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Post by James Dunne on Jan 8, 2018 15:35:24 GMT -5
Thank god If you believed that this was about a direct comparison of Brentz to Judge or Ortiz than you have been out of the thrust if my metaphor from the git go.
That's not what a metaphor is. A metaphor is if you were like "that Bryce Brentz is a real moose" and then I brought in his lack of antlers and you were all "I didn't mean an actual moose." You brought up the comparison, and then, when challenged, you compared them as baseball players again. You can't shield your argument from criticism by sticking an "I'm not comparing them, but" before doing exactly that. You should begin by not using a single postseason series to compare pitching staffs. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 8, 2018 17:00:42 GMT -5
I keep laughing at the thought of Brentz being the next JDM late bloomer. There was a reason for this post.  |
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Post by jiant2520 on Jan 8, 2018 17:46:03 GMT -5
Me, if Martinez is not obtained, I'd really prefer to see Brenz given a fair shot before a trade. I like Brentz too, but if we can get someone on a one yr deal, that is proven, I prefer that. I like Brentz as a platoon guy... I'd prefer McCutchin any day over him. That is a huge down grade from Martinez to Brentz.... Again, Brentz as a platoon option, give him all the ST at bats we can, see if he translates, but do not count on him as a regular player to start the year. And definitely do not consider him the consolation if we miss out on JD Martinez. I think we all agree, Brentz is not Judge or Ortiz, nor is anyone in the organization thinking he may become such.... I hope. Also, I think Brentz is closer to "never making it" than he is to "becoming the next Ortiz". |
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Post by carlyaz on Jan 8, 2018 18:52:21 GMT -5
Why not trade Hanley for Matt Kemp?
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Post by benfromma on Jan 8, 2018 18:57:56 GMT -5
Need a power bat, lefty reliever, and another starter (if moderately successful Rodriquez could be the lefty reliever)
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Post by jiant2520 on Jan 8, 2018 19:01:21 GMT -5
Why not trade Hanley for Matt Kemp? Can I ask why? |
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 8, 2018 19:04:22 GMT -5
Why not trade Hanley for Matt Kemp? The reason you don't want to do that is simple. Kemp is due 2 more years at a little less that $22 million per. Ramirez has one year at a little more than $22 million, and then a team option for 2019. The Sox are going to need all the cap space they can get. Kemp's contract is not the way to do that. You can look up Cot's Baseball Contracts to get the information on team and individual salary. Very useful. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:06:38 GMT -5
Why not trade Hanley for Matt Kemp? Good question . But Kemp is guaranteed money in 2019 . Hanley has a vesting option after 497 at bats for 2019. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:08:22 GMT -5
Why not trade Hanley for Matt Kemp? Can I ask why? Good first post. Welcome to Sox Prospects |
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Post by p23w on Jan 8, 2018 19:19:10 GMT -5
Thank god If you believed that this was about a direct comparison of Brentz to Judge or Ortiz than you have been out of the thrust if my metaphor from the git go.
[ /quote]That's not what a metaphor is. A metaphor is if you were like "that Bryce Brentz is a real moose" and then I brought in his lack of antlers and you were all "I didn't mean an actual moose." You brought up the comparison, and then, when challenged, you compared them as baseball players again. You can't shield your argument from criticism by sticking an "I'm not comparing them, but" before doing exactly that.
23 hours ago jimed14 said: I keep laughing at the thought of Brentz being the next JDM late bloomer. "Think of Bryce as the next Aaron Judge then. Or C(K)hris Davis, or the next coming of David Ortiz" was my reply
Your interpretation is/was lacking from the git go. Brentz has had better offensive minor league seasons than any of the hitters I mentioned with the possible exception of Chris Davis. Age is factor that you have injected into this discussion. To draw the conclusion that Brentz will have equivalent major league results was your perogative but totally missed the context of the discussion.
Read more: forum.soxprospects.com/thread/4239/2018-red-sox-roster-building#ixzz53dkVOVbYYou should begin by not using a single postseason series to compare pitching staffs. [/b]
I could just as easily made it the closing point to my argument. The fact that the last TWO post seasons saw this team win only one game; does that give the point more credence? And two seasons ago we had a true anchor in the line up. Perhaps the fact that the RS added a pitcher (Sale) to the 2016 team is the reason for the improved post season performance, and not the fact that we lost David Ortiz. Since you have posted in response to not posting on this topic perhaps you will do the courtesy of starting a new thread with a clear focus as to how you believe the RS can win the division and.or advance in the playoffs.
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Post by carlyaz on Jan 8, 2018 19:24:26 GMT -5
Why not trade Hanley for Matt Kemp? Good question . But Kemp is guaranteed money in 2019 . Hanley has a vesting option after 497 at bats for 2019. if |
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Post by carlyaz on Jan 8, 2018 19:26:27 GMT -5
If you keep H he’s probably going to cost the same as Kemp
and Kemp’s a better hitter right now.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jan 8, 2018 19:41:16 GMT -5
Unless things go totally crazy for the Sox, there's no way they let him get the PA needed for his option to vest, so he'll be done after this season. Not only would Kemp be guaranteed an extra year, he hasn't been very good offensively since 2014. Kemp has been 109/109/100 WRC+ the last three years. Hanley mashed in 2016 and was clearly bothered by injury for much of 2017. There's nowhere close to a guarantee that he'll hit well this season, but if he doesn't, then you can easily just move on
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Post by carlyaz on Jan 8, 2018 19:45:33 GMT -5
Kemp hit 35 hrs with 113 ops+ in 2016, that’s not mashing?
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Post by jiant2520 on Jan 8, 2018 19:52:57 GMT -5
They are similar hitters, one has a guaranteed two years remaining and the other has one maybe two, depending on the option. They will both mostly DH in Boston. I just don't see how the Sox improve in this deal?
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Post by jiant2520 on Jan 8, 2018 19:56:26 GMT -5
I don't see why they would consider this deal really, as it does not save money or make the team better. LA would do it, ensure Hanley never gets to 497, then save 22 million dollars next year, a year of good players in free agency...
Kemp could actually keep us from signing a good player next off-season to be honest.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 8, 2018 19:56:45 GMT -5
Kemp hit 35 hrs with 113 ops+ in 2016, that’s not mashing? Hanley mashed in 2016, too. But the bottom line is that wasting $20 something million on Kemp for the 2019 season is a mistake. I'd much rather see the Red Sox have that money in hand for the 2018-2019 offseason so they can spend it on something they need. With Hanley, there's no way he's getting 497 plate appearances unless he has an absolute monster season and with Moreland around that's unlikely he'll get the chance. So would you rather have Kemp who is no better than Hanley in 2018 and then have Kemp in 2019, probably sitting on the bench if they sign JDM, or would you rather have that money available to help the team? To me, it's an absolute no-brainer. You don't trade for Kemp. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 8, 2018 20:01:58 GMT -5
I’m just glad the question was asked for a subject change.
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Post by carlyaz on Jan 8, 2018 20:06:45 GMT -5
If we don’t sign JD who is going to hit homers,
If we’re banking on all those guys that didn’t hit homer’s
last year suddenly bashing I think we’re barking up a fruitless
tree. I like Bruce as a plan B but he probably makes us too
lefthanded unless Handley would not bitch and grip about having
to platoon.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jan 8, 2018 20:15:21 GMT -5
Fangraphs has Kemp as the 82nd best hitter in baseball by wrc+ in 2016 and 62nd in OPS. And I see nothing to show why he would have any better of a chance at being a positive offensive weapon than Hanley, let alone when you'd have to guarantee him more money.
Anyways, Kemp isn't happening, unless they magically find someone who is willing to absorb the entirety of Hanley's contract, and even then, I still don't think Kemp is the way to go.
I don't think they need a guy to hit HRs. They need a good/elite hitter, whether that hitter hits HRs or not
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Post by dirtdog on Jan 8, 2018 23:11:30 GMT -5
Are people really talking about Brentz making some kind of impact on the major league roster next year? 25th man maybe. Impact doubt it.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jan 8, 2018 23:28:02 GMT -5
You could probably trade nothing and land Kemp at his current contract. I'd almost guarantee that. I think I read that his injuries are so bad he may not even be an mlb throwaway player at minimum contract level. So let's forget about Kemp.
If we can't land Martinez, I'd like to see them throw that some money at Arrieta or some other move but unfortunately, Boras has a lot of the top talent. I don't think Arrieta is going to get Price money but he has had a sub 3.53 ERA the last 4 years in a row and is still probably a very consistent starter even with the recent downward trend. Unfortunately Arrieta, Hosmer and Martinez are all Boras clients. Ergo why we are waiting this out. It would be nice to move on to a combination of more cost effective talent rather than play Boras's game at this level. Some combination of Nunez and relief pitching or whoever but Boras is clearly in the driver's seat. He's almost in a monopoly level position this year.
This really stinks.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 8, 2018 23:53:20 GMT -5
You could probably trade nothing and land Kemp at his current contract. I'd almost guarantee that. I think I read that his injuries are so bad he may not even be an mlb throwaway player at minimum contract level. So let's forget about Kemp. If we can't land Martinez, I'd like to see them throw that some money at Arrieta or some other move but unfortunately, Boras has a lot of the top talent. I don't think Arrieta is going to get Price money but he has had a sub 3.53 ERA the last 4 years in a row and is still probably a very consistent starter even with the recent downward trend. Unfortunately Arrieta, Hosmer and Martinez are all Boras clients. Ergo why we are waiting this out. It would be nice to move on to a combination of more cost effective talent rather than play Boras's game at this level. Some combination of Nunez and relief pitching or whoever but Boras is clearly in the driver's seat. He's almost in a monopoly level position this year. This really stinks. Not that I disagree because I don't and it does stink but I think Boras is not winning this time around. With some of the big money teams staying out of it he doesn't have the market he usually does. I think what he has promised some guys isn't going to happen and he is going to end up looking bad. Their is a big difference between 7/200 and 6/150 but he might not even get that and shouldn't. Sox at 5/125 would be fair for all involved and historically an overpay by the Sox. I happen to think he could be worth the cost for 5 maybe 6, 45 hrs in 120 games is nice to think about. I would love to see Boras with some mud in his eyes and it could happen. |
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Post by Canseco on Jan 9, 2018 9:07:57 GMT -5
Given the need to lock up some of our own guys in the not-too-distant future, a guy like Jay Bruce makes more sense to me than JDM. Yes, the latter will likely outproduce the former, but a capable corner OF backup/DH platoon has value on this team. Also, the way he locked into driving the ball to left-center in Cleveland has me salivating when factoring in Fenway. Fewer years, less money, more flexibility, better defensive option.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 9, 2018 9:28:59 GMT -5
I cannot imagine that Bruce would sign up for a platoon DH/4th OF role when he has a choice of playing full time.
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