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4/13-4/16 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 15, 2018 1:30:50 GMT -5
Hanley F’ing Ramirez. Apparently, there’s maybe some validity to the TB12 method? Hanley is scorching hot at the plate and actually looks pretty nimble in the field. Vintage Hanley makes this lineup terrifying. I’ve said this before. I honestly think Hanley needs to be playing in the field to stay engaged. He’s a high energy guy that looked like the DH role put him to sleep No need to go all Freudian about this. Ramirez played while hurt last year. He's healthy, he's changed his diet (avocado ice cream?) and he's in terrific shape. If that holds true all season - a big if - then he'll mash. That's the way it's worked in the past. Most impressive is the added loft to those wall-denting rocket-propelled liners. They're even clearing the Monster.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 15, 2018 2:22:50 GMT -5
I’ve said this before. I honestly think Hanley needs to be playing in the field to stay engaged. He’s a high energy guy that looked like the DH role put him to sleep No need to go all Freudian about this. Ramirez played while hurt last year. He's healthy, he's changed his diet (avocado ice cream?) and he's in terrific shape. If that holds true all season - a big if - then he'll mash. That's the way it's worked in the past. Most impressive is the added loft to those wall-denting rocket-propelled liners. They're even clearing the Monster. He's also hit much better in his career as a DH than in the field, and considers Papi a mentor and presumably has tried to emulate him in technique. That means studying video between at bats, which is actually being more engaged with hitting, not less. One thing he gets no credit for and, I think, deserves, is smarts. (In which aspect he resembles Manny.) He hits an unusually high percentage of good pitcher's pitches hard, and that means he was looking for the right pitch in the right place. When he's going well, he especially seems to have a great sense of when they'll try to work him outside, and he often hammers those pitches.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 15, 2018 5:55:00 GMT -5
The Red Sox played another complete all around game. Velazquez did a good job and the offense was great. Gotta love what we're seeing. Like I said before this is as talented as a Red Sox team I've seen since I've been watching which is almost 40 years. I've never seen a Red Sox team win 100 games. This team has the ability to. Don't know if they'll stay healthy enough. They seem to have a lot of close calls in the health dept where you're kind of holding your breath - with Betts being the latest after Hanley - and so far they've kind of skated. I think that this team will ultimately need middle relief help, but beyond that every piece of the puzzle is there. Xander is blossoming. Hanley is healthy and mashing and Moreland is useful insurance. Betts is elite. JD is starting to heat up and his presence is a difference maker in the lineup. Eventually I'd expect Devers to heat up a bit, too, along with Benintendi. Kimbrel is an elite closer. Price and Porcello are pitching as hoped or even better beind Sale. And they get Pomeranz and Pedroia back eventually. This team is stacked. I'm starting to wonder - once the Sox get their starters healthy, and hopefully it stays that way for a bit, maybe Velazquez can become a viable higher leverage relief option down the road? If he's not needed? I'm talking once the Sox have Sale/Price/Porcello/Pomeranz/E-Rod as their starting 5 and have Johnson and Wright in the pen as the next starting options in line? Velazquez has done nothing to deserve to be optioned at any point although he could get squeezed out if the Sox pitchers stay mostly healthy. Just a thought. The Sox could definitely use middle relief help if Smith doesn't turn it around, Thornburg doesn't come back the way he was and Barnes and Kelly continue to be inconsistent. I assume they'll acquire somebody but perhaps whether it's in July or October Velazquez can get some key 8th inning outs down the road? It’s funny how much of an afterthought Pedroia has become. The nice thing is there will be no rush to get him back so hopefully he’s completely healthy. He’s shown that when healthy he still is one of the best second basemen out there not named Altuve. Assuming health for the rest of the team, I really hope he takes to a bottom third of the order role though. Adding a healthy Pedroia to the bottom of the order will nice, although, I’m not sure he can do that much better than Nunez.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 15, 2018 6:06:41 GMT -5
The Red Sox played another complete all around game. Velazquez did a good job and the offense was great. Gotta love what we're seeing. Like I said before this is as talented as a Red Sox team I've seen since I've been watching which is almost 40 years. I've never seen a Red Sox team win 100 games. This team has the ability to. Don't know if they'll stay healthy enough. They seem to have a lot of close calls in the health dept where you're kind of holding your breath - with Betts being the latest after Hanley - and so far they've kind of skated. I think that this team will ultimately need middle relief help, but beyond that every piece of the puzzle is there. Xander is blossoming. Hanley is healthy and mashing and Moreland is useful insurance. Betts is elite. JD is starting to heat up and his presence is a difference maker in the lineup. Eventually I'd expect Devers to heat up a bit, too, along with Benintendi. Kimbrel is an elite closer. Price and Porcello are pitching as hoped or even better beind Sale. And they get Pomeranz and Pedroia back eventually. This team is stacked. I'm starting to wonder - once the Sox get their starters healthy, and hopefully it stays that way for a bit, maybe Velazquez can become a viable higher leverage relief option down the road? If he's not needed? I'm talking once the Sox have Sale/Price/Porcello/Pomeranz/E-Rod as their starting 5 and have Johnson and Wright in the pen as the next starting options in line? Velazquez has done nothing to deserve to be optioned at any point although he could get squeezed out if the Sox pitchers stay mostly healthy. Just a thought. The Sox could definitely use middle relief help if Smith doesn't turn it around, Thornburg doesn't come back the way he was and Barnes and Kelly continue to be inconsistent. I assume they'll acquire somebody but perhaps whether it's in July or October Velazquez can get some key 8th inning outs down the road? It’s funny how much of an afterthought Pedroia has become. The nice thing is there will be no rush to get him back so hopefully he’s completely healthy. He’s shown that when healthy he still is one of the best second basemen out there not named Altuve. Assuming health for the rest of the team, I really hope he takes to a bottom third of the order role though. Adding a healthy Pedroia to the bottom of the order will nice, although, I’m not sure he can do that much better than Nunez. The slugging of Pedrioa and Nunez are probably about the same these days, but Pedrioa gets on base a lot more often. It's close, but Pedrioa is still the better overall hitter imo. It's not a question how much better the Sox are defensively with him too. I think the Sox will miss Pedrioa sooner rather than later, but still no need to rush the guy back. He will be more important later on in the year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 15, 2018 6:07:28 GMT -5
Velazquez now has 38 IP in ML and he's been a solid or good #3 starter. That doesn't mean he's that good in the long run, but the odds of him being a real #4 (or better) are solid and a real #5 or better are very high. Now, they should be committed to keeping both Johnson and Wright on the roster; along with Velazquez they provide amazing SP depth, and both have more actual value than trade value. That leaves 4 spots in the bullpen for set-up guys. One spot you'd expect to go to a LHR, and they should be in good shape with a choice between Poyner, Beeks, Jerez, and Scott, the latter three having been the three best pitchers so far at Pawtucket (a fact very admittedly more amusing than meaningful at this point in the season, but I couldn't help myself.) (Oh, and you know you're going good when a 3-inning save guy with a 5.00 ERA is a more useful option for the last man in the pen than a lefty specialist.) So that leaves 3 spots for RH setup, when and if no one is on the DL, and they have 3 guys without options and three very viable guys with. Smith Kelly Hembree ---- Thornburg Barnes Velazquez Now, there will almost always be room on the roster for the best of the second group, and often room for two or more. The very interesting question is whether, at some point, you deal one of the guys in the first group in order to create a permanent spot for a guy in the second. That's unlikely to happen before Thornburg is ready, but the addition of Velazquez to group 2 makes it much more workable. And of course the emergence of Buttrey or Shepherd, the re-emergence of Workman, health by Maddox, or ace work from multiple LHR candidates ... all of those would make it easier to deal Hembree (the obvious guy in terms of trade value). It would be great of they could get a solid prospect for him at the deadline just because we have more solid relief than we can use. At this point in the year Velazquez needs to be optioned. It sucks but he had options and you can keep him stretched out. You’re right he’s proven himself to be a viable major league starter and maybe even something slightly better than that, but he’s got 2 option years left and the team would be wise to use them. Having a guy like him ride the shuttle is probably a bit unfair to him but it’s the smartest way to create depth.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 15, 2018 8:20:23 GMT -5
Strikes shouldn't be missed in general. I agree with the premise that the game needs automated strikezones. Bingo! SS and Pedro are both right IMO. It's clear to me that when a large group of people spend their lives trying to do something properly and they still seem "inconsistent", the problem is not the people. The problem is that the task is nearly impossible for humans to do consistently well. Umps making the calls are fine at lower levels. Where the big bucks and big audiences are on the line it ought to be done right. It really needs to be automated. One argument I've heard against that goes something like "That's baseball". That seems to me to be an argument that getting things wrong is fundamental to the game in some way. I grant that I don't know a third as much about stats & scouting & such as many here, but here are very few here who have been baseball fans longer than I (because I'm {bleep}'n old!), and I just don't get that argument. Wrong calls in any sport are not fundamental to the sport. They are flaws in the sport. This one, in my opinion, can be, and therefore should be, fixed, at least at the major league level. I'll now try not to hurt myself climbing down off this soap box. Good argument for automated calls. One more would be all the stuff that goes on because of bad calls, both the hitters and the pitchers would have less stress knowing that the call was right. They would have no argument. The umps won't like it but why does their opinion matter, they are umpires not ambassadors of the game. Heck if they wanted to they could have the calls made into an ear piece to tell them what the call is so they could still make the call publicly.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 15, 2018 8:52:27 GMT -5
Velazquez now has 38 IP in ML and he's been a solid or good #3 starter. That doesn't mean he's that good in the long run, but the odds of him being a real #4 (or better) are solid and a real #5 or better are very high. Now, they should be committed to keeping both Johnson and Wright on the roster; along with Velazquez they provide amazing SP depth, and both have more actual value than trade value. That leaves 4 spots in the bullpen for set-up guys. One spot you'd expect to go to a LHR, and they should be in good shape with a choice between Poyner, Beeks, Jerez, and Scott, the latter three having been the three best pitchers so far at Pawtucket (a fact very admittedly more amusing than meaningful at this point in the season, but I couldn't help myself.) (Oh, and you know you're going good when a 3-inning save guy with a 5.00 ERA is a more useful option for the last man in the pen than a lefty specialist.) So that leaves 3 spots for RH setup, when and if no one is on the DL, and they have 3 guys without options and three very viable guys with. Smith Kelly Hembree ---- Thornburg Barnes Velazquez Now, there will almost always be room on the roster for the best of the second group, and often room for two or more. The very interesting question is whether, at some point, you deal one of the guys in the first group in order to create a permanent spot for a guy in the second. That's unlikely to happen before Thornburg is ready, but the addition of Velazquez to group 2 makes it much more workable. And of course the emergence of Buttrey or Shepherd, the re-emergence of Workman, health by Maddox, or ace work from multiple LHR candidates ... all of those would make it easier to deal Hembree (the obvious guy in terms of trade value). It would be great of they could get a solid prospect for him at the deadline just because we have more solid relief than we can use. I started driving the Velazquez bus last Fall when I looked at all his numbers and backed out the 1 poor outing he had in Oakland. Isn't their a story about him having a rushed flight to get out there, I think maybe? Either way he has basically been pitching lights out for over 3 years now. As I have said before he is going to be a big contributor for the Sox where ever they pitch him. In regards to him, Johnson and Wright having more actual value vs trade value. I totally agree but wish their was a way to change that with Wright or Johnson. If they could both get enough innings, which would be a bad thing, to make their trade value grow then I would trade one of then. But as of right now they are great assets to have. Great insurance for the rotation while picking up the BP. It also gives Cora the ability to keep the innings controlled for the starters, which I think is important, he can piggyback once in a while.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 15, 2018 9:04:18 GMT -5
On a side note and based on a sss to start the season we should be much more comfortable and optimistic about the rotation moving forward over the next few years. Not a terrible looking 5,6,7 if the Sox lose Pomeranz and need to spend money elsewhere, like our homegrown talent.
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Post by patford on Apr 15, 2018 9:05:53 GMT -5
If the technology is there to do it there is no place in sports where I would rather see automation than balls and strikes calls. What is needed is more than a rectangle. The zone also has depth so a cube of sorts which adjusts to the individual batter is needed.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 15, 2018 10:09:10 GMT -5
If the technology is there to do it there is no place in sports where I would rather see automation than balls and strikes calls. What is needed is more than a rectangle. The zone also has depth so a cube of sorts which adjusts to the individual batter is needed. The only argument against automated umpiring is that it removes an interesting skill, catcher pitch framing. But that doesn't have to be the case, and shouldn't be. In any automated system based on the average umpire, there's still going to be a "black zone" where strikes has been called about 50% of the time. How do you resolve those? I think it's fair to do it this way: if the catcher was set up that spot, or got his glove there quickly in anticipation of it being there, it should be a strike, but if the catcher had to lunge to get the ball, indicating it landed there by accident rather than by purpose, it's a ball. You'd include catcher glove movement for the entire area of the zone (a band surrounding the guaranteed strikes) where umpires have historically been inconsistent. Whether that should be every spot that is less than a 55/45 for results or every spot that is less than 60/40 (or something in between), you'd determine by experimentation. In the former, a pitch that has been a strike 55% of the time is only a ball if there's an egregious lunge, and a pitch that's a ball 55% of the time is only a strike if the catcher was sitting at that spot and the pitcher hit the glove. That would really look fair to us, more so than if you did it the "correct" way, because our eyes can't resolve the difference between the 50% spot and the 55% spot easily. An important aspect is removing bias by pitcher and hitter identity (e.g., Tanaka got a wider zone than everyone else Wednesday). We can debate whether the zone should expand a bit on a 3-0 count (which it does in practice, and often more than by a bit), but I would vote a strong no.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 15, 2018 10:29:18 GMT -5
Like many things I am going to put automated calls in the category of, " it's a matter of when not if." IMO and like dd said, if they can get it right then they should. Humans have been proven to not be perfect on something that is real important to the game. I think that the prospect of always getting it right is more important than catcher framing and old school baseball ideals. As it is teams, pitchers and batters can all lose based on human error that can easily be fixed. I know it seems like a real big deal but it really isn't. Hockey changed the rules on offsides calls and it was a tough sell at first for the purists, now many years later it has proven to be a great change. That was a much bigger change, all we are talking about is getting it right not a change to the actual rules of the game.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 15, 2018 10:53:40 GMT -5
It’s funny how much of an afterthought Pedroia has become. The nice thing is there will be no rush to get him back so hopefully he’s completely healthy. He’s shown that when healthy he still is one of the best second basemen out there not named Altuve. Assuming health for the rest of the team, I really hope he takes to a bottom third of the order role though. Adding a healthy Pedroia to the bottom of the order will nice, although, I’m not sure he can do that much better than Nunez. Right now Mookie, JDM, Xander and Hanley are the best 4 hitters. The final batting order will depend on whether Benny, Devers, both, or neither are good enough to be mixed in there with them. In most of the batting orders I'm sketching Pedroia hits 6th, head of Devers (sometimes Benintendi). Then Vazquez and Bradley. The exception is the dream lineup where both Benny and Devers are good enough to mix in with the big four. In that case, Hanley hits 6th and either Benny 2 and Devers 5, or Devers 3 and Benny 5. In that lineup, JBJ hits 7th and Pedey hits 9th as the second lead-off guy.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 15, 2018 11:10:32 GMT -5
Benintendi wRC+:
-48, first 4 games (0/11, 2 BB) 117, next 5 games (5/20, 2B, 7 BB) 186, last 4 games (6/20, 2 2B, 3B, 3 BB)
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 15, 2018 11:55:52 GMT -5
If the technology is there to do it there is no place in sports where I would rather see automation than balls and strikes calls. What is needed is more than a rectangle. The zone also has depth so a cube of sorts which adjusts to the individual batter is needed. My major concern with this is standardizing a players strike zone so much, that the player would become too proficient for the game. I know there are a lot of variables to getting a hit, so there's that. But like the NBA 3 pointer, which had outlived it usefulness and drastically changed the game, not for the better IMO, are you not concerned they will be able to lay most close pitches given their inevitable proficiency increase. Part of the value of having home plate umps, as frustrating as they can be, is their random strike zones, which works both for and against teams.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 15, 2018 12:14:47 GMT -5
Once again, Martinez takes forever to get to a ball in LF and causes a run to score. His defense CONTINUES to cost the team runs.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 15, 2018 12:27:06 GMT -5
Once again, Martinez takes forever to get to a ball in LF and causes a run to score. His defense CONTINUES to cost the team runs. And it likely will all year. But the bat will give more that the glove will take, we likely just have to get used to it. The hope is really tries to work at his craft to improve.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 15, 2018 12:29:00 GMT -5
Once again, Martinez takes forever to get to a ball in LF and causes a run to score. His defense CONTINUES to cost the team runs. And it likely will all year. But the bat will give more that the glove will take, we likely just have to get used to it. The hope is really tries to work at his craft to improve. It's dumb Jerry. This could all be avoided if he stays in the DH position and other players sub in at the outfield.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 15, 2018 12:31:58 GMT -5
It’s funny how much of an afterthought Pedroia has become. The nice thing is there will be no rush to get him back so hopefully he’s completely healthy. He’s shown that when healthy he still is one of the best second basemen out there not named Altuve. Assuming health for the rest of the team, I really hope he takes to a bottom third of the order role though. Adding a healthy Pedroia to the bottom of the order will nice, although, I’m not sure he can do that much better than Nunez. Right now Mookie, JDM, Xander and Hanley are the best 4 hitters. The final batting order will depend on whether Benny, Devers, both, or neither are good enough to be mixed in there with them. In most of the batting orders I'm sketching Pedroia hits 6th, head of Devers (sometimes Benintendi). Then Vazquez and Bradley. The exception is the dream lineup where both Benny and Devers are good enough to mix in with the big four. In that case, Hanley hits 6th and either Benny 2 and Devers 5, or Devers 3 and Benny 5. In that lineup, JBJ hits 7th and Pedey hits 9th as the second lead-off guy. Seems like kind of a moot point, since Cora has made clear we're virtually never going to see an ideal lineup. (I honestly don't know if that's for the best or not, but it is what we can expect.)
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 15, 2018 12:35:01 GMT -5
And it likely will all year. But the bat will give more that the glove will take, we likely just have to get used to it. The hope is really tries to work at his craft to improve. It's dumb Jerry. This could all be avoided if he stays in the DH position and other players sub in at the outfield. Not disagreeing too much, but it fits well with Cora's philosophy of resting players....etc....etc....etc. Besides there may have been a gentleman's agreement that he would get some time when signing the contract. I just think we gotta realize he gonna get his OF play and hope he gets better.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 15, 2018 12:38:34 GMT -5
Where is Sale's fastball?... 88-90???
Maybe he needs to build up arm strength altho he has thrown harder in prior starts....but still lower than last year. Maybe it's the cold or maybe he is pacing himself given that he tired last year.
Devers is much more aggressive this year and swinging harder....not letting the ball travel as much. Personally I'd like a bit less swinging from the heels.
Concern?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 15, 2018 12:41:02 GMT -5
It's dumb Jerry. This could all be avoided if he stays in the DH position and other players sub in at the outfield. Not disagreeing too much, but it fits well with Cora's philosophy of resting players....etc....etc....etc. Besides there may have been a gentleman's agreement that he would get some time when signing the contract. I just think we gotta realize he gonna get his OF play and hope he gets better. He's borderline Hanley Ramirez out there. It's not going to get better, if anything, he's risking further injury by being out there. Martinez isn't the most durable player either. The priority should be to keep him as healthy as possible all year.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 15, 2018 12:43:42 GMT -5
Where is Sale's fastball?... 88-90??? Maybe he needs to build up arm strength altho he has thrown harder in prior starts....but still lower than last year. Maybe it's the cold or maybe he is pacing himself given that he tired last year. Devers is much more aggressive this year and swinging harder....not letting the ball travel as much. Personally I'd like a bit less swinging from the heels. Concern? Devers just took 4 straight for a walk. Not sure what triggered that point. Sale just hit 93. He's pacing himself.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 15, 2018 12:47:28 GMT -5
Not disagreeing too much, but it fits well with Cora's philosophy of resting players....etc....etc....etc. Besides there may have been a gentleman's agreement that he would get some time when signing the contract. I just think we gotta realize he gonna get his OF play and hope he gets better. He's borderline Hanley Ramirez out there. It's not going to get better, if anything, he's risking further injury by being out there. Martinez isn't the most durable player either. The priority should be to keep him as healthy as possible all year. Yeah he looks stiff out their, not very athletic looking. Which is what can lead to those injuries. Hand shake deal or not he needs to embrace the DH role whole heartedly and realize it might be what is best for him and the team. Just hit the ball big guy.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 15, 2018 12:49:47 GMT -5
Home plate umpire has missed at least 3 or 4 strikes today.
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Post by Coreno on Apr 15, 2018 12:52:42 GMT -5
Not disagreeing too much, but it fits well with Cora's philosophy of resting players....etc....etc....etc. Besides there may have been a gentleman's agreement that he would get some time when signing the contract. I just think we gotta realize he gonna get his OF play and hope he gets better. He's borderline Hanley Ramirez out there. It's not going to get better, if anything, he's risking further injury by being out there. Martinez isn't the most durable player either. The priority should be to keep him as healthy as possible all year. No. ... He's not. No one ever will be.
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