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2018-19 International Signing Thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 24, 2018 12:41:03 GMT -5
While most of these players will go where they're reported to be going, at this time last year Daniel Flores was going to the Mets, iirc. So they're not always set in stone. Note that Cubans Osiel Rodriguez (9) and Sandy Gaston (14) are not attached to teams. Also, Ben Badler's rankings can skew a decent amount from MLB's. I believe MLB had Daniel Flores tied to the Sox when this list came out last year. Badler had them tied to the Rangers earlier (like in February). I'm pretty sure Jesse Sanchez got them all correct last year. You are correct. No idea why I keep changing Mets to Rangers on that too. I've been corrected multiple times now.
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Post by jdb on May 11, 2018 11:09:54 GMT -5
Don't know the first thing about these Victors but figured it was news worthy.
Jesse Sanchez @jessesanchezmlb BREAKING: Outfielders Victor Victor Mesa, 21, and Victor Mesa Jr., 16, the sons of legendary Cuban manager Victor Mesa, have left Cuba to chase their big league dreams and pursue a contract with an MLB team. The pair are represented by Magnus Sports. 11:34 AM · May 11, 2018
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Post by taftreign on May 11, 2018 16:28:54 GMT -5
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/05/victor-victor-mesa-brothers-leave-cuba-mlb-free-agent.htmlOutfield prospects Victor Victor Mesa and Victor Mesa Jr. have left Cuba with the intent to pursue contracts with Major League clubs, reports Jesse Sanchez of MLB.com (Twitter link). The elder Mesa brother is 21 years of age, while the younger is still just 16. Victor Victor seemingly confirmed as much this morning by tweeting a picture in which he is wearing a Team USA jacket alongside his younger brother. They’re being represented by Magnus Sports, per Sanchez. Both brothers will be considered amateur players under the collective bargaining agreement and will therefore be subject to Major League Baseball’s international bonus pools, despite the fact that the older of the two does come with six seasons of pro ball in Cuba under his belt. As such, they’ll be limited to minor league contracts and signing bonuses that are relatively minimal when compared to the top prices paid for prior Cuban stars. The Mesa brothers are the sons of Victor Mesa, a 19-year veteran of the Cuban National Series who has in the past served as the manager of Cuba’s team in the World Baseball Classic. Scouting info on the pair is somewhat sparse, especially as pertains to the 16-year-old Mesa Jr. Prior to last year’s WBC, however, Sanchez called the elder Mesa brother one of the top prospects in all of Cuba, reporting that he was one of the main draws for MLB scouts to the international spectacle. Per Sanchez’s brief report, Victor Victor is a plus runner and defender in the outfield with a strong throwing arm. He enjoyed a terrific campaign in the 2016-17 season in the Cuban National Series, hitting .354/.399/.539 and swiping 40 bases in 70 games — lending credence to reports on his impressive speed. In all, he’s a career .275/.334/.378 hitter in his six professional seasons in Cuba. His aggregate numbers are weighed down, to an extent, by the fact that he made his professional debut at the age of 16 and, unsurprisingly, endured some struggles against the island’s top pitchers in his first couple of seasons. There’s obviously a fair ways to go before either will be able to sign with a big league organization. The Mesa brothers will first need to be declared free agents by Major League Baseball — a process that could take several months but has, at times, also taken as much as a year for some players. Even if they’re cleared in short order, it stands to reason that they’d likely wait to sign until at least July 2, when the 2018-19 international signing period kicks off, thus resetting the bonus pools for teams throughout the league. Eight teams — the Reds, A’s, Nationals, Braves, White Sox, Astros, Cardinals and Padres — will still be in the metaphorical “penalty box” for previously shattering their league-allotted pools by more than 15 percent and will subsequently be barred for signing any international amateur player for more than $300K. The other 22 clubs will be able to allocate as much of their pool space as they wish to either or both brothers — it’s not clear if the two are set on signing with the same organization — though the new CBA placed a hard cap on signings and no longer allows clubs to exceed their bonus pools in any capacity.
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Post by dawnbringr on May 11, 2018 16:37:09 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 15, 2018 11:08:47 GMT -5
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,380
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Post by radiohix on May 16, 2018 11:07:32 GMT -5
Considering that the Red Sox have a $4,983,500 bonus pool and they've been linked to only 1 prospect on the July 2 draft, I hope Eddie Romero is working his magic here. would be nice to have some high end talent.
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Post by James Dunne on May 17, 2018 9:00:24 GMT -5
There's obviously some risk involved, but wouldn't it make sense for a player like that to enroll in a JuCo, go #1, and make easily twice as much money?
(There is probably a reason why that would be dumb and do not hesitate to tell me what it is).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 17, 2018 9:54:51 GMT -5
There's obviously some risk involved, but wouldn't it make sense for a player like that to enroll in a JuCo, go #1, and make easily twice as much money? (There is probably a reason why that would be dumb and do not hesitate to tell me what it is). I disagree he'd necessarily make 3x as much money. Seems like he's the kind of guy that'd get about $3M on the IFA market. To guarantee that in the draft, he'd have to go top 20 or so, and to make a significant amount more (~ $1M), he'd have to go top 10, or to make a great deal more (2x), he'd have to go top 5. Adding injury risk of waiting a year, which you point out, plus the risk that he wouldn't perform well, that's a pretty big gamble.
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Post by James Dunne on May 17, 2018 10:03:57 GMT -5
But if he's better than Luis Robert then he seems like a pretty clear Top 5 pick, no? And maybe #1? Again, I could be way off on this.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 17, 2018 11:28:57 GMT -5
Well that's why I call it a gamble rather than a dumb move or something. If he's certain that he'd be a top 5 pick, then go for it. But using BA's top 100 list, 7 2017 draftees rank ahead of Robert. On MLBPipeline's list, there are 4. On Fangraphs' list, there are none. Talent is in the eye of the beholder. If you're Robert-level good, I'd say it's not worth it. If you're like, an Ohtani-level stud, then yeah, do it. Maybe if you were Moncada good, that makes it probably a good move?
I guess the other issue would be if he doesn't even speak any English. Could he remain academically eligible? I guess he could enroll for the spring and it wouldn't matter?
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,380
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Post by radiohix on Jun 14, 2018 3:45:46 GMT -5
The story is by the guy who broke the Wellington castillo PED suspension. Needless to say, this is BIG.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 14, 2018 7:44:39 GMT -5
Wow, that is freaking insane. Seems like the Red Sox could benefit more than they'd be harmed from this.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 14, 2018 8:01:54 GMT -5
Can anyone find any confirmation?
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,380
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Post by radiohix on Jun 14, 2018 8:04:22 GMT -5
Wow, that is freaking insane. Seems like the Red Sox could benefit more than they'd be harmed from this. We're talking about the Dominican kids here, 4 of the top 10 MLB Pipeline talents are from Venezuala including Number 1 Diego Cartaya. I thought (hoped?) that Sox not being very active was a sign that they're targeting the cuban pitchers or someone like Victor Victor Mesa. It's gonna be interesting to see what transpires in next 2 weeks.
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 14, 2018 8:13:41 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 14, 2018 8:16:26 GMT -5
Eduardo Lopez, the top guy that the Sox are connected to, is the #13 Dominican prospect. Really good chance he’s one of the ones that failed if this story is true. Would be a setback for the Sox.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jun 15, 2018 8:58:10 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 22, 2018 11:27:43 GMT -5
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Post by michael on Jun 22, 2018 22:08:32 GMT -5
His name is much better than Victor Victoria.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,380
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Post by radiohix on Jun 25, 2018 8:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 25, 2018 8:37:49 GMT -5
That's good to hear. Between Eduardo Lopez and Eduardo Vaughan, the Sox have about $2 mil tied up. This give them a lot of room, especially if they trade for more space.
I believe the Reds, Cardinals, Astros, Athletics, Padres, and Braves are under penalty, so they are all targets for extra space. The Orioles are always a trade partner too because they ignore international signings for the most part.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2018 10:27:00 GMT -5
Well, keep in mind that trading for international money means you're, in fact, trading something of value. If we're talking the equivalents of Stanley Espinal and Imeldo Diaz like last year (both repeating the NYPL for St. Louis this year), cool, but that kind of package ain't getting you much. There's a risk inherent in trading the bird in hand for the two in the bush.
Of course, it's wrong and impossible to draw a comparison to the other trade they made last year (Longhi for, essentially, the money to sign Daniel Flores), so don't read into this post thinking THAT'S the kind of risk I'm talking about.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 25, 2018 10:31:27 GMT -5
Well, keep in mind that trading for international money means you're, in fact, trading something of value. If we're talking the equivalents of Stanley Espinal and Imeldo Diaz like last year (both repeating the NYPL for St. Louis this year), cool, but that kind of package ain't getting you much. There's a risk inherent in trading the bird in hand for the two in the bush. Of course, it's wrong and impossible to draw a comparison to the other trade they made last year (Longhi for, essentially, the money to sign Daniel Flores), so don't read into this post thinking THAT'S the kind of risk I'm talking about. They should trade something of value to other teams which doesn't have as much value to the Red Sox, such as the glut of relief pitchers clogging up the 40-man roster.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2018 11:40:11 GMT -5
Well, keep in mind that trading for international money means you're, in fact, trading something of value. If we're talking the equivalents of Stanley Espinal and Imeldo Diaz like last year (both repeating the NYPL for St. Louis this year), cool, but that kind of package ain't getting you much. There's a risk inherent in trading the bird in hand for the two in the bush. Of course, it's wrong and impossible to draw a comparison to the other trade they made last year (Longhi for, essentially, the money to sign Daniel Flores), so don't read into this post thinking THAT'S the kind of risk I'm talking about. They should trade something of value to other teams which doesn't have as much value to the Red Sox, such as the glut of relief pitchers clogging up the 40-man roster. Not sure I agree there's any "glut" "clogging" up the 40-man roster, which isn't even full. There shouldn't be an issue this offseason either: they need to protect Chavis, Darwinzon, Lakins, and maybe Baldwin, and have enough guys either coming off or DFA-able that there shouldn't be a problem. I mean, who specifically are you thinking of here? It's not like they're going to get $1.5 million in international cap space for, say, Chandler Shepherd. Maybe they can dink and dunk some space for guys like that, but if all you're getting is like, $500k, you're trading a guy for space to sign guys who are unlikely to ever even become Chandler Shepherd. That was kind of my point. These trades either need to be completely fungible assets (e.g., Stanley Espinal and Imeldo Diaz, who were kind of hanging around the back of our rankings but were no great shakes) or useful assets for huge portions of money (e.g. Longhi for $2.75M of space that let them sign Flores).
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 26, 2018 8:45:29 GMT -5
Extra pool money is about what Swihart is right now instead of nothing more than being a useless spot on the 25 man roster.
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