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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 21:39:29 GMT -5
It would be interesting to try him in the sort of power-swingman role that the Dodgers have put Urias in this year. Agreed. I think that would be ideal both in terms of development as a potential SP, and maximizing his current value to the team. His ERA is 2.89 and that’s because of his .471 BABIPA. Not many balls in play when you’re whiffing 19.3 per 9. He’s basically looking like a wilder Josh Hader. Except he debuted a year younger. Now, tough to argue that Hader would be more valuable as a SP, and it may be the same with Darwinzon, but I’d hate to see them give up this early on. His stuff is just straight electric. Well, I think you need to look at his relief stats (including the 1st inning of his start) to get a good look at what he may be worth now. Which is about as great as we could ever hope for, actually.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2019 21:50:31 GMT -5
Agreed. I think that would be ideal both in terms of development as a potential SP, and maximizing his current value to the team. His ERA is 2.89 and that’s because of his .471 BABIPA. Not many balls in play when you’re whiffing 19.3 per 9. He’s basically looking like a wilder Josh Hader. Except he debuted a year younger. Now, tough to argue that Hader would be more valuable as a SP, and it may be the same with Darwinzon, but I’d hate to see them give up this early on. His stuff is just straight electric. Well, I think you need to look at his relief stats (including the 1st inning of his start) to get a good look at what he may be worth now. Which is about as great as we could ever hope for, actually. Yeah, what...17 whiffs in 6 innings if you take away the last 2.1 of his start? That’s just ludicrous. I agree that Chris has a point about value and need matching up, and Aroldis Chapman is a similar example of the early switch due to MLB value, who then preferred to stay closing. It’s tough to say what eventually happens, though my preference is still (and FTHW’s Urías usage comp is perfect for this purpose) that they allow for some command development and try him in the rotation. He’s got true #1 stuff (if lacking a plus third pitch)...and Glasnow is a good roadmap. Especially with Porcello being likely gone. James’s TB-emulation idea actually makes some sense for them next year in the five spot. Saves $, too. Maybe Eovaldi and Señor Evolution piggyback after an opener. As has been said, it’s a wonderful dilemma to have. Big D has been an absolute MONSTER out of the bullpen. Edit: oops, 13 K in 6.1 as a RP. Which isn’t as impressive, but still sick. What’s also interesting is that in his start, he still averaged the same K/9. So even though he struggled with control and racked up a huge pitch count...tiring quickly with the resulting loss in velocity...he still got a lot of whiffs. One positive takeaway from that is how *incredible* his spin/movement on the FB are. He still missed bats at 91-92. The combination of arm angle with the resulting spin/movement sure seems to spell out an elite fastball quality, even if the velo isn’t necessarily elite. It’s a ridiculously small sample, but in light of his minor league results, i do think that suggests that with proper control and command, he could be a terrific SP. I don’t know how much we can make of his ability to maintain stuff yet, but we do know that he’s still got quality stuff when it isn’t his best.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 27, 2019 15:47:28 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 28, 2019 8:56:31 GMT -5
It's not even clear that Darwinzon has enough control to make it as a reliever, and while I know scouts have given the breaking ball good grades, it hasn't actually played that well in the majors (the fastball actually gets more whiffs even though he throws it three times as often). So sub-par command, a secondary pitch that's been more passable than good, and no third pitch in sight. It's a reliever profile all the way.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 28, 2019 9:11:15 GMT -5
One improvement in baseball this decade over the previous 20 years is that recognizing someone fits best in the bullpen now doesn't mean they'll be there forever. If the secondaries are better in like 2022 then maybe you consider starting him, or using him behind an opener, whatever. He's probably a reliever forever, but the flexibility of the modern game makes it easier to use someone in the bullpen for the short term and constantly reevaluate.
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Post by voiceofreason on Sept 28, 2019 9:54:04 GMT -5
Darwin could turn out to be a very big gift if he takes a step forward in his control. I am optimistic it will happen and he will be the dominant closer of the future. That is a big gift at a perfect time for a team that needs to cut payroll and keep one of the best players in the game.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 29, 2019 20:28:43 GMT -5
Workman Barnes Hernandez Taylor Houck (hopefully one day soon) Feltman (hopefully one day soon) Bazardo (hopefully one day soon)
The start of a nice homegrown bullpen.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 30, 2019 8:41:13 GMT -5
That's a lot of hope....
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 30, 2019 9:00:06 GMT -5
Yeah, don't really think Brandon Workman will be around for a bullpen that contains Bazardo or Feltman. If money is an issue, it's hard to see the Sox going in big on Workman if he should have another amazing year. I don't think having bullpen arms in the minors is that amazing. I mean most of your bullpens are made up of successful minor league relievers and failed minor league starters who took to the pen. I don't know that the Sox "future bullpen" is necessarily more amazing than the future relievers of most other clubs. Darwinzon Hernandez is promising. I would hardly call him "elite" until he shows much better control. But that said, it's not hard to see him as a late inning lefty coming in. Feltman's struggles are concerning because there were hopes that he could be the future closer at some point but that's kind of questionable at this point. We'll have to see what 2020 brings for him. Hopefully 2019 was a bump in the road. I hope Houck isn't in the pen, but I think that's becoming a possibility. Really, the Red Sox would be far better off if he figured out a way to get lefties out more consistently because the Red Sox need a near ready young starter far more than they need a reliever. They've already given up on Hernandez as a starter. I hope they don't have to with Houck, but yeah, if they do, he has a future in the bullpen. Taylor was that rare great swipe trade that Dombrowski made. Taylor can be useful piece in the pen, a secondary lefty to go with the power lefty Hernandez. Barnes is...what he is. He's a solid reliever, but unfortunately not as good as we had hoped for. The hope when the season began was that he'd be a right handed Andrew Miller (in his prime) and Ryan Brasier would be the Cody Allen (before Allen fell apart) getting the saves. But neither thing happened. Barnes hasn't really progressed beyond what he is, which is a decent, but not dominating setup man. He gets the strikeouts, but walks too many guys and gives up too much solid contact when he isn't walking guys. Basically I keep waiting for the season where his ERA is under 3 or even under 2, but when it looks like he's headed in that direction, he struggles mightily and winds up in the high 3's. He just hasn't taken that next step yet and I don't know that he will.
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Post by ramireja on Apr 6, 2020 11:56:10 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 6, 2020 21:35:17 GMT -5
That could pretty much be an insert name here statement.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 7, 2020 8:47:03 GMT -5
Yup. I think Jonathan Papelbon is the only player I can recall who's actively preferred pitching out of the bullpen. Of course, he was also a strange duck himself.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 7, 2020 9:09:40 GMT -5
Yup. I think Jonathan Papelbon is the only player I can recall who's actively preferred pitching out of the bullpen. Of course, he was also a strange duck himself. I might be wrong but if I recall he was not a happy camper initially.It wasn't until he found success there that he decided he liked it.
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KB24
Rookie
Posts: 147
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Post by KB24 on Apr 7, 2020 13:33:30 GMT -5
Maybe if he could demonstrate that he's capable of keeping his BB/9 under 5.0 for a period of time rather than 8.0 then that could be a realistic idea....
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 8, 2020 9:00:34 GMT -5
The counter to that is that he's never going to develop that consistency and stamina if he's coming out of the bullpen. That's always the balance, right? Figuring out when it's best to have someone produce in the bullpen now or continue working himself into the harder role, whether it's in the minors or as a less-effective MLB starter.
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 8, 2020 11:00:02 GMT -5
The counter to that is that he's never going to develop that consistency and stamina if he's coming out of the bullpen. That's always the balance, right? Figuring out when it's best to have someone produce in the bullpen now or continue working himself into the harder role, whether it's in the minors or as a less-effective MLB starter. Is this where a starter role could make sense? Allow him to go a 2nd/3rd/4th inning - with a planned trigger for pulling him - and see how he can handle longer stints.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 8, 2020 23:48:50 GMT -5
The counter to that is that he's never going to develop that consistency and stamina if he's coming out of the bullpen. That's always the balance, right? Figuring out when it's best to have someone produce in the bullpen now or continue working himself into the harder role, whether it's in the minors or as a less-effective MLB starter. Is this where a starter role could make sense? Allow him to go a 2nd/3rd/4th inning - with a planned trigger for pulling him - and see how he can handle longer stints. Maybe, but that's also the lowest leverage role. And in a shortened season you don't have the luxury of working that stuff out in the first half. Of course, one thing with the 2020 Red Sox is the question of whether they are good. A mediocre team can afford to experiment and not worry about the marginal gains of ideal usage patterns more than a team that's clearly a contender.
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Post by manfred on Apr 10, 2020 15:52:54 GMT -5
Yup. I think Jonathan Papelbon is the only player I can recall who's actively preferred pitching out of the bullpen. Of course, he was also a strange duck himself. Didn’t Papelbon have some shoulder issue that kept him from starting? Or was that later? Or am I misremembering? Not directly a reference to your point (it doesn’t impact desire), but just curious.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 10, 2020 20:16:17 GMT -5
He did have a shoulder subluxation, but the thought at the time was that was a reason he shouldn't be relieving, and part of why they considered moving him into the rotation the following season.
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