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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 16, 2017 22:10:00 GMT -5
Jaylen Brown is having a hell of a game. Making FTs too, this is great.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Nov 16, 2017 22:31:22 GMT -5
Man, Smart is amazing on D, but he looks so, so lost on offense sometimes.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 16, 2017 22:40:09 GMT -5
Wow. Signature win right there...
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Nov 16, 2017 22:40:34 GMT -5
God, this game is amazing, this team is amazing. I could not have conceptualized this game after the Hayward injury. Tatum at 19 hitting huge FTs with the game on the line.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 16, 2017 22:42:27 GMT -5
14, don't let the door hit you on the way out golden state.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 16, 2017 22:50:38 GMT -5
I'm trying my best not to get too irrationally hyped here, but I'm pretty certain I learned something watching this game: the defense is REAL. They remind me a bit of the 2004 Pistons team that didn't quite lead the league in defense, but they could absolutely stop you when they needed to. Incredible defense, incredible achievement, the rest of the league is officially on notice so it's only getting harder from here. But the defense is f*&%$ing real!
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Post by telson13 on Nov 16, 2017 22:57:28 GMT -5
This team is a no-joke juggernaut right now. Kudos to Dealin' Danny, he's been on fire just as much as the guys on the court. Love these guys.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 16, 2017 23:09:19 GMT -5
Brown with the game of his life.
Tatum with the last 2 free throws to ice the game.
Irving with 9 points I think in the forth quarter.
Golden State averaging well over 100 points a game on the year, got held to way under that tonight.
What a team.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 16, 2017 23:21:56 GMT -5
I had the good fortune of watching nearly all of Tatum's games at Duke last year - starting injured, he just continued to get better and better...I was so happy the C's went for him in the draft. Irving was a great one and done Dukie also (he was injured as well, but showed what he was about before it happened).
I went to a local bar to watch the game...talk about intense - and I loved every second.
Not sure the defense can get much better - but despite this great winning streak, the offense does have room to improve.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2017 7:02:33 GMT -5
No pressure kid
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2017 7:11:50 GMT -5
I love this team it’s fun to watch and they are really good but A LOT is going right for them and i feel a correction may be coming. How long can they keep going mad effort every game? Is their defense causing teams to miss these open looks or are they getting lucky or is it both? Offensively, they can’t keep shooting so poorly as a group and keep winning.
Here’s the thing tho. They are a brand new team still trying to learn to play together. It’s crazy to say since they are 14-2 but they are only 16 games into a season where they have 4 new starters and 10 new players. They are playing 6 rookies and Brown so they literally have guys learning to play together and learning to play in the league. Add to the fact that their best all around player, who’s also new, was lost 5 mins into the season and Morris missed the majority of the Pre-season and you have a team that’s even further behind. In realty they should be struggling to find their rhythm so the fact they are out of sorts on offense totally makes sense.
I’ve decided to just enjoy the ride and have no expectations.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 17, 2017 7:48:25 GMT -5
The lack of offense actually makes me feel better about this team. The fact that they can win close games without it is a positive. Sure lack of offense could be the main reason they lose in the playoffs (especially against elite scoring teams like Golden State), but they will win a bunch on defense alone too.
The luck they're running into might be a bit on their side, but if they start scoring more, there might not be as much of a correction as one might think. Kyrie has been a shell of himself offensively to start the year. I know he's going to turn it up into a new level and carry the Celtics at a lot of points in the season.
I think we could be looking at a 55+ win team here. 50+ wins for sure.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2017 8:16:50 GMT -5
I don’t like all the NBA Finals favorite talk. I know it’s inevitable but it’s premature. Really, the most we can say is this team is better positioned than they were last year to grow into a Title team (taking Hayward into consideration) and that they are better than expected after the injury.
Last night should be a reminder that Tatum is very much a rookie and big games are different than other games. The playoffs will be last night times 10. It’s also a reminder that he adapts and grows quickly but still.
Sorry feeling the need to temper expectations today.
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Post by jmei on Nov 17, 2017 9:50:15 GMT -5
In many ways, they were fortunate last night-- Golden State missed a lot of shots that they usually make, and the Celtics were the beneficiaries on a number of close calls by the officials. But it's a really good win nonetheless for reasons already discussed. Brown's ability to bother guys like Curry and Durant with his length was an eye-opener. Last year, his defense was more potential than reality, and he's really improved things like footwork and not being too jumpy (staying down on pump fakes, not getting beat back-door, etc.) and off-ball awareness. He just turned 21 in October, continues to improve most facets of his game, and the sky's the limit with him. Smart's struggles driving to the basket continues to be a little confounding. For some reason, even when he gets a step on guys, he seems unable to just go up and finish at the rim. He's not a leaper, but he should be long enough and strong enough to put his shoulder in their chest and finish over them, as he did so well in college. As it is, he relies on trying to draw fouls and has a hard time finishing any contested shot in the restricted area. He deserves heavy rotation minutes despite his scoring impotence (his passing is huge for a team that lacks other shot-creators on the second unit-- see here for details), but it's frustrating to see him have the ball in his hands in crunch time and just flail at the rim trying to draw fouls. Kyrie's defense has been amazing, but I think he could be a little more ball-dominant on offense. It's not part of Stevens' offensive philosophy, but there are times where he can just beat his man off-the-dribble one on one when the ball gets swung to him (rather than waiting for a pick to come and getting trapped). He's also improved his distributing a little but could get better on that end-- he's still not comfortable making those cross-court passes to the guy in the opposite corner on a consistent basis (his height is a disadvantage there).
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 17, 2017 10:14:59 GMT -5
Anyone else notice how Marcus Smart came out at the last minute only to go right back in? I feel like the only purpose of that was for Stevens to say to him "Just. Play. Defense."
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 17, 2017 10:48:09 GMT -5
So admittedly, first game that I caught most of this season. Scattered thoughts:
1) Sign me up for seven games of that, please.
2) Gutsy, gritty win. They could've packed it in very easily.
3) The defense was marvelous, but Steph Curry was clearly not all the way back. He's not going 3 for 14 the next time they play - that wasn't all defense.
4) After last year's team, it's so weird to see REBOUNDING on this team. It felt like last year's team had 4 on the perimeter and nobody crashing about 95% of the time. Was wonderful to see Brown crashing the paint on offense, among others.
5) Speaking of Brown, incredible game, especially when you consider that HIS BEST FRIEND DIED on Wednesday.http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21440976/jaylen-brown-boston-celtics-played-heavy-heart-best-friend-death
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2017 11:53:28 GMT -5
So admittedly, first game that I caught most of this season. Scattered thoughts: 1) Sign me up for seven games of that, please. 2) Gutsy, gritty win. They could've packed it in very easily. 3) The defense was marvelous, but Steph Curry was clearly not all the way back. He's not going 3 for 14 the next time they play - that wasn't all defense. 4) After last year's team, it's so weird to see REBOUNDING on this team. It felt like last year's team had 4 on the perimeter and nobody crashing about 95% of the time. Was wonderful to see Brown crashing the paint on offense, among others. 5) Speaking of Brown, incredible game, especially when you consider that HIS BEST FRIEND DIED on Wednesday.http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21440976/jaylen-brown-boston-celtics-played-heavy-heart-best-friend-death Any death is rough, but his friend committed suicide, from what I heard and that has to be even more difficult.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2017 13:53:13 GMT -5
Anyone else notice how Marcus Smart came out at the last minute only to go right back in? I feel like the only purpose of that was for Stevens to say to him "Just. Play. Defense." They do this all the time in basketball. It’s an offense / defense substitution. So for Smart they take him out when we have the ball and sub him back in immediately for defense. You can do it as the end of games when you know there will be timeouts and stoppages.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2017 15:12:46 GMT -5
This is why I love a team built around D. It's like a football team that just wears the other team out. What is this the 3rd or 4th time they have staged a big comeback. You wear the other team down. You make them fight for every point. 97 points was the Warriors low before this game, they had 88 points.
You can say we got lucky because Curry was off, but look at Irving. He won't go 4-16 in many games. Our bench was 2 for 19, with Smart going 0 for 7 and Rozier going 1 for 5. Those two do this every now and then, but over 7 games that won't be the norm. Even Smart isn't that bad every game.
We won't be an offensive juggernaut without Hayward, but this team will get better as the season goes along. As good as Irving has been, it still seems he is learning to be the top guy and in a way the only real option. As with Thomas he should just keep getting better and increase his efficiency in our offense over time. They only have like 5 games with Morris playing. Tatum just got a huge lesson and will learn from it. Brown is just starting to do his thing game in and game out. That Warrior team is the exact same team from last year besides Young and Bell.
I really can't wait to see this team at the end of the year. Tatum will be a different player then. A guy like Semi should improve his offense as he gets more in rhythm. Who knows what Brown could be doing by then. I still have faith that even Rozier will improve his shot selection as he gets used to heavy playing time. Smart is really the only guy have little faith in that he will improve his offensive game. In a way he just looks lost. Like he keeps trying to find what works and just can't. He seems to be going backwards instead of improving. He needs to try and score instead of just trying to get fouls. They need to bring in a Vet PG that was like Pierce. A guy that wasn't a top notch athlete, but used moves to get good shots and draw fouls. He has learned from guys like Rondo, Thomas and now Irving. Thing is he can't come close to doing what those guys can. He seems scared to use his strength because he keeps getting charging calls. He needs to learn how to use it and not just go full steam into the lane. He won't ever be great, but right now he seems to be playing below even his abilities. He seems to be the one player that Stevens can't make look awesome or even decent.
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Post by jmei on Nov 17, 2017 17:06:35 GMT -5
He won't ever be great, but right now he seems to be playing below even his abilities. He seems to be the one player that Stevens can't make look awesome or even decent. Despite being one of the worst statistical shooters in the league (both from range and at the rim), Smart is one of the Celtics' most important offensive players because of his ability to draw help and pass out to the roll man, shooters and cutters. See here: www.cbssports.com/nba/news/marcus-smart-shooting-percentage-stats-boston-celtics-vs-golden-state-warriors/He also remains an elite defender, and his ability to credibly defend multiple positions is critical to their defensive success.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2017 22:53:21 GMT -5
He won't ever be great, but right now he seems to be playing below even his abilities. He seems to be the one player that Stevens can't make look awesome or even decent. Despite being one of the worst statistical shooters in the league (both from range and at the rim), Smart is one of the Celtics' most important offensive players because of his ability to draw help and pass out to the roll man, shooters and cutters. See here: www.cbssports.com/nba/news/marcus-smart-shooting-percentage-stats-boston-celtics-vs-golden-state-warriors/He also remains an elite defender, and his ability to credibly defend multiple positions is critical to their defensive success. I was talking about his offensive game and his shooting and ability to get shots really. He can pass which makes him somewhat useful. That whole article basically says those teams have no idea how to guard Smart. The Hawks guarding him to drive and 3 guys trying to stop Smart, come on. If he keeps shooting like this the whole league will just give him the Rondo treatment. Stay off him and dare him to shoot the ball and Smart will do just that. Come the playoffs teams will not be that stupid. They will play Smart for the pass and dare him to shoot. You could have did an Article like that two years ago about Turner, he did they same thing for us and we see what he has done in Portland. Smart is a useful player, but come on with that small sample size trying to show how awesome he is on offense.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 17, 2017 23:16:10 GMT -5
He also remains an elite defender, and his ability to credibly defend multiple positions is critical to their defensive success. Agreed. Who is better than Smart on defense? Draymond and Kawhi for sure are. Other than I can't think of anyone I'd take over him.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 18, 2017 1:07:18 GMT -5
... 4) After last year's team, it's so weird to see REBOUNDING on this team. It felt like last year's team had 4 on the perimeter and nobody crashing about 95% of the time. Was wonderful to see Brown crashing the paint on offense, among others. ... So far, there's a perfect correlation between the Celtics winning the game, and winning the rebound battle. They lost the first two, and they've won both of those the next 14 games. As one example of players flying under the radar, the German import Theis was on the floor for a total of 31 minutes in the previous 3 games. In that time he pulled down 17 rebounds. As another Rozier has averaged a little less than 24 minutes a game and he's averaging 4.5 rebounds which is even better than Smart's ratio - another guard who's also a good rebounder. Stevens can load the lineup with guys who all compete on the boards and depending on the matchups he often does.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2017 8:13:47 GMT -5
I was talking about his offensive game and his shooting and ability to get shots really. He can pass which makes him somewhat useful. That whole article basically says those teams have no idea how to guard Smart. The Hawks guarding him to drive and 3 guys trying to stop Smart, come on. If he keeps shooting like this the whole league will just give him the Rondo treatment. Stay off him and dare him to shoot the ball and Smart will do just that. Come the playoffs teams will not be that stupid. They will play Smart for the pass and dare him to shoot. You could have did an Article like that two years ago about Turner, he did they same thing for us and we see what he has done in Portland. Smart is a useful player, but come on with that small sample size trying to show how awesome he is on offense. For what it’s worth, Marcus has been the same non-shooter for 4 years now, it’s not like this is new and teams have to adapt. It’s hard to do what you’re proposing teams do against Stevens and his motion/handoff offense.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 18, 2017 8:40:23 GMT -5
A couple down the road this season things:
1. With the Lakers losing to the Suns last night, extending that losing streak, I’m not ruling out a top 5 pick this year.
2. Even if it rolls to 2019, right now the Kings are arguably the worst team in the NBA.
3. Sucks Russel is hurt because without him and Lin, the Nets are going to sink fast.
4. I’m not ruling out a Hayward return this year.
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