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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 2, 2017 11:13:55 GMT -5
You can believe whatever you want, but it's not about race. You can say our Country has failed all poor people, but that's just not true. You can't fail people that just want a handout. Just because you are born poor, doesn't mean you should deal drugs, commit crimes and blame someone else. This Country is the greatest because anyone can do what they want. You just have to work hard for it. In my anthropology class in College they brought in people from the State to talk to us about our social programs. Things like welfare, section 8 housing, fuel assistant, WICK, etc. Come to find out the town I grew up in was one of the poorest in the whole State by a big margin. Something like 60% plus of the people received some sort of help. It hasn't stopped the people that wanted to work hard, they are all doing well. One of my friends that grew up dirt poor makes $150,000 a year. Just so you know that's about 3 times the average household income in the town I grew up in. He's not even smart, but he works hard. His mom still lived with her mother and made minimum wage with 3 kids. Dirt poor. All three kids are doing well. Then you have the lazy people still on welfare. I don't have one friend that's not lazy that can't make a good life for himself through hard work. So don't disrespect our Country and flag. Our Country hasn't failed black communities. The issue is the same regardless of race, Americans are becoming more and more lazy. They want everything handed to them and think it's a birth right. If you want something work hard for it. I have friends that travel weekly to Boston for work. Boston is almost 3 hours away. They want to make a $100,000 plus a year. I didn't say that the country has failed black communities. The article you linked and agreed with said our country has failed the black communities. And I have no idea what anything else you said has to do with this conversation. You said that was the one truthful part. It's funnyout of that whole article that's the one part a disagree with. Economics is a big reason, but the culture behind it shows you the real problem. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 2, 2017 11:37:51 GMT -5
You can believe whatever you want, but it's not about race. You can say our Country has failed all poor people, but that's just not true. You can't fail people that just want a handout. Just because you are born poor, doesn't mean you should deal drugs, commit crimes and blame someone else. This Country is the greatest because anyone can do what they want. You just have to work hard for it. In my anthropology class in College they brought in people from the State to talk to us about our social programs. Things like welfare, section 8 housing, fuel assistant, WICK, etc. Come to find out the town I grew up in was one of the poorest in the whole State by a big margin. Something like 60% plus of the people received some sort of help. It hasn't stopped the people that wanted to work hard, they are all doing well. One of my friends that grew up dirt poor makes $150,000 a year. Just so you know that's about 3 times the average household income in the town I grew up in. He's not even smart, but he works hard. His mom still lived with her mother and made minimum wage with 3 kids. Dirt poor. All three kids are doing well. Then you have the lazy people still on welfare. I don't have one friend that's not lazy that can't make a good life for himself through hard work. So don't disrespect our Country and flag. Our Country hasn't failed black communities. The issue is the same regardless of race, Americans are becoming more and more lazy. They want everything handed to them and think it's a birth right. If you want something work hard for it. I have friends that travel weekly to Boston for work. Boston is almost 3 hours away. They want to make a $100,000 plus a year. Instead of handouts, perhaps the government shouldn't have shipped most good jobs overseas. The complete lack of jobs is the main issue. No one should be arguing over handouts. They should be arguing with our politicians of both parties who have worked with corporations to offshore most decent American jobs. The other problem is that there at least 10 times too many laws to begin with. The police are revenue collectors for the state. Their job is to collect money and put as many people as possible in privately owned prisons. This makes it so there are just too many interactions between police and people who aren't harming anyone. The solution is to get rid of all these needless laws. Of course that will never happen. But I'm still a dreamer. I mean they're at the point now where the "logic" used in politics today could justify putting people in prison before they break a law just to "keep people safe". The Government didn't ship jobs overseas, that just didn't happen at all. It's the results off free trade and comparative advantage. The Government stopped protecting certain industries like production jobs. So a ton of low skill production/manufacturing jobs went overseas. Which make sense in free trade. The only people that hurts are lazy people that wanted to barely pass high school that do a mindless job while making very good money. That won't happen in a global economy with free trade. Americans need to become more educated and take there schooling seriously. There are plenty of jobs for skilled workers. Where the Government has failed is in preparing our work force. Those manufacturing jobs that require no skill aren't coming back, they are replaced with better paying jobs that require skills and educated workers. People complain about jobs, but companies can't find workers. Most workers don't have the skills needed. The days of a family wage for an uneducated, unskilled workers are over. In the long-run it's not a bad thing. How does a state collect money by putting people in prison? It cost like $30,000 a year per inmate. Social programs cost less than that. We do have a huge issue with our prisons and laws. The war on drugs is so stupid. We need to be like the UK and help people not just lock them up. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 2, 2017 12:18:26 GMT -5
It's great that some people have the talent and disposition to escape from difficult circumstances and make a good life for themselves and their families. But for every one of those folks there are hundreds working for less than a living wage because they are simply average people who happened to be born into circumstances where there is little money, poor schools and lack of basic services. Meanwhile what do they see? Pirates in the financial industry crash the economy and walk away with millions, no one goes to jail despite committing massive fraud. Steve Mnuchin whose company was one of the worst offenders not only sold crap mortgages, but then ripped people off in the foreclosure problem sabotaging what little the government did even as it bailed out banks. And now he's the freaking Treasury Secretary who has the balls to say just today that the new tax plan won't benefit Trump although he won't (can't) supply the details. You say only 1 in 22 black people are shot by cops as opposed to one another, what the hell do you think the ratio for that is if you're white? And how many of those shot by police were unarmed? Or maybe you're all ok that you can work full time at WalMart (and other minimum wage places) and make so little that you're still eligible for food stamps, you all ok with that? What about any business model that has people work full time and not be even at the poverty line let alone above it? It's interesting that all those supposed lefty countries like France, Germany, Canada can provide health care for ALL their citizens, free college for those who qualify in many cases and a better overall quality of life than we have done. I'm not saying they are perfect and that the USA doesn't have a lot to recommend it, but I'd bet that if yo had a choice you'd all rather live under these left wing regimes than the oppressive right wing governments like Russia, China and the like where you don't have the right to a fair trail and the rule of law is pretty much nonexistent. And don't talk about the supposed left wing countries like Cuba or Venezuela because they are no country ruled by an autocrat can ever be considered a liberal, progressive state no matter how they try to dress it up with rhetoric. If you're honest with yourself you can see that many folks that live in poor communities, especially those people of color, may feel like they live in conditions closer to Russia than to Sweden and when they feel that the rule of law doesn't protect, well sometimes they may just have to take a knee, sure beats taking up a gun. I have zero problem with families working full-time that still need help. Mainly because they are passing down a culture of working hard to their children. At the same time in my area people play the system. They don't get married, women reports only her income and not that of man living there. I see this all the time, I've seen families do this that aren't even close to poor. They play the system. The idea that only certain poor people can overcome there circumstances is a culture thing and the biggest problem in this Country. It's just not true in our Country. But when parents pass that down to their children it creates this mess we have. You are poor and there's nothing you can do about it. That's BS! It's just the blame game, people not wanting to take responsibility. If there are no jobs in your area/state, then move to an area with more jobs. It's that easy. If your not willing to move, don't blame our Country. That's your choice. The quality of life on a minimum wage job greatly differs from city to city and state to state, as does the minimum wage itself. Anyone that thinks conditions in our Country are anything like Russia and China just don't know what they are talking about. Go live in those Countries and you will understand. The idea that every American doesn't have basic services is downright funny. Our poor on Welfare with no job have every basic service they need and live a better life than people that work in Countries like Russia and China. I spent 4 years in College with a roommate from China. He was from a wealthy family and he was amazed by our Country. The social programs to help people blew his mind. You can get grants for college, a grant for a job while in college, money for books. You pay no money till you are done with college. At the same time he was amazed how lazy so many Americans were. The fact that so many people barely tried in College blew his mind. |
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Post by swingingbunt on Oct 2, 2017 13:50:44 GMT -5
UMass, I'd be interested in learning your age and what you do for a living. I used to think just like you did when I was fresh out of college. I thought, "If I can do it, then anyone who doesn't do it just doesn't try hard enough."
Then I got into the real world. Became a special education teacher for students who are almost 100% living in poverty, and I finally realized that not everyone can just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." Many of the students I teach, and the students who attend my school have to have an absolutely perfect set of circumstances to succeed. Even then, they also need a lot of luck. So while it's not "impossible" to improve your lot in life, it basically seems that way for the the majority of the people that you would rather just assume are lazy.
But with that, I'll go ahead and bow out of this conversation. Good luck a figuring stuff out, though.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 2, 2017 21:56:04 GMT -5
Never thought I'd see someone try to equate taking a knee to non-POC using the n-word, but here we are... Why ? Two pieces of crap abusing their legal rights, one crapping on a race, one crapping on a country.  I'm also guessing that next election we're going to see how the majority feels. These demos are viewed here like an advancement for the cause, I view it as a giant step backwards. The Marine in that picture helped me have the right to express that opinion and again, this is what the left is supporting here: www.facebook.com/newlypress/videos/1897845940479778/The left needs to take a few minutes to look at what you are siding with. Check the facts. ADD: It appears that many people here seem to have some comprehension issues with the article UMass posted. It's pretty clear and doesn't need UMass to defend it. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 2, 2017 22:44:59 GMT -5
Instead of handouts, perhaps the government shouldn't have shipped most good jobs overseas. The complete lack of jobs is the main issue. No one should be arguing over handouts. They should be arguing with our politicians of both parties who have worked with corporations to offshore most decent American jobs. The other problem is that there at least 10 times too many laws to begin with. The police are revenue collectors for the state. Their job is to collect money and put as many people as possible in privately owned prisons. This makes it so there are just too many interactions between police and people who aren't harming anyone. The solution is to get rid of all these needless laws. Of course that will never happen. But I'm still a dreamer. I mean they're at the point now where the "logic" used in politics today could justify putting people in prison before they break a law just to "keep people safe". It's the results off free trade and comparative advantage. The Government stopped protecting certain industries like production jobs. So a ton of low skill production/manufacturing jobs went overseas. Which make sense in free trade. The only people that hurts are lazy people that wanted to barely pass high school that do a mindless job while making very good money. That won't happen in a global economy with free trade. Americans need to become more educated and take there schooling seriously. There are plenty of jobs for skilled workers. Where the Government has failed is in preparing our work force. Those manufacturing jobs that require no skill aren't coming back, they are replaced with better paying jobs that require skills and educated workers. People complain about jobs, but companies can't find workers. Most workers don't have the skills needed. The days of a family wage for an uneducated, unskilled workers are over. In the long-run it's not a bad thing. How does a state collect money by putting people in prison? It cost like $30,000 a year per inmate. Social programs cost less than that. We do have a huge issue with our prisons and laws. The war on drugs is so stupid. We need to be like the UK and help people not just lock them up. I'll totally disagree with the bolded portion. 10 years ago, the US biggest overseas market was SE Asia which makes sense because 2/3 of the worlds population resides there. America has a quality image and people were willing to pay the extra for the higher quality. During the Obama administration companies were allowed to have manufacturing done in China and it turned into a flood. You can can find companies like Westinghouse, Stanley, John Deere, etc., etc. (pretty much all of them) all over the place in the markets here but close to all of them are made in China (Timex is still American made). The stockholders of those companies are doing well but the American workers have lost their jobs. The Obama backed Oligarchy sold out the American worker. It's going to get worse, not better. China is now the second largest economy in the world and the Silk Route trade highway they are establishing goes directly to South America and Europe and will encompass the BRICKS countries.China has also been heavily courting the ASEAN countries as well. The 10 ASEAN countries have 650 million people 5 of which are on Price Waterhouse's top growth economies in the world including the top 2, Indonesia and The Philippines. Do you folks think that it was coincidental that when Duterte stood up to Obama, he was immediately unanimously elected ASEAN chairman and declared a 'Rock Star' in Japan ? Do you people know that the E7 and the G7 are now about equal economies ? This is the future we're talking about here. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 2, 2017 23:52:07 GMT -5
It's great that some people have the talent and disposition to escape from difficult circumstances and make a good life for themselves and their families. But for every one of those folks there are hundreds working for less than a living wage because they are simply average people who happened to be born into circumstances where there is little money, poor schools and lack of basic services. Meanwhile what do they see? Pirates in the financial industry crash the economy and walk away with millions, no one goes to jail despite committing massive fraud. Steve Mnuchin whose company was one of the worst offenders not only sold crap mortgages, but then ripped people off in the foreclosure problem sabotaging what little the government did even as it bailed out banks. And now he's the freaking Treasury Secretary who has the balls to say just today that the new tax plan won't benefit Trump although he won't (can't) supply the details. You say only 1 in 22 black people are shot by cops as opposed to one another, what the hell do you think the ratio for that is if you're white? And how many of those shot by police were unarmed? Or maybe you're all ok that you can work full time at WalMart (and other minimum wage places) and make so little that you're still eligible for food stamps, you all ok with that? What about any business model that has people work full time and not be even at the poverty line let alone above it? It's interesting that all those supposed lefty countries like France, Germany, Canada can provide health care for ALL their citizens, free college for those who qualify in many cases and a better overall quality of life than we have done. I'm not saying they are perfect and that the USA doesn't have a lot to recommend it, but I'd bet that if yo had a choice you'd all rather live under these left wing regimes than the oppressive right wing governments like Russia, China and the like where you don't have the right to a fair trail and the rule of law is pretty much nonexistent. And don't talk about the supposed left wing countries like Cuba or Venezuela because they are no country ruled by an autocrat can ever be considered a liberal, progressive state no matter how they try to dress it up with rhetoric. If you're honest with yourself you can see that many folks that live in poor communities, especially those people of color, may feel like they live in conditions closer to Russia than to Sweden and when they feel that the rule of law doesn't protect, well sometimes they may just have to take a knee, sure beats taking up a gun. Ahh, OK so if it's a dictatorship, it's considered right and if there is concern for the population of a country, it's left ? Those right wingers sure are hard core people eh ? Your view of the world seems quite antiquated. Democracy is not the only solution, especially leftist democracies which are pretty much going by the wayside, largely due to economic factors, as a wave of nationalist heads of state is sweeping the world. Exactly why do you think Brexit 2 happened ? (lol, Brexit 1 happened in 1776). Brexit happened because England didn't want to go down the same drain. How long before Germany doesn't want to be pulled down by Greece and Italy ? If you think America has problems, they are nothing compared to the problems of the countries you consider your nirvana. None of the countries you mentioned can even begin to compete with Singapore in terms of standard of living, average income, health care, education, % of millionaires, crime rates or drug problems. Oh, oops, it's a dictatorship with no freedom of press, state owned TV and radio and no public free speech rights, yet, it's easily the #1 preferred country for Filipino overseas workers. It's interesting that my Canadian relatives come to the USA for a lot of their minor health care in spite of having to pay for it.An example, an uncle who didn't want to wait 6 months on crutches for a knee operation. Your view of China is incredibly dated, I can only speak to the people I've met but they are seriously not unhappy campers. Chairman Mao died long ago. Here's a 26 year then and now of Shanghai  the same thing can be shown for Beijing. What American or European city has gone through this level of transformation ? The only other city in the world I can think of is Dubai, another dictatorship. In the Philippines where we've gone from a left oligarchy to a nationalist president, we've now passed free tuition at all non-private colleges and universities, free wifi for all large population areas and the house has unanimously passed universal zero copay health care for all Filipinos (It's expected to overwhelmingly pass the senate). Programs which didn't exist under the prior Liberal Party leadership. It's interesting that the US has dropped the words democracy and democratic from their UN Mission Statement. Neither how a government leans, left or right, nor it's structure democracy, dictatorship, oligarchy are the determining factors on how well off a population is. It's the view of those in power as to where the resources will be spent and the total resources they have available that's more important. In the case of the USA, they've decided spending trillions of dollars making war in the Middle East takes priority and Obama spent the most by a very wide margin yet, couldn't spend a few million eliminating N. Korea's nuclear program before they even had nukes. Brilliant.
What The F*** FactsVerified account @whattheffacts 22h22 hours ago
The world spent $1735 Billion on war in 2012. It would take $135 billion to eradicate global poverty. 2012, wasn't that about they heyday of leftist countries? Good job lefties, I wonder why you are losing power globally. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2017 1:18:58 GMT -5
UMass, I'd be interested in learning your age and what you do for a living. I used to think just like you did when I was fresh out of college. I thought, "If I can do it, then anyone who doesn't do it just doesn't try hard enough." Then I got into the real world. Became a special education teacher for students who are almost 100% living in poverty, and I finally realized that not everyone can just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." Many of the students I teach, and the students who attend my school have to have an absolutely perfect set of circumstances to succeed. Even then, they also need a lot of luck. So while it's not "impossible" to improve your lot in life, it basically seems that way for the the majority of the people that you would rather just assume are lazy. But with that, I'll go ahead and bow out of this conversation. Good luck a figuring stuff out, though. And you take that attitude to the classroom ? Gee, I see no problem there. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2017 9:05:40 GMT -5
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Post by swingingbunt on Oct 3, 2017 9:07:21 GMT -5
UMass, I'd be interested in learning your age and what you do for a living. I used to think just like you did when I was fresh out of college. I thought, "If I can do it, then anyone who doesn't do it just doesn't try hard enough." Then I got into the real world. Became a special education teacher for students who are almost 100% living in poverty, and I finally realized that not everyone can just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." Many of the students I teach, and the students who attend my school have to have an absolutely perfect set of circumstances to succeed. Even then, they also need a lot of luck. So while it's not "impossible" to improve your lot in life, it basically seems that way for the the majority of the people that you would rather just assume are lazy. But with that, I'll go ahead and bow out of this conversation. Good luck a figuring stuff out, though. And you take that attitude to the classroom ? Gee, I see no problem there. I guess I need help figuring out what attitude I have that needs adjusting (or maybe you aren't clear on what special education is?).... Sure, I don't call my kids lazy for not being able to do things on their own like a good Republican, but I do work everyday to give the kids I teach the tools they need to be successful after their schooling is over, and help provide them with the one hope they have of a better life. So please, enlighten me on what I need to do that's better. Should I pretend that most of my kids won't end up living at a group home when they're adults and instead act like they'll all become engineers one day? Would that better prepare them? Or should I just sit around all day and not help them because, "damnit, people need to help themselves"....? I need specifics man. I've spent my entire adult life educating myself, learning from my mistakes and trying every single day to better the lives of the kids I teach, but I'm not above suggestions from strangers with absolutely no background in education other than to question teachers for the jobs they do. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2017 11:33:36 GMT -5
UMass, I'd be interested in learning your age and what you do for a living. I used to think just like you did when I was fresh out of college. I thought, "If I can do it, then anyone who doesn't do it just doesn't try hard enough." Then I got into the real world. Became a special education teacher for students who are almost 100% living in poverty, and I finally realized that not everyone can just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." Many of the students I teach, and the students who attend my school have to have an absolutely perfect set of circumstances to succeed. Even then, they also need a lot of luck. So while it's not "impossible" to improve your lot in life, it basically seems that way for the the majority of the people that you would rather just assume are lazy. But with that, I'll go ahead and bow out of this conversation. Good luck a figuring stuff out, though. I am 35 and have spent my whole career in banking. I spent a large amount of time as a loss mitigation specialist(started right before the mortgage crisis) and for a short period in my early years I collected consumer loans. So I have spent years talking to people about money, Jobs and overall lifes problems. Then helping them get through hard times. Just so you know I was in special ed until my freshman year of high school until I said enough is enough. It was the worst program ever and was holding me back. Taking me away from my core classes and doing nothing for me. They said I was going to ruin my life if I left the program. I have a severe case of dyslexia. Thank god I had a wonderful mother. She let me know people like Tom Cruise had the exact same thing. It wasn't a death sentenced, you just needed to do what you were good at. I always got work hard and you can do anything you want, not life sucks you can't become anything. I sure hope that's what you are teaching your students, because even one teacher believing in a kid can change his life! Our schools need to help students reach their potential, not just push them through the system. It all starts with family culture. How your parents prepare you for life. They can say you're going to be nothing, life sucks and deck is stacked against you or you can be anything you want through hard work. It's not easy, but life isn't easy. It's what you make of it. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2017 11:44:29 GMT -5
And you take that attitude to the classroom ? Gee, I see no problem there. I guess I need help figuring out what attitude I have that needs adjusting (or maybe you aren't clear on what special education is?).... Sure, I don't call my kids lazy for not being able to do things on their own like a good Republican, but I do work everyday to give the kids I teach the tools they need to be successful after their schooling is over, and help provide them with the one hope they have of a better life. So please, enlighten me on what I need to do that's better. Should I pretend that most of my kids won't end up living at a group home when they're adults and instead act like they'll all become engineers one day? Would that better prepare them? Or should I just sit around all day and not help them because, "damnit, people need to help themselves"....? I need specifics man. I've spent my entire adult life educating myself, learning from my mistakes and trying every single day to better the lives of the kids I teach, but I'm not above suggestions from strangers with absolutely no background in education other than to question teachers for the jobs they do. My original point was that you sound like you think they can't succeed no matter how hard they try, because of racism. Great attitude to teach kids. Now, about your assumptions and the roadblocks. Your scenario would assume that a large portion of the employers are racist. That's total b.s.. Yes racism exists but it's the minority not the majority. Your Republican remark shows the level of your ignorance and I thank the good lord that my kids have competent teachers. They are both girls and are being taught with the attitude that they can accomplish whatever they aspire to accomplish, our teachers don't inflict sexism limitations on them. Just because you are an educator doesn't make you a good educator. Remember, half of all the educators are below average educators. I find it difficult to believe that Cynicism of your students success is a positive trait. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2017 11:58:18 GMT -5
The Government didn't ship jobs overseas, that just didn't happen at all. It's the results off free trade and comparative advantage. The Government stopped protecting certain industries like production jobs. So a ton of low skill production/manufacturing jobs went overseas. Which make sense in free trade. The only people that hurts are lazy people that wanted to barely pass high school that do a mindless job while making very good money. That won't happen in a global economy with free trade. Americans need to become more educated and take there schooling seriously. There are plenty of jobs for skilled workers. Where the Government has failed is in preparing our work force. Those manufacturing jobs that require no skill aren't coming back, they are replaced with better paying jobs that require skills and educated workers. People complain about jobs, but companies can't find workers. Most workers don't have the skills needed. The days of a family wage for an uneducated, unskilled workers are over. In the long-run it's not a bad thing. How does a state collect money by putting people in prison? It cost like $30,000 a year per inmate. Social programs cost less than that. We do have a huge issue with our prisons and laws. The war on drugs is so stupid. We need to be like the UK and help people not just lock them up. I'll totally disagree with the bolded portion. 10 years ago, the US biggest overseas market was SE Asia which makes sense because 2/3 of the worlds population resides there. America has a quality image and people were willing to pay the extra for the higher quality. During the Obama administration companies were allowed to have manufacturing done in China and it turned into a flood. You can can find companies like Westinghouse, Stanley, John Deere, etc., etc. (pretty much all of them) all over the place in the markets here but close to all of them are made in China (Timex is still American made). The stockholders of those companies are doing well but the American workers have lost their jobs. The Obama backed Oligarchy sold out the American worker. It's going to get worse, not better. China is now the second largest economy in the world and the Silk Route trade highway they are establishing goes directly to South America and Europe and will encompass the BRICKS countries.China has also been heavily courting the ASEAN countries as well. The 10 ASEAN countries have 650 million people 5 of which are on Price Waterhouse's top growth economies in the world including the top 2, Indonesia and The Philippines. Do you folks think that it was coincidental that when Duterte stood up to Obama, he was immediately unanimously elected ASEAN chairman and declared a 'Rock Star' in Japan ? Do you people know that the E7 and the G7 are now about equal economies ? This is the future we're talking about here. So how did the Government ship jobs overseas? You just said they allowed companies to move, that's just not the same. They moved because of free trade, no or limited tariffs on products produced in other Countries. The Government didn't ship jobs anywhere, they just created an economy in which it made sense for companies to relocate certain factories. Nevermind this all started under Bill Clinton and with his free trade agreements. In a global economy with free trade companies will move from country to country to find the best workforce to produce their product. Everyone loves going to wally world and buying things that are dirt cheap, but then complains about jobs. Those low level manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. In fact more and more will keep going overseas. The manufacturing jobs in this Country will be for more complex things that a Country like China can't easily produce. In time China will experience the same thing we are currently going through and those low level manufacturing jobs will move once again. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2017 12:14:55 GMT -5
I'll totally disagree with the bolded portion. 10 years ago, the US biggest overseas market was SE Asia which makes sense because 2/3 of the worlds population resides there. America has a quality image and people were willing to pay the extra for the higher quality. During the Obama administration companies were allowed to have manufacturing done in China and it turned into a flood. You can can find companies like Westinghouse, Stanley, John Deere, etc., etc. (pretty much all of them) all over the place in the markets here but close to all of them are made in China (Timex is still American made). The stockholders of those companies are doing well but the American workers have lost their jobs. The Obama backed Oligarchy sold out the American worker. It's going to get worse, not better. China is now the second largest economy in the world and the Silk Route trade highway they are establishing goes directly to South America and Europe and will encompass the BRICKS countries.China has also been heavily courting the ASEAN countries as well. The 10 ASEAN countries have 650 million people 5 of which are on Price Waterhouse's top growth economies in the world including the top 2, Indonesia and The Philippines. Do you folks think that it was coincidental that when Duterte stood up to Obama, he was immediately unanimously elected ASEAN chairman and declared a 'Rock Star' in Japan ? Do you people know that the E7 and the G7 are now about equal economies ? This is the future we're talking about here. So how did the Government ship jobs overseas? You just said they allowed companies to move, that's just not the same. They moved because of free trade, no or limited tariffs on products produced in other Countries. The Government didn't ship jobs anywhere, they just created an economy in which it made sense for companies to relocate certain factories. Nevermind this all started under Bill Clinton and with his free trade agreements. In a global economy with free trade companies will move from country to country to find the best workforce to produce their product. Everyone loves going to wally world and buying things that are dirt cheap, but then complains about jobs. Those low level manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. In fact more and more will keep going overseas. The manufacturing jobs in this Country will be for more complex things that a Country like China can't easily produce. In time China will experience the same thing we are currently going through and those low level manufacturing jobs will move once again. They didn't move factories. There are no American factories in China. They simply sold their brand name and market for royalties. Appliances, televisions, tools, the whole 9 yards. When I first started building my house, pretty much everything I bought was American made. Now I buy Japanese or German but even the German made brands are starting to disappear. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2017 12:36:28 GMT -5
So how did the Government ship jobs overseas? You just said they allowed companies to move, that's just not the same. They moved because of free trade, no or limited tariffs on products produced in other Countries. The Government didn't ship jobs anywhere, they just created an economy in which it made sense for companies to relocate certain factories. Nevermind this all started under Bill Clinton and with his free trade agreements. In a global economy with free trade companies will move from country to country to find the best workforce to produce their product. Everyone loves going to wally world and buying things that are dirt cheap, but then complains about jobs. Those low level manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. In fact more and more will keep going overseas. The manufacturing jobs in this Country will be for more complex things that a Country like China can't easily produce. In time China will experience the same thing we are currently going through and those low level manufacturing jobs will move once again. They didn't move factories. There are no American factories in China. They simply sold their brand name and market for royalties. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2017 12:44:42 GMT -5
This is a list of companies who either own factories, or have contract factories producing their products in China.I wish their list showed each category. there's a huge difference and it's the second category I'm referring to. Look how big that list is, American brand, made in China products are everywhere in the Philippines and I assume throughout SE Asia. ADD: Interesting site, thx for finding it. From the USA tab:
Our products are made in China and other countries, not in America.
Approximately 80% of everything in your home and office are now made in China.
Our polluting factories are no longer in the United States, ...they are in China.
Americans have lost most of our "new" pollution because we manufacture very little in America anymore.
We are loosing pollution sources, but also our factories, jobs, and finally our global economic strength.
America the Beautiful, is now Made in China, and Absolutely Irreversible...ADD2: It's interesting that there are a lot of food companies on the list. Dole and Del Monte also have a large presence in the Philippines but they don't manufacture here, just buy and ship but things the USA isn't overly good at like sugar, bananas and pineapples. I see their ships all the time since I'm across the Bay from Sasa Port. One of the members of our church is a foreman at a Dole Banana Farm but it isn't owned by Dole, it's Filipino owned but their crop is pre-purchased by Dole and is exclusive to them. |
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Oct 3, 2017 13:35:05 GMT -5
My point about Russia, China and other autocratic regimes wasn't a focus on their economies, it was about the rule of law and freedom to protest the government. I am not an anti capitalist but do believe it needs to be limited by strong regulation that benefits the populace and protects them from the excessive (and essential) amorality that is unrestrained capitalism. You can post pictures of wounded soldiers all you want, but if you fail to understand that attempts to stifle the freedom to protest the governments actions or performance by using the symbol of that government (in this the flag) is the essential difference between the freedom they fought for and places like China, Russia and, indeed, the Philippines where laws don't protect that protest you have missed the point. I honor those same soldiers for what sacrifice for ALL of us and, in fact, when someone takes a knee at the playing of the National Anthem and isn't hauled away to jail, that is the ultimate proof of the measure of that sacrifice.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2017 13:54:21 GMT -5
My point about Russia, China and other autocratic regimes wasn't a focus on their economies, it was about the rule of law and freedom to protest the government. I am not an anti capitalist but do believe it needs to be limited by strong regulation that benefits the populace and protects them from the excessive (and essential) amorality that is unrestrained capitalism. You can post pictures of wounded soldiers all you want, but if you fail to understand that attempts to stifle the freedom to protest the governments actions or performance by using the symbol of that government (in this the flag) is the essential difference between the freedom they fought for and places like China, Russia and, indeed, the Philippines where laws don't protect that protest you have missed the point. I honor those same soldiers for what sacrifice for ALL of us and, in fact, when someone takes a knee at the playing of the National Anthem and isn't hauled away to jail, that is the ultimate proof of the measure of that sacrifice. The fact that they aren't being hauled to jail because of their rights also doesn't mean they aren't pieces of crap which is my opinion. I also hope that a good portion are teammates of Kaepernick in the near future which is the owners right. Having that opinion is my right. If the fans want to boo and boycott, that's their right. I have no issues whatsoever about rights. My point about other forms of government is that not everybody wants to have an American style government. If that's what you want fine, it's pretty much what I want but if the people of Singapore, China and Russia don't want that I have no problems with that either. Americans in general think they have some sort of God given directive to meddle in other country's internal affairs. It doesn't. I also have no clue about why you include the Philippines. They have pretty much the same rights that you do including the right to protest, which they do. Like the USA, they follow English law. |
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Post by swingingbunt on Oct 3, 2017 13:58:30 GMT -5
I guess I need help figuring out what attitude I have that needs adjusting (or maybe you aren't clear on what special education is?).... Sure, I don't call my kids lazy for not being able to do things on their own like a good Republican, but I do work everyday to give the kids I teach the tools they need to be successful after their schooling is over, and help provide them with the one hope they have of a better life. So please, enlighten me on what I need to do that's better. Should I pretend that most of my kids won't end up living at a group home when they're adults and instead act like they'll all become engineers one day? Would that better prepare them? Or should I just sit around all day and not help them because, "damnit, people need to help themselves"....? I need specifics man. I've spent my entire adult life educating myself, learning from my mistakes and trying every single day to better the lives of the kids I teach, but I'm not above suggestions from strangers with absolutely no background in education other than to question teachers for the jobs they do. My original point was that you sound like you think they can't succeed no matter how hard they try, because of racism. Great attitude to teach kids. Now, about your assumptions and the roadblocks. Your scenario would assume that a large portion of the employers are racist. That's total b.s.. Yes racism exists but it's the minority not the majority. Your Republican remark shows the level of your ignorance and I thank the good lord that my kids have competent teachers. They are both girls and are being taught with the attitude that they can accomplish whatever they aspire to accomplish, our teachers don't inflict sexism limitations on them. Just because you are an educator doesn't make you a good educator. Remember, half of all the educators are below average educators. I find it difficult to believe that Cynicism of your students success is a positive trait. Where did I say the kids I teach will fail because of race or sex? Or that employers won't hire someone for those reasons? That's quite the straw man you've built up there. Seriously. Bravo. I told my story because someone else said that if people don't succeed in life, e.g. don't need assistance, can completely switch careers and move states on a whim, etc... It's entirely their fault and they have literally no one else to blame but their lazy self. My job is living proof that that won't happen with a certain population of the country no matter how many bootstraps we yell at them for not pulling up. The kids I teach do not have dyslexia and they don't get to decide one day that they would rather not be in a sped program. The kids I service will need assistance for the rest of their lives no matter who stands in front of their classroom. Or you can go on pretending that your bullshit world view is superior to everyone else's. It won't bother me one bit. |
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Post by jmei on Oct 3, 2017 14:31:32 GMT -5
This thread has taken a turn for the worst, which is why I have locked it. Reminder to folks that threads in this subforum are subject to the forum ground rules, including the parts about being civil to each other and maintaining an intelligent level of posting.
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