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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2018 6:57:49 GMT -5
There’s a rumor that Marcus Smarts deal may actually work backwards. It will be front loaded and decline year to year to lower taxes down the road. That’s different and creative and actually works better for both sides if true. I wonder if there's a player opt out after 3 years if that's the case. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2018 6:59:36 GMT -5
Michael Porter Jr just underwent a second back surgery last week. No wonder why he fell so far. I wouldn't trust that either.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 7:49:55 GMT -5
There’s a rumor that Marcus Smarts deal may actually work backwards. It will be front loaded and decline year to year to lower taxes down the road. That’s different and creative and actually works better for both sides if true. I wonder if there's a player opt out after 3 years if that's the case. You never know but I seriously doubt it. He has no real leverage. Opt outs are for stars. Also, it seems like you are looking at it like Smart is sacrificing in a deal like this. In reality, he’s benefiting. If a playing is getting 50m total, he’d much rather get 20, 15, 10 and 5 then 5, 10, 15 and 20. Getting money today is more valuable than getting it tomorrow. It’s worth more due to Time Value of money etc. so in year 4 when he’s getting 5 it’s not an under payment. He was just advanced the money. Numbers were for illustrative purposes only. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 7:53:17 GMT -5
Michael Porter Jr just underwent a second back surgery last week. No wonder why he fell so far. I wouldn't trust that either. I don’t know any of the details on the surgery so I’m not sure this is an added concern or if they just took the opportunity to make things better. Like if he wasn’t already going to sit out a year was this necessary? But from the moment he was drafted, it was reported that this was likely to be a red shirt year. Still a smart gamble by Denver. The only way a franchise like that gets a star player is to develop him or trade for him. They are too good to get talents like him where they draft. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 9:01:27 GMT -5
“They don’t pay players to play defense”
Jabari Parker
That statement is so true yet shows how much of an idiot he is and if it’s any indication of his mindset and drive as a player it shows why he will never live up to his talent. Yea the injuries play a greater role, but taking those into account with regards to his ceiling, he will never reach it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 11:51:20 GMT -5
Smart 4/52... i have not seen yearly breakdowns
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 19, 2018 13:11:18 GMT -5
If the C's can stay healthy they will be a very deep team. Whatever their 2nd unit ends up being they will be good enough to beat some teams starters, IMO. They beat a decent Bucks team twice in the playoffs w.o. 3 of their top 6 players, no Irving, Heyward or Smart and they win 2 playoff games.
In all honesty how many teams have a starting backcourt better than Rozier and Smart who will be coming off the bench? Maybe not even half the teams in the NBA.
Season can't get here soon enough. With a weak East and good health what is a realistic win total?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 13:21:53 GMT -5
In all honesty how many teams have a starting backcourt better than Rozier and Smart who will be coming off the bench? Maybe not even half the teams . I’ll go thru the teams later but I’ll guess the vast majority of the teams do. I’ll guess 24 |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 19, 2018 15:54:04 GMT -5
In all honesty how many teams have a starting backcourt better than Rozier and Smart who will be coming off the bench? Maybe not even half the teams . I’ll go thru the teams later but I’ll guess the vast majority of the teams do. I’ll guess 24 I was spitballing before but after some thought I am sticking with half. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 17:02:24 GMT -5
No options and it’s a standard structure with ascending salaries.  |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 18:27:13 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 19, 2018 20:43:49 GMT -5
I’ll go thru the teams later but I’ll guess the vast majority of the teams do. I’ll guess 24 I was spitballing before but after some thought I am sticking with half. Ok here’s my quick breakdown: I got 21 better and 6 arguments can’t be made. Only 2 they would clearly be better than. If Conley is healthy, he’s head and shoulders the best player so if they had anyone half decent they are better. Lin, when healthy is really a very very good PG and helps his teams win and we don’t know what Young will be so Atlanta might be better than them too. Brooklyn with Russel and Crabbe was another I lean in their favor but it’s debatable so I left them in the other category. The only other one I slightly question is Detroit. So for me it’s an easy 20 but I came in at 21. Definitely better: Charlotte: Walker/Batum Chicago: Dunn/LaVine Dallas: Smith/Doncic Denver: Murray/Harris Detroit: Jackson/Bullock Golden State: curry/Thompson Houston: Paul/Harden Indiana: Collison/Oladipo Lakers: Ball/KCP Miami: Dragic/Waiter Minnesota: Teague/Wiggins Milwaukee: Bledsoe/Brogdon New Orleans: Payton/Holiday OKC: Westbrook/Robertson Philly: Simmons/Reddick Phoenix: Knight/Booker Portland: Lillard/McCollum San Antonio: Murray/DeRozen Toronto: Lowrie/Green Utah: Rubio/Mitchell Washington: Wall/ Beal Can debate: Atlanta: Lin/Bazemore Brooklyn: Russel/ Crabbe Cleveland: Sexton/Smith Memphis: Conley and anyone New York: Burke/Hardaway Sacramento: Fox/Bogdonovic Worse Clippers: ?? Orlando |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 19, 2018 23:24:38 GMT -5
Funny how Smarts qualifying offer and Morris's salary are almost exactly equal to Smarts new salary. Its like the Celtics maxed out the number that allow them to stay under the tax line. Nice. A backwards contract never made sense, as the tax savings in the future would never equal an extra tax year.
As to the debate of about Smart and Rozier being better. Whats the criteria? We going to look at something stupid like points or being able to help a team win?
How is Dunn and LaVine definitely better? I don't agree with a lot of them. Jackson Bullock? I think Minny would be a much better team with Smart and Rozier than Wiggins and Teague. Payton and Holiday? That's should be in the debate section. Rozier in the playoffs did things a ton of these guy have never done.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2018 6:28:09 GMT -5
Funny how Smarts qualifying offer and Morris's salary are almost exactly equal to Smarts new salary. Its like the Celtics maxed out the number that allow them to stay under the tax line. Nice. A backwards contract never made sense, as the tax savings in the future would never equal an extra tax year. As to the debate of about Smart and Rozier being better. Whats the criteria? We going to look at something stupid like points or being able to help a team win? How is Dunn and LaVine definitely better? I don't agree with a lot of them. Jackson Bullock? I think Minny would be a much better team with Smart and Rozier than Wiggins and Teague. Payton and Holiday? That's should be in the debate section. Rozier in the playoffs did things a ton of these guy have never done. Well if we go by your criteria, a back court with Rozier in place or Kyrie will be better it in the debatable section.  Sorry had to - was just a lighthearted joke - I really don’t want to go back down that path |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 20, 2018 7:10:27 GMT -5
Roziers sss is a factor but didn't he out play Bledsoe in the playoffs? How real is his turnover ratio? Smart looks bad in offensive eff but how about +/- and game altering plays? Rozier is pretty good defensively also. I think some good arguments could be made in favor of the C's over a few of those you listed. One way or another the point is that they are the 2nd unit and they should really dominate other teams reserves.
Who is going to be most unhappy with minutes played? Morris?
Are the C's actually under the tax?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 20, 2018 7:52:50 GMT -5
It is exciting to think about the different combos the C's will be able to throw out there against other teams 2nd units. Heyward for instance could get a lot of minutes with them along with Tatum, between the 2 of them Stevens could always have 1 of them on the floor.
We talked last year about defensive intensity and not being able to sustain that level all season. I think we will be watching some pretty intense D this year and nobody averaging much more than 30 minutes a game.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2018 9:58:23 GMT -5
It is exciting to think about the different combos the C's will be able to throw out there against other teams 2nd units. Heyward for instance could get a lot of minutes with them along with Tatum, between the 2 of them Stevens could always have 1 of them on the floor. We talked last year about defensive intensity and not being able to sustain that level all season. I think we will be watching some pretty intense D this year and nobody averaging much more than 30 minutes a game. If it is a big game there’s basically no reason you wouldn’t always have 2 of your starters on the court at all times. Assuming the most used starting 5 is: Kyrie Brown Hayward Tatum Horford Baynes will start some games and my guess is Brown comes off the bench in those spots. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2018 10:05:37 GMT -5
Funny how Smarts qualifying offer and Morris's salary are almost exactly equal to Smarts new salary. Its like the Celtics maxed out the number that allow them to stay under the tax line. Nice. A backwards contract never made sense, as the tax savings in the future would never equal an extra tax year. You know where Morris would be perfect and they can take him without giving you money back? OKC |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2018 17:32:52 GMT -5
This is a dumb question, but out of curiosity, is a player like Okafor eligible for a 2 way contract? Even if he were I doubt he’d sign one. He’d be better off going to Europe or China to get a big pay check. But if he was, with the Celtics development success, I wonder if it would be of interest.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 20, 2018 17:42:19 GMT -5
Funny how Smarts qualifying offer and Morris's salary are almost exactly equal to Smarts new salary. Its like the Celtics maxed out the number that allow them to stay under the tax line. Nice. A backwards contract never made sense, as the tax savings in the future would never equal an extra tax year. You know where Morris would be perfect and they can take him without giving you money back? OKC How? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2018 19:00:41 GMT -5
You know where Morris would be perfect and they can take him without giving you money back? OKC How? They got an 11m trade exception in the Carmelo deal. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 21, 2018 13:19:56 GMT -5
Celtics waived Nader today
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 22, 2018 7:25:57 GMT -5
What are the chances the C's don't move Morris now? Seems obvious that they would want to stay below the cap this year and his minutes will take a hit with GH coming back.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 22, 2018 9:56:23 GMT -5
What are the chances the C's don't move Morris now? Seems obvious that they would want to stay below the cap this year and his minutes will take a hit with GH coming back. I’m not sure; I’d need an analysis of the chances they can stay under by trading him. If they deal him and don’t bring anyone back then they have 2 open roster spots and they’ll need to fill them which costs money. Also, by signing Smart they list the nontax payer Mid level Exception (side note: they don’t get it back even if they go back under because they went over to sign Smart). So by trading Morris and his 5.375m contract, they’d open 2 roster spots they’d need to fill 2 spots. A veteran minimum is 2m, a guy like Bird would be under a million, but how much would you really be saving? I think at this point he’s not being traded because, I don’t think it’s realistic to stay under the tax. I’m going to predict the Celtics trade for Butler in December. The Timberwolves will be doing pretty well but he will make it clear he wants out. Minny won’t want to start over so a deal of Smart, Morris and the Memphis pick would make a lot of sense for them. Salaries just happen to match as well. I don’t love giving 30 year old Butler a 5 year max deal, but if it guarantees you keep Kyrie and true team together then it’s completely worth it. Also, Kyrie, Butler, Hayward, Tatum and Horford with Rozier, Brown, Theis, Baynes and a sprinkle of Semi, coming off the bench will beat Golden State this year ;-) |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 22, 2018 13:34:50 GMT -5
I think they can afford to have the last 2 guys on the roster be minimum guys, not as if they need them to play any meaningful minutes. The calculation is how much it hurts in the future as far as the cap tax goes. I don't know what that is but the tax in the future is what will be much more costly in keeping the group together.
On the other hand if they pulled off what you have proposed they could start the championship run early. How long could they keep that team together? Horford and GH line up with Brown, Tatum. Would Horford and or GH take LT deals at lower annuals to stick around?
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