquire someone who is going to make a meaningful difference this year unless you are willing to give up some of their top remaining prospects such as Devers and Groome. The best moves may have to be internal moves, including activating Smith, promoting Brentz, Lin and eventually Devers (by 8/15) to infuse some life into this lineup.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 11:38:11 GMT -5
So what I'm seeing here is this team is 5-33 when it scores fewer than 3 runs, and (duh) 5-25 when they score between 1-3 runs. That portends very poorly for the playoffs where games are often decided by 2 or fewer runs. Anyone saying this team needs a relief pitcher first and foremost (Dave Dombrowski) may now leave the room. I posed earlier in the week that the Sox go big and trade ONE of Pomeranz or ERod in a package (i.e. add Chavis or even Groome if absolutely necessary) for a controllable "big" bat (i.e. elite high OBP/high power guy who you control for 3 or more years). I am now 100% in that camp and will add Porcello to the mix if they could actually find a team to take the salary.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 23, 2017 11:38:30 GMT -5
Aren't the Sox 13-6 when Pomeranz pitches? So... also true ace by that definition?
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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 11:41:48 GMT -5
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Post by templeusox on Jul 23, 2017 11:46:20 GMT -5
Nevermind
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 23, 2017 11:46:38 GMT -5
Red Sox are 5-33 when they score three runs or less. Clearly this is a flawed team which is hamstrung by albatross contracts and lack of production from Ramirez and Sandoval, combined with a once elite minor league system which has very little talent and depth at the upper levels of the system. Not sure there is much they can do to improve significantly improve things as they can't take on much salary and they don't have the trading chips to acquire someone who is going to make a meaningful difference this year unless you are willing to give up some of their top remaining prospects such as Devers and Groome. The best moves may have to be internal moves, including activating Smith, promoting Brentz, Lin and eventually Devers (by 8/15) to infuse some life into this lineup. They also lead the division and have the best ERA in the AL. Not sure they need to improve all that much.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2017 11:46:40 GMT -5
I bet other teams have a similar record when scoring 3 or fewer runs.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2017 11:47:37 GMT -5
Red Sox are 5-33 when they score three runs or less. Clearly this is a flawed team which is hamstrung by albatross contracts and lack of production from Ramirez and Sandoval, combined with a once elite minor league system which has very little talent and depth at the upper levels of the system. Not sure there is much they can do to improve significantly improve things as they can't take on much salary and they don't have the trading chips to acquire someone who is going to make a meaningful difference this year unless you are willing to give up some of their top remaining prospects such as Devers and Groome. The best moves may have to be internal moves, including activating Smith, promoting Brentz, Lin and eventually Devers (by 8/15) to infuse some life into this lineup. They also lead the division and have the best ERA in the AL. Not sure they need to improve all that much. I've noticed that Red Sox fans have a huge problem with having mediocre hitting with excellent pitching, but not the other way around. It's what we're used to.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 11:59:48 GMT -5
Red Sox are 5-33 when they score three runs or less. Clearly this is a flawed team which is hamstrung by albatross contracts and lack of production from Ramirez and Sandoval, combined with a once elite minor league system which has very little talent and depth at the upper levels of the system. Not sure there is much they can do to improve significantly improve things as they can't take on much salary and they don't have the trading chips to acquire someone who is going to make a meaningful difference this year unless you are willing to give up some of their top remaining prospects such as Devers and Groome. The best moves may have to be internal moves, including activating Smith, promoting Brentz, Lin and eventually Devers (by 8/15) to infuse some life into this lineup. They also lead the division and have the best ERA in the AL. Not sure they need to improve all that much. Difference between first round losers and AL Champs/World Series contenders perhaps? YOU make the call (NFL flash back to the 80s, kids).
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 23, 2017 12:02:25 GMT -5
They also lead the division and have the best ERA in the AL. Not sure they need to improve all that much. I've noticed that Red Sox fans have a huge problem with having mediocre hitting with excellent pitching, but not the other way around. It's what we're used to. This team is getting shut down by mediocre pitching. Doesn't bode well if they are fortunate enough to make the playoffs in a wild card game or short series.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 12:20:48 GMT -5
They also lead the division and have the best ERA in the AL. Not sure they need to improve all that much. I've noticed that Red Sox fans have a huge problem with having mediocre hitting with excellent pitching, but not the other way around. It's what we're used to. Is there a year since 1918 they've won it all without both?
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Post by soxjim on Jul 23, 2017 13:08:33 GMT -5
You look around and nobody is doing better than they're supposed to. Going forward Betts and Benintendi should do better, although I've been saying that for awhile. You would hope Hanley would have a 2nd half like last year, but I still don't know how healthy he is. And speaking of health, is anybody surprised to see Bogaerts struggle so much after he got hit? They should DL him and let him heal properly. For what he's giving them, they might as well have the Lin/Marrero platoon at SS. Moreland is hitting like Moreland, which is better than replacement level, but less than you'd want at 1b. This is why I wanted Frazier so bad. Not because he's such a great offensive player. His OPS isn't that much different than the rest, but he has homerun power which I think helps to balance the lineup. Devers might be very shaky defensively, but at this point, I don't think the Red Sox have a better option for 3b, but it's hardly a given he'll hit right away, but they're going to have to take that chance. He has the highest ceiling offensively off all the 3b possibilities left. I agree with most of your post. Though I do prefer to do what the Red Sox are doing right now- remain patient. You are right, other than Pedey (and I'll add Bradley) no one that was counted to hit is hitting to their projections. And I'm with you 100% about Xander. I think it is so obvious that they should rest him. Several things I don't get about managers or GM's that I think are obvious. I did not want Frazier that bad. OFC I would have liked him. But I think this team needs a left hand power bat. I think Devers can play. Even if not at 3b - as a DH. If Devers is a good hitter - then why pay quite a bit? Would like to see how Devers can hit in big leagues. I'm getting more down on Holt though and wouldn't mind a lwo cost upgrade.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 23, 2017 13:40:24 GMT -5
I've noticed that Red Sox fans have a huge problem with having mediocre hitting with excellent pitching, but not the other way around. It's what we're used to. Is there a year since 1918 they've won it all without both? You're both right. I had to chuckle with jimed's comment because it is so true. This is what historically is the anti-Sox team. Who woulda thunk playing in Fenway we are last in HRs? Still, going into last night we had the second highest team BA in the AL and only 7 runs from 3rd place in most runs scored. I think not being able to comeback from deficits is what depresses. Instead of being one hit from getting back in a game, we are one hit from being out of it.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2017 13:56:54 GMT -5
Is there a year since 1918 they've won it all without both? You're both right. I had to chuckle with jimed's comment because it is so true. This is what historically is the anti-Sox team. Who woulda thunk playing in Fenway we are last in HRs? Still, going into last night we had the second highest team BA in the AL and only 7 runs from 3rd place in most runs scored. I think not being able to comeback from deficits is what depresses. Instead of being one hit from getting back in a game, we are one hit from being out of it.In a year where homers are up all around both leagues, no less.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 23, 2017 14:19:58 GMT -5
I think it is important to understand not only the loss of Ortiz (huge), but the pressure on some very young players. Benny, Xander, Mookie, JBJ - all kids - all supremely talented. But handling the expectations is another thing - we are building a great foundation and of course, we are spoiled with all of the recent success.
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