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8/21-8/24 Red Sox @ Indians Series Thread
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Post by incandenza on Aug 24, 2017 2:08:26 GMT -5
Okay, I have some feelings about that HBP I need to work through.
1) Hitting a guy when you're down by one run, with a runner on 1st, is criminally stupid, even if a Man's True Honor is on the line.
2) And but why did Kluber hit Nunez? Apparently because Nunez swung hard at a pitch. Umm... what? Are you freaking kidding me? It makes you mad that a batter is trying to swing at a pitch you threw? This sinks past criminal stupidity into incomprehensible absurdity.
3) I like how Dave O'Brien kept setting up Gomes, practically begging him to talk about how stupid it was, but Gomes just kept being like "You take your base and that's just good old fashioned baseball right there and the boys'll pick you up and sniffing and lizards and whatever." (Seriously, Gomes has exactly one setting, he's like a giant walking high five. I guess I can see why he was known as a good clubhouse guy, but the complete lack of emotional range becomes a little unbearable after a couple of hours.)
4) How do you feel about that beaning if you're Terry Francona? Kluber was over 100 pitches, I might've considered taking him out after that, if any bullpen arms were ready. And how do you feel about it if you're his teammates? If nothing else, he made it more likely that one of them'll get beaned tomorrow (though I really hope the Red Sox don't retaliate).
5) But I just can't get over this - he really hit him because Nunez took a big swing? As stupid as the unwritten rules of baseball are, they can't be that stupid, can they?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2017 2:51:22 GMT -5
Pomeranz hit Bruce in the 4th. That wasn't mentioned in the broadcast. When Kluber hit Nunez he was near the end of his night. Nunez was joking with Encanacion after he reached base. It's a non-issue.
It also wasn't a beaning. The pitch hit Nunez on his elbow where he wears armor.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Aug 24, 2017 3:51:57 GMT -5
Pomeranz hit Bruce in the 4th. That wasn't mentioned in the broadcast. When Kluber hit Nunez he was near the end of his night. Nunez was joking with Encanacion after he reached base. It's a non-issue. It also wasn't a beaning. The pitch hit Nunez on his elbow where he wears armor. That brings up an interesting question. When did "beaning" morph from being hit in the head by a pitch to being hit anywhere (or maybe more precisely, anywhere above the waist) by a pitch? It seems that a lot of commenters about HBP use the term "beaning" very loosely. Sal Maglie and Don Drysdale are turning over in their graves.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 24, 2017 5:07:22 GMT -5
3) I like how Dave O'Brien kept setting up Gomes, practically begging him to talk about how stupid it was, but Gomes just kept being like "You take your base and that's just good old fashioned baseball right there and the boys'll pick you up and sniffing and lizards and whatever." (Seriously, Gomes has exactly one setting, he's like a giant walking high five. I guess I can see why he was known as a good clubhouse guy, but the complete lack of emotional range becomes a little unbearable after a couple of hours.) Jonny Gomes is bro. That's how he carried himself as a player, that's how he is going to be as a broadcaster.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2017 5:44:06 GMT -5
Pomeranz hit Bruce in the 4th. That wasn't mentioned in the broadcast. When Kluber hit Nunez he was near the end of his night. Nunez was joking with Encanacion after he reached base. It's a non-issue. It also wasn't a beaning. The pitch hit Nunez on his elbow where he wears armor. That brings up an interesting question. When did "beaning" morph from being hit in the head by a pitch to being hit anywhere (or maybe more precisely, anywhere above the waist) by a pitch? It seems that a lot of commenters about HBP use the term "beaning" very loosely. Sal Maglie and Don Drysdale are turning over in their graves. lol, Sal was nicknamed "The Barber" because of where he pitched when you crowded the plate.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2017 5:54:08 GMT -5
3) I like how Dave O'Brien kept setting up Gomes, practically begging him to talk about how stupid it was, but Gomes just kept being like "You take your base and that's just good old fashioned baseball right there and the boys'll pick you up and sniffing and lizards and whatever." (Seriously, Gomes has exactly one setting, he's like a giant walking high five. I guess I can see why he was known as a good clubhouse guy, but the complete lack of emotional range becomes a little unbearable after a couple of hours.) Jonny Gomes is bro. That's how he carried himself as a player, that's how he is going to be as a broadcaster. Some good things and some not so good things about the recent parade of ex-Sox manning the booth. So far, I liked Salty the best. The flip-side is that all are a vast improvement over Lyons.
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Post by patford on Aug 24, 2017 7:09:58 GMT -5
It would be nice if criticisms of Farrell's bullpen management were at least consistent.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 24, 2017 7:15:35 GMT -5
Jonny Gomes is bro. That's how he carried himself as a player, that's how he is going to be as a broadcaster. Some good things and some not so good things about the recent parade of ex-Sox manning the booth. So far, I liked Salty the best. The flip-side is that all are a vast improvement over Lyons. Gomes exhausts me in a way that not even Lyons could.
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Post by h11233 on Aug 24, 2017 8:31:45 GMT -5
Pomeranz hit Bruce in the 4th. That wasn't mentioned in the broadcast. When Kluber hit Nunez he was near the end of his night. Nunez was joking with Encanacion after he reached base. It's a non-issue. It also wasn't a beaning. The pitch hit Nunez on his elbow where he wears armor. That brings up an interesting question. When did "beaning" morph from being hit in the head by a pitch to being hit anywhere (or maybe more precisely, anywhere above the waist) by a pitch? It seems that a lot of commenters about HBP use the term "beaning" very loosely. Sal Maglie and Don Drysdale are turning over in their graves. It's semantics, but any time it's with intent I'd call it a "beaning." And that has no place in the game, it shouldn't matter where they get hit or whether it results in injury. These are supposed to be professionals, but they can't seem to help but act like children sometimes.
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Post by Coreno on Aug 24, 2017 8:35:01 GMT -5
Some good things and some not so good things about the recent parade of ex-Sox manning the booth. So far, I liked Salty the best. The flip-side is that all are a vast improvement over Lyons. Gomes exhausts me in a way that not even Lyons could. Is it his lack of finesse?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 24, 2017 9:17:48 GMT -5
Kimbrel is on pace to pitch near his career high in innings. We have played 3/4 (roughly) of the season. If we extrapolate that out he will likely finish a career high in innings. The thing is, he is showing no signs of slowing down. I can't blame JF for pitching him the last 2 games in non-save situations. These teams are our biggest competition to playoff seeding. It would be disastrous to lose one of those games, just because we scored some runs in the previous half inning that made a save (hold) moot, while he was warming up.
That said, i am sure they are watching and talking with him to make sure he isn't overused.
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Post by waterview on Aug 24, 2017 9:43:23 GMT -5
Okay, I have some feelings about that HBP I need to work through. 1) Hitting a guy when you're down by one run, with a runner on 1st, is criminally stupid, even if a Man's True Honor is on the line. 2) And but why did Kluber hit Nunez? Apparently because Nunez swung hard at a pitch. Umm... what? Are you freaking kidding me? It makes you mad that a batter is trying to swing at a pitch you threw? This sinks past criminal stupidity into incomprehensible absurdity. 3) I like how Dave O'Brien kept setting up Gomes, practically begging him to talk about how stupid it was, but Gomes just kept being like "You take your base and that's just good old fashioned baseball right there and the boys'll pick you up and sniffing and lizards and whatever." (Seriously, Gomes has exactly one setting, he's like a giant walking high five. I guess I can see why he was known as a good clubhouse guy, but the complete lack of emotional range becomes a little unbearable after a couple of hours.) 4) How do you feel about that beaning if you're Terry Francona? Kluber was over 100 pitches, I might've considered taking him out after that, if any bullpen arms were ready. And how do you feel about it if you're his teammates? If nothing else, he made it more likely that one of them'll get beaned tomorrow (though I really hope the Red Sox don't retaliate). 5) But I just can't get over this - he really hit him because Nunez took a big swing? As stupid as the unwritten rules of baseball are, they can't be that stupid, can they? Totally agree with all aspects of this post. Excellent points, start to finish. Oh, and I find Gomes unbearable. May have to put the games on mute if they use him much more. BTW, I kind of like Lenny DiNardo in the pre and post-game shows. He actually provides visuals re pitching so we can better understand the nuances. What a concept!
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Post by brendan98 on Aug 24, 2017 11:06:05 GMT -5
I really hope that Nunez' HR in the 9th last night was the retaliation for his HBP, and that Sale doesn't decide to get his pound of flesh for his teammate. In my opinion, this one should be over, the Red Sox are on a roll, don't need a Sale suspension, or a distraction that could come from retaliating and get this team off of the roll that it's on.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 24, 2017 11:17:41 GMT -5
Kimbrel is on pace to pitch near his career high in innings. We have played 3/4 (roughly) of the season. If we extrapolate that out he will likely finish a career high in innings. The thing is, he is showing no signs of slowing down. I can't blame JF for pitching him the last 2 games in non-save situations. These teams are our biggest competition to playoff seeding. It would be disastrous to lose one of those games, just because we scored some runs in the previous half inning that made a save (hold) moot, while he was warming up. That said, i am sure they are watching and talking with him to make sure he isn't overused. On this whole Kimbrell pitching last night concern - he had had 3 days off. Not sure if it's true CK, but many closers/relievers don't like long layoffs. He might have just felt better pitching since he was warming to get in regular work.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 24, 2017 11:19:53 GMT -5
I really hope that Nunez' HR in the 9th last night was the retaliation for his HBP, and that Sale doesn't decide to get his pound of flesh for his teammate. In my opinion, this one should be over, the Red Sox are on a roll, don't need a Sale suspension, or a distraction that could come from retaliating and get this team off of the roll that it's on. I put it at 70%, no retaliatio. Although, there have been no formal warnings, so unless something is said prior to the game, Sale wouldn't normally be up for a suspension. My gut says the team would rather concentrate on winning games, but that was the dumbest reason I have ever heard for that HBP. A guy swung to hard, gimme a break.
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Post by sibbysisti on Aug 24, 2017 11:23:54 GMT -5
It would be nice if criticisms of Farrell's bullpen management were at least consistent. Farrell has done a magnificent job handling the bullpen this year. The stats speak for themselves. Actually, the whole pitching staff has shown remarkable consistency given the injury to price, the poor start by Porcello, and the treatment of Pomeranz
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Post by soxfando on Aug 24, 2017 12:22:31 GMT -5
It would be nice if criticisms of Farrell's bullpen management were at least consistent. Farrell has done a magnificent job handling the bullpen this year. The stats speak for themselves. Actually, the whole pitching staff has shown remarkable consistency given the injury to price, the poor start by Porcello, and the treatment of Pomeranz I think the recent flair up in Farrell criticism on bullpen usage has to do with the fact that Farrell recently used Kimbrel in a low leverage situation and thus made him unavailable in the next high leverage situation (magnified by a late inning loss), and then he created the same situation not 3 days later (with time telling whether Kimbrel will be unavailable in a high leverage situation in the next couple games). Hopefully the red sox can win 1 of these next 2 games by more than 3 runs. The bullpen's been great this year, and I'm sure some of that has to do with use management. Though Barnes' road issues and Hembree's general malaise has taken a while to realize. Abad's been great this year, but his usage still seems to be limited by last year's small sample ineffectiveness as a Red Sox.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 24, 2017 13:10:31 GMT -5
3) I like how Dave O'Brien kept setting up Gomes, practically begging him to talk about how stupid it was, but Gomes just kept being like "You take your base and that's just good old fashioned baseball right there and the boys'll pick you up and sniffing and lizards and whatever." (Seriously, Gomes has exactly one setting, he's like a giant walking high five. I guess I can see why he was known as a good clubhouse guy, but the complete lack of emotional range becomes a little unbearable after a couple of hours.) Jonny Gomes is bro. That's how he carried himself as a player, that's how he is going to be as a broadcaster. boston.cbslocal.com/2014/04/02/toucher-and-rich-hacksaw-jonny-gomes-red-sox-1980s-wrestler-humor/One of the best things T&R has ever done, at least in the periods I've listened to them.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,017
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 24, 2017 13:50:19 GMT -5
What? Why do they need an 8-man pen?Why is an 8th reliever more useful than the only reserve INF on the bench? And if not Marrero, then Travis on the bench gives them someone who can play 1B after they hit for Moreland, if Hanley is at DH. I think that activating Boyer means he must be going into the bullpen rotation ahead of Hembree. The 7th guy in the pen, Abad, has pitched 1.2 innings since August 3 and 3.0 since July 20. Six guys seems adequate, so it's not a depth thing. Hembree, in 5 outings going back to 8/4, has allowed .375 / .444 / .688 to 19 BF. Would it make sense to deal Abad to someone who needs a LHR, if he's sitting here doing nothing? It's a wasted roster spot, whereas Marrero or Travis as defensive subs (and as an extra pinch-runner and pinch-hitter respectively) might actually have some value for the next week.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 24, 2017 14:17:11 GMT -5
They've shown a willingness to keep Boyer and Abad all year and haven't backed away from that. I expect them to be here for the rest of the season.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 24, 2017 14:28:15 GMT -5
Boyer's gotten pretty regular use when healthy, though. Talent judgment aside, Abad has used a roster space all season to face 137 batters, almost all in low-leverage situations. It's not like he's a Kyle Snyder mop-up guy who comes on and throws four innings when a game is out of hand. Abad faces like 25-30 players a month, and rarely more than four in a single game.
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Post by jmei on Aug 24, 2017 14:57:35 GMT -5
Boyer's gotten pretty regular use when healthy, though. Talent judgment aside, Abad has used a roster space all season to face 137 batters, almost all in low-leverage situations. It's not like he's a Kyle Snyder mop-up guy who comes on and throws four innings when a game is out of hand. Abad faces like 25-30 players a month, and rarely more than four in a single game. Just reading between the lines, it seems like the front office has more confidence in Abad than Farrell does. Every time Robby Scott is on the major league roster, Farrell seems willing to immediately plug him into high-leverage situations, but he's generally steered clear of using Abad in those same situations. Despite that usage pattern by Farrell, the front office has kept Abad on the roster the entire year even though they've had plenty of other options to use that roster spot.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 24, 2017 15:06:55 GMT -5
The only value Hembree ever had was as trade bait. He should have been gone long ago. And I don't get why they don't do more to stop HBP. I get that they can happen by mistake but if you've ever been drilled in the spine of your back by a 90 mph fastball you remember it forever. I don't know how these guys just walk that off. There should be no place for that stuff in baseball. Retaliation should have much higher penalties.
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Post by soxfan06 on Aug 24, 2017 15:26:39 GMT -5
Jose Iglesias still a Red Sox at heart.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 24, 2017 15:59:23 GMT -5
The only value Hembree ever had was as trade bait. He should have been gone long ago. And I don't get why they don't do more to stop HBP. I get that they can happen by mistake but if you've ever been drilled in the spine of your back by a 90 mph fastball you remember it forever. I don't know how these guys just walk that off. There should be no place for that stuff in baseball. Retaliation should have much higher penalties. I would think after what happened today in Det any pitcher drilling a guy in the next few days is asking to be run and suspended.
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