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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2019 14:05:30 GMT -5
FTR for the 26th man in a single game, I kind of like it. Not like they have many options anyway (the lack of 40-man depth is crazy right now), and it sets boundaries on the expectation.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 24, 2019 0:18:59 GMT -5
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jun 15, 2019 14:37:42 GMT -5
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jun 15, 2019 14:49:54 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on Jun 15, 2019 18:28:28 GMT -5
Interesting. My first thought was wondering if the promotion would coincide with a move to the bullpen. Speier's tweet doesn't suggest so but I wonder if he might see a change in role soon to see if he can contribute to the Boston pen down the stretch.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 15, 2019 19:04:42 GMT -5
Yeah Darwinzon certainly didn't earn the promotion at AA. There's probably another reason behind the promotion.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 15, 2019 19:28:32 GMT -5
The ones given are quite clear: different ball; more experienced catchers. Coaching might also play into the mix. He was obviously over-throwing in his last go-round with the ML team, trying to replace command with gas. That usually doesn't work, even if you're Nolan Ryan. He needs better insight into what it means to pitch - really pitch - at the next level. That may be exactly what they're trying to get him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 16, 2019 21:09:38 GMT -5
Yeah Darwinzon certainly didn't earn the promotion at AA. There's probably another reason behind the promotion. I mean, statistically no, but that may not be what they were looking for. Keep in mind that the short call ups to Boston, as well as weather, have really screwed with his routine. It's very possible they had specific developmental goals that he has basically achieved. If literally nobody is having a comfortable at-bat against him, including the walks, then maybe he can continue working on the walks in Pawtucket. I look forward to seeing if we hear anything on that line of inquiry. I'm admittedly speculating.
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Post by soxfan511 on Jun 16, 2019 22:42:20 GMT -5
I don’t see him as a starter at all. However, he’s got the makings of an elite lefty out of the pen and possibly a very good closer someday. His stuff is nasty, I see two clear cut plus pitches but his command beyond 1 inning is atrocious, and the big drop off in the speed of his fastball after 1-2 innings is alarming
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2019 7:58:02 GMT -5
I don’t see him as a starter at all. However, he’s got the makings of an elite lefty out of the pen and possibly a very good closer someday. His stuff is nasty, I see two clear cut plus pitches but his command beyond 1 inning is atrocious, and the big drop off in the speed of his fastball after 1-2 innings is alarming You're judging his stamina on a 3 inning 87 pitch outing by a 22 year old who was all amped up on adrenaline since it was his first major league start.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 17, 2019 8:06:02 GMT -5
He had a 31.4% K rate in Double-A. The walk rate is obviously way, way too high, but if Double-A hitters are basically helpless against him and are just keeping their bat on the shoulder in case he'll walk them then he might be someone for whom there's a lot of value in challenging.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 17, 2019 10:41:25 GMT -5
He had a 31.4% K rate in Double-A. The walk rate is obviously way, way too high, but if Double-A hitters are basically helpless against him and are just keeping their bat on the shoulder in case he'll walk them then he might be someone for whom there's a lot of value in challenging. Yeah, seems like he could use the Nuke LaLoosh treatment. Better sequencing, someone to calm him down, maybe who can catch blips in his delivery and help him become more repeatable. There’s no way I’d give up on him as a starter. Not for a while.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 17, 2019 11:02:50 GMT -5
The ones given are quite clear: different ball; more experienced catchers. Coaching might also play into the mix. He was obviously over-throwing in his last go-round with the ML team, trying to replace command with gas. That usually doesn't work, even if you're Nolan Ryan. He needs better insight into what it means to pitch - really pitch - at the next level. That may be exactly what they're trying to get him. The more I let this sink in the more I like it, especially if they keep him as a starter. Get him in the best spot possible to learn and progress. My first thought when I heard the promotion was Owens who never did find his command/control, but maybe that's a bad comp? Not necessarily a bad comp in that fastball command/control was/is a serious problem for both, but the major difference being that Hernandez has an elite-spin, high-velocity 4FB. He has much more leeway for error in the zone. He also has a plus secondary in the CB (for Owens it was the CH, which for a while was arguably 70-grade). Owens risked getting shelled in the zone with his FB; Hernandez is going to get a LOT more swing-and-miss. He can be more wild *in* the zone and get away with it. He’s also much newer to pitching (started as a 15-y/o having never played baseball before), and probably has more malleable mechanics. I think Owens backslid at the highest levels because he got scared of contact and started nibbling badly, which led to an inability to use the CH. Hernandez simply has to trust his stuff, because the spin and natural movement on the FB are outstanding...even the slightest miscalculation and he’s going to blow it by people; that his CB has such high spin makes it a good pairing with the FB look-wise. I’m a firm believer in giving him an extended look as a starter. I mean, Owens was actually pretty solid in his first go-around. He was only 22, and basically pitched like a 4. But as when he didn’t pitch well to start the next year, they basically ave up on him. I think the confidence hit did as much damage as anything else. LOTS of guys, it takes them 2-4 years, sometimes more, to figure it out. What James said is really a great point...his whiff rate is over 30%, and that’s basically without the benefit of “fooling” batters. I’m sure he’s not inducing a lot of swings, because they know he’s wild. And he’s still getting tons of whiffs. The biggest challenge for Darwinzon...is Darwinzon. I think he’s probably not going to see much difference in terms of “competition,” in that his stuff is SO far beyond that. AAA hitters are going to struggle just like AA and MLB hitters have. Big fella just needs to find the plate. But at least he can do so with a major league catcher and the major league ball. And, wth the bump up instead of down, maybe a little confidence.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 17, 2019 11:05:57 GMT -5
The ones given are quite clear: different ball; more experienced catchers. Coaching might also play into the mix. He was obviously over-throwing in his last go-round with the ML team, trying to replace command with gas. That usually doesn't work, even if you're Nolan Ryan. He needs better insight into what it means to pitch - really pitch - at the next level. That may be exactly what they're trying to get him. The more I let this sink in the more I like it, especially if they keep him as a starter. Get him in the best spot possible to learn and progress. My first thought when I heard the promotion was Owens who never did find his command/control, but maybe that's a bad comp? Owens' fastball was bad. If someone can't command a fastball and he's only throwing it 90 then he is not a major league pitcher. Everything else plays off of that.
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Post by brendan98 on Jul 26, 2019 10:59:18 GMT -5
So what do we think Hernandez is now?
Obviously, right now, he’s a reliever, and pitches out of the bullpen for the rest of the season if he continues to dominate like he has.
Do the Red Sox go back to developing him as a starter next year? A pitching prospect with so little experience could very well improve his command/control with more experience, and he’s still only 22 with a starting pitchers build.
I think that it is a pretty tough call on how to use him/develop him going forward after this season. In a perfect world you don’t decide that based on need, however it’s happening right now based on need and could very well next year as well.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 26, 2019 11:23:08 GMT -5
So what do we think Hernandez is now? Obviously, right now, he’s a reliever, and pitches out of the bullpen for the rest of the season if he continues to dominate like he has. Do the Red Sox go back to developing him as a starter next year? A pitching prospect with so little experience could very well improve his command/control with more experience, and he’s still only 22 with a starting pitchers build. I think that it is a pretty tough call on how to use him/develop him going forward after this season. In a perfect world you don’t decide that based on need, however it’s happening right now based on need and could very well next year as well. It would be interesting to try him in the sort of power-swingman role that the Dodgers have put Urias in this year.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 26, 2019 11:33:31 GMT -5
One interesting thing about the opener is that I feel like being the guy who is following the opener is a good way to break in a young player or transition a reliever to starting. Like you get Hembree or Lakins or someone of that ilk through the first and then tell Hernandez that he's going exactly once through the order. And then you ramp him up a few batters at a time to twice through the order and then you move toward starting or you go back to the bullpen based on results.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jul 26, 2019 13:29:07 GMT -5
I don't about you guys but I very much enjoyed watching DJ Lemahieu swinging through a Darwinzons Fastball like he was under water lmao
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2019 17:47:43 GMT -5
I think this situation will be very similar to Papelbon. Not in that I think he will be the closer for a while, but that he'll prove too valuable in MLB to send him down to learn to start given the limitations on him as a starter, while the temptation to do that will remain.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 26, 2019 18:03:58 GMT -5
I think this situation will be very similar to Papelbon. Not in that I think he will be the closer for a while, but that he'll prove too valuable in MLB to send him down to learn to start given the limitations on him as a starter, while the temptation to do that will remain. I know starters are more valuable, but I agree with this even more so in light of the re-emergence of Mata, The revelation of Thaddeus Ward, the drafting of Noah Song, the emergence of YPA, and the flashes of brilliance from Brayan Bello. For the first time in a while (seems like it anyway), the system has some real potential for starting pitching. This has me thinking even more that The Evolution is in the pen to stay. Closer or elite set up guy (hopefully) is a really good outcome for this guy - and fills a need for the big league club.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 18:29:30 GMT -5
I think this situation will be very similar to Papelbon. Not in that I think he will be the closer for a while, but that he'll prove too valuable in MLB to send him down to learn to start given the limitations on him as a starter, while the temptation to do that will remain. Sale did it (at age 20 instead of 22 though) and because he's Sale.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 26, 2019 18:35:50 GMT -5
I think this situation will be very similar to Papelbon. Not in that I think he will be the closer for a while, but that he'll prove too valuable in MLB to send him down to learn to start given the limitations on him as a starter, while the temptation to do that will remain. I wonder if things would've gone differently for Papelbon if he came up now, though. The mid-2000's were kind of the peak 'if he can't go seven innings he should only go one' style of bullpen management. And they basically wouldn't move anyone to the rotation who wasn't stretched out - the idea of an opener or piggybacking was kind of foreign. Hernandez could potentially convert to the rotation next year without going back to the minors. Hernandez pitching so well in a short role that it's a hard decision would be a pleasant problem to have though, for sure.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 26, 2019 18:48:39 GMT -5
I think this situation will be very similar to Papelbon. Not in that I think he will be the closer for a while, but that he'll prove too valuable in MLB to send him down to learn to start given the limitations on him as a starter, while the temptation to do that will remain. I wonder if things would've gone differently for Papelbon if he came up now, though. The mid-2000's were kind of the peak 'if he can't go seven innings he should only go one' style of bullpen management. And they basically wouldn't move anyone to the rotation who wasn't stretched out - the idea of an opener or piggybacking was kind of foreign. Hernandez could potentially convert to the rotation next year without going back to the minors. Hernandez pitching so well in a short role that it's a hard decision would be a pleasant problem to have though, for sure. I don't completely disagree, but as a guy who watched Matt Barnes be a completely dominant starter for UCONN before he was drafted... And now watching him become an elite (if not pitched on back to back nights) reliever... I'd say its, same as it ever was.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2019 21:28:51 GMT -5
So what do we think Hernandez is now? Obviously, right now, he’s a reliever, and pitches out of the bullpen for the rest of the season if he continues to dominate like he has. Do the Red Sox go back to developing him as a starter next year? A pitching prospect with so little experience could very well improve his command/control with more experience, and he’s still only 22 with a starting pitchers build. I think that it is a pretty tough call on how to use him/develop him going forward after this season. In a perfect world you don’t decide that based on need, however it’s happening right now based on need and could very well next year as well. I think he’s a solid SP prospect with #1 stuff and #5 command. Basically, he’s a LH Tyler Glasnow. His FB velocity is historically plus even as a SP, it was plus-plus in the AFL, though he’s been just 94-95 lately. But the spin and movement make his FB elite, and it shows when you watch hitters befuddled by it. His breaker (I guess it’s a SL now) has elite spin in the AFL too. I think he’s a good to excellent reliever right now, ultimately with the Glasnow-style (or Sale, Wainright, etc. Braves/Cards-style development on the fly) return to the rotation if (when) his command improves. Way too early to give up on him as a SP imo. He should get at least one more shot at it after he’s had relatively extensive (1-2 yr) MLB experience.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2019 21:36:43 GMT -5
So what do we think Hernandez is now? Obviously, right now, he’s a reliever, and pitches out of the bullpen for the rest of the season if he continues to dominate like he has. Do the Red Sox go back to developing him as a starter next year? A pitching prospect with so little experience could very well improve his command/control with more experience, and he’s still only 22 with a starting pitchers build. I think that it is a pretty tough call on how to use him/develop him going forward after this season. In a perfect world you don’t decide that based on need, however it’s happening right now based on need and could very well next year as well. It would be interesting to try him in the sort of power-swingman role that the Dodgers have put Urias in this year. Agreed. I think that would be ideal both in terms of development as a potential SP, and maximizing his current value to the team. His ERA is 2.89 and that’s because of his .471 BABIPA. Not many balls in play when you’re whiffing 19.3 per 9. He’s basically looking like a wilder Josh Hader. Except he debuted a year younger. Now, tough to argue that Hader would be more valuable as a SP, and it may be the same with Darwinzon, but I’d hate to see them give up this early on. His stuff is just straight electric.
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