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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2018 20:01:34 GMT -5
Having Britton will really shorten games for the Yankees, plus they probably have concerns about Chapman's knees going forward this season. Plus they get to play keep away from the Red Sox in this deal as well. This isn't that different from what they did last deadline.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 24, 2018 20:08:03 GMT -5
Earlier today, Joel Sherman said on MLB radio that he heard that while the Sox were in on Britton, they were focusing on the Padres Yates or Stammen.
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Post by ortiz34 on Jul 24, 2018 20:11:06 GMT -5
Earlier today, Joel Sherman said on MLB radio that he heard that while the Sox were in on Britton, they were focusing on the Padres Yates or Stammen. I'll take Yates but i don't trust Preller. Dude is a snake.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 24, 2018 20:12:37 GMT -5
Joel Sherman reporting the prospects going in the Britton trade are Dillon Tate, Josh Rogers and Cody Carroll. Link
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 24, 2018 20:45:21 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that he's going to the Yankees, but I'm happy that they at least paid a decent amount for him. Tate was a top 10 prospect in their system and Carroll was a guy that was just outside it. I've liked Carroll since he was barely in the Yankees top 30 prospects a year or so ago. The 3 prospects plus the money seems reasonable, and this move is a "win the World Series or bust" move, and I don't think Britton increases their chances of winning the World Series by enough to make it worth it.
Not to mention that if they want to make a move for a starter, their prospect pool is a little thinner and will look even worse once that trade is completed.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 24, 2018 21:25:48 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that he's going to the Yankees, but I'm happy that they at least paid a decent amount for him. Tate was a top 10 prospect in their system and Carroll was a guy that was just outside it. I've liked Carroll since he was barely in the Yankees top 30 prospects a year or so ago. The 3 prospects plus the money seems reasonable, and this move is a "win the World Series or bust" move, and I don't think Britton increases their chances of winning the World Series by enough to make it worth it. Not to mention that if they want to make a move for a starter, their prospect pool is a little thinner and will look even worse once that trade is completed. I’d’ve loved to get Britton but I agree with your thinking. I do believe that he makes them a better playoff team, but they are going to need a starter. At least one. And Severino needs to get right, because I think it’s unlikely that CC or especially Gray or Tanaka is the answer. My guess is they spend big and get a legit starter, but Snell is down with a shoulder issue and idk if the Mets deal unless they’re blown away. So we’ll see. Great move for NY though, because they have prospects to burn.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 24, 2018 21:44:30 GMT -5
Tate's okay. He's the sort of guy you can give up for Britton when you have a deep system, but it's not a great value play. I like Mike Shawaryn better, and I'm not saying that as a homer-- I don't think I'd personally have either in the Yankees top 10, but people who know better than me do have Tate there. Still, Tate plus others is a good get for Baltimore for 10 weeks of a pitcher they don't need and maaaybe isn't good anymore.
I think we should start moving beyond the starters/relievers conception. All this talk that the Yankees need starters and have good relievers... but what they need is innings, right? If they can get more effective innings from several non-starting-pitchers (or non-traditional starters), then they did well.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 24, 2018 22:32:16 GMT -5
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 24, 2018 23:42:31 GMT -5
DDo does have a track record for evaluating his own prospects, going back to the Cabrera trade. It may be sophomore slumping, but Moncada and Margot are on a pace for 4.4 bWAR combined. Kopech just had 20 K and 2 BB in his last 2 starts, but in his previous 7 he had 31 BB and 5 HBP in 31 IP (and a 6.10 ERA). He had already demonstrated (in the AFL) before the trade that he was capable of stretches of decent length where he could really throw strikes, but nearly two years later he's demonstrating that he's still prone to even longer ones where he loses his mechanics completely. I still think he can be an ace, but it's not happening soon.
Which is a long way of saying that if DDo pays what appears to be too steep a price for Yates, I'll be less skeptical than I would have been.
In the meantime, I think Stammen (whom I like better than Soria but not as much as Romo) makes sense only if Thornburg projects to be not as good. Otherwise, I'd rather grab Duke or Diekman to give Cora a non-redundant extra option.
Let's look at the roster ... picking up both a LHR and a RHR would mean optioning Velazquez (or sending Pomeranz back to the phantom DL), and trimming either Kelly or Workman, or both if you want a 4-man bench, which may well be the case if they can add Dozier. Stammen or Romo or Soria's not going to be 1.5 bWAR / season better than Workman in Workman's role ... it's a desirable move if you can't trust Thornburg in the 7th and 8th, but right now I'm betting that by 7/31 we will.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 25, 2018 0:28:05 GMT -5
Tate's okay. He's the sort of guy you can give up for Britton when you have a deep system, but it's not a great value play. I like Mike Shawaryn better, and I'm not saying that as a homer-- I don't think I'd personally have either in the Yankees top 10, but people who know better than me do have Tate there. Still, Tate plus others is a good get for Baltimore for 10 weeks of a pitcher they don't need and maaaybe isn't good anymore. I think we should start moving beyond the starters/relievers conception. All this talk that the Yankees need starters and have good relievers... but what they need is innings, right? If they can get more effective innings from several non-starting-pitchers (or non-traditional starters), then they did well. I also like Shawaryn more, as Tate's fastball has no movement. He's doing fairly good, but seems to be still living off being a top 5 pick. Still what's the comp for the Sox like Beeks/Shawaryn, Buttrey/Lakin, and Jerez/Crawford/Raudes? That's a ton for a risky pitcher, if we had a massive need ok, but we don't. Neither do the Yankees. Looking at the top 8 that have pitched 20 or more innings, it's crazy how good they have been. Chapman, Green, Robertson, Betances, Shreve, Holder, Warren and Cole. Everyone but Holder is averaging 10.9 or more strikeouts per 9, everyone but Shreve has an ERA and FIP equal or under 3.05, and everyone but Shreve and Warren has a WHIP equal or below 1.021. I just don't get this trade, he's going to have to be awesome to even have an impact. They had a bunch of guys to throw innings having great years, along with a top of the bullpen that includes proven studs like Chapman, Robertson, and Betances.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 25, 2018 0:38:25 GMT -5
DDo does have a track record for evaluating his own prospects, going back to the Cabrera trade. It may be sophomore slumping, but Moncada and Margot are on a pace for 4.4 bWAR combined. Kopech just had 20 K and 2 BB in his last 2 starts, but in his previous 7 he had 31 BB and 5 HBP in 31 IP (and a 6.10 ERA). He had already demonstrated (in the AFL) before the trade that he was capable of stretches of decent length where he could really throw strikes, but nearly two years later he's demonstrating that he's still prone to even longer ones where he loses his mechanics completely. I still think he can be an ace, but it's not happening soon.
Which is a long way of saying that if DDo pays what appears to be too steep a price for Yates, I'll be less skeptical than I would have been.
In the meantime, I think Stammen (whom I like better than Soria but not as much as Romo) makes sense only if Thornburg projects to be not as good. Otherwise, I'd rather grab Duke or Diekman to give Cora a non-redundant extra option.
Let's look at the roster ... picking up both a LHR and a RHR would mean optioning Velazquez (or sending Pomeranz back to the phantom DL), and trimming either Kelly or Workman, or both if you want a 4-man bench, which may well be the case if they can add Dozier. Stammen or Romo or Soria's not going to be 1.5 bWAR / season better than Workman in Workman's role ... it's a desirable move if you can't trust Thornburg in the 7th and 8th, but right now I'm betting that by 7/31 we will.
I might not always agree with your projections, but Romo makes perfect sense. Older guy on one year deal, already pitching in AL East, good track record and has pitched better than his traditional numbers indicate. Sign me up on that one. As for DD yes he 100% does have a track record for winning those big trades. I'd just rather he save those bullets for something other than a bullpen arm.
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Post by awall on Jul 25, 2018 6:00:34 GMT -5
Just get Fiers, please. I don't expect anything from Wright or Rodriguez the rest of the way and I can't handle the prospect of watching Pomeranz pitch in any meaningful games.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 25, 2018 8:55:28 GMT -5
I'd love for the Sox to get Britton, but now I'm wondering if the Sox would have to surrender at least one of Houck, Mata, Chavis, Groome, or Dalbec to come away with him given all the competition. I'd hate to see the Sox have to part with any of those five guys, but I'd think they'd have to in order to top Houston (who I think will wind up with him), NYY, or Milwaukee. I'd rather they part with lesser prospects for Soria if it takes any of those guys to get Britton. I still can't get Crasnick's scout's quote about the Sox going after "The Big Dogs". I'm sure they wanted guys like Ottavino, perhaps Wade Davis, and Treinen, but with Colorado and Oakland very much in it, that's not happening. I can't imagine that Fernando Rodney would be a "Big Dog". Makes me wonder if the Sox are going after Iglesias from Cincinnati with the intent of pairing him with Kimbrel this season and then letting Kimbrel walk after the season. In that scenario I would think Houck and/or Mata would be a goner among others. I'd rather the Sox go with Soria if Britton is too much to get and keep the system intact rather than doing what Cleveland did. The "Big Dogs" Crasnik was referring to were Frank Wren and Allard Baird: "The Red Sox have Frank Wren and Allard Baird scouring the market for relievers. 'The big dogs,' said one scout." A "bird dog" scout is a part-timer, a consultant who's not on the regular payroll. So a "big dog" is an ex-GM or Assistant GM who is not working a regular scouting beat but who evaluates really big decisions. The point was that we had our two most trusted and experienced player evaluation advisors out there looking at guys. As I immediately noted, that actually shouldn't be news, because that's their job.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2018 9:25:27 GMT -5
I'd love for the Sox to get Britton, but now I'm wondering if the Sox would have to surrender at least one of Houck, Mata, Chavis, Groome, or Dalbec to come away with him given all the competition. I'd hate to see the Sox have to part with any of those five guys, but I'd think they'd have to in order to top Houston (who I think will wind up with him), NYY, or Milwaukee. I'd rather they part with lesser prospects for Soria if it takes any of those guys to get Britton. I still can't get Crasnick's scout's quote about the Sox going after "The Big Dogs". I'm sure they wanted guys like Ottavino, perhaps Wade Davis, and Treinen, but with Colorado and Oakland very much in it, that's not happening. I can't imagine that Fernando Rodney would be a "Big Dog". Makes me wonder if the Sox are going after Iglesias from Cincinnati with the intent of pairing him with Kimbrel this season and then letting Kimbrel walk after the season. In that scenario I would think Houck and/or Mata would be a goner among others. I'd rather the Sox go with Soria if Britton is too much to get and keep the system intact rather than doing what Cleveland did. The "Big Dogs" Crasnik was referring to were Frank Wren and Allard Baird: "The Red Sox have Frank Wren and Allard Baird scouring the market for relievers. 'The big dogs,' said one scout." A "bird dog" scout is a part-timer, a consultant who's not on the regular payroll. So a "big dog" is an ex-GM or Assistant GM who is not working a regular scouting beat but who evaluates really big decisions. The point was that we had our two most trusted and experienced player evaluation advisors out there looking at guys. As I immediately noted, that actually shouldn't be news, because that's their job.
Oh...thanks for clarifying. I had read that they were looking for a pitcher that's not Kimbrel (who is?) but as good if not better than what Barnes has given them - a guy with closing and/or high leverage experience. So when he said "big dogs" I mistakenly though that the Sox were going after the "big dogs". Now I understand and yeah, that's hardly a newsflash. The only thing I get out of that was they've been looking at KC/Minnesota a lot. Hopefully Dozier?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 25, 2018 9:40:31 GMT -5
Just get Fiers, please. I don't expect anything from Wright or Rodriguez the rest of the way and I can't handle the prospect of watching Pomeranz pitch in any meaningful games. At the deadline in 2003 the Sox needed a SP and made a pair of trades that ended up dealing Freddy Sanchez (13.5 bWAR for the Pirates, including a best of 4.4) for Jeff Suppan (0.3) and reliever Scott Sauerbeck (-0.3). Suppan made 10 starts for us and had a 5.86 ERA. As we confirmed a year later when he faced us in the WS, he just couldn't get good lineups out.
The reason I mention this is that our alternative, our best starter in AAA, was in the process of fanning 155 and walking 23 in 149.2 IP, with a 3.43 ERA. He wasn't on the 40-man because he had run out of options with his previous team -- the Pirates! -- and we had nabbed him on waivers the previous winter, after what appeared to be a breakout year in AAA. Since we didn't know whether he was for real, we barely pitched him in ST and sneaked him through waivers again just before the season started.
We did end up adding him to the bullpen, where he put up 0.5 WAR in just 17 IP. The next year he made the team as the long man / righty specialist in the pen, and when 5th starter Byung-Hyun Kim got hurt after 3 GS, he went into the rotation and put up 2.6 WAR in 29 starts. (It's often said that a reason for the '04 team's success was that they had no injuries to the starting pitching, but in fact they had one so soon and so severe it was forgotten).
The point here is that we traded a top prospect to fill a need when we had an internal option that was literally 3.0 times as good. (And a vastly better singer / guitarist!) That's a rule of thumb: trust your internal options when they seem to be adequate.
There's no evidence that Fiers (who doesn't really have the ability to only give up back-to-back hits with two outs) is significantly better than Hector Velazquez. Even the upgrade from Velazquez to Kyle Gibson or Zack Wheeler wouldn't amount to more than half a win over 1 1/2 or two months.
If they suffer another injury, you can grab a competent fifth starter on the waiver wire. But it's probably just as likely, if not more so, that Pomeranz figures it out while pitching more often in the pen as Velazquez's replacement for low-leverage work.
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Post by Coreno on Jul 25, 2018 9:52:08 GMT -5
I quit.
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Post by artfuldodger on Jul 25, 2018 10:01:07 GMT -5
Quality pickup to get Eovaldi:
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 25, 2018 10:22:29 GMT -5
The "Big Dogs" Crasnik was referring to were Frank Wren and Allard Baird: "The Red Sox have Frank Wren and Allard Baird scouring the market for relievers. 'The big dogs,' said one scout." A "bird dog" scout is a part-timer, a consultant who's not on the regular payroll. So a "big dog" is an ex-GM or Assistant GM who is not working a regular scouting beat but who evaluates really big decisions. The point was that we had our two most trusted and experienced player evaluation advisors out there looking at guys. As I immediately noted, that actually shouldn't be news, because that's their job.
Oh...thanks for clarifying. I had read that they were looking for a pitcher that's not Kimbrel (who is?) but as good if not better than what Barnes has given them - a guy with closing and/or high leverage experience. So when he said "big dogs" I mistakenly though that the Sox were going after the "big dogs". Now I understand and yeah, that's hardly a newsflash. The only thing I get out of that was they've been looking at KC/Minnesota a lot. Hopefully Dozier? It seems that everyone here wants Dozier. He has to be a target. It's worth looking to see who else might be a suitor.
The Nationals have the next worst WAA at 2B, but that's because Daniel Murphy was out till mid-June and didn't start playing 2B until this month. His bat is starting to come alive.
The Rockies might be interested, as LeMahieu is back on the DL with an oblique strain. But they've called up #8 prospect Garrett Hampson and he's been OK+ so far.
The Giants are in a very similar position -- quality guy having a down year because of injuries. But Joe Panik is expected back from his groin strain in early August, and his replacements, Alen Hanson and Kelby Tomlinson, have actually been good.
It actually looks like a buyer's market to me.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 25, 2018 10:32:51 GMT -5
Beeks to the Rays.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Jul 25, 2018 11:16:17 GMT -5
Does anyone know how much over or under the salary cap for the year the Red Sox are after this trade?
Sure hope they are not just over.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2018 11:19:48 GMT -5
Oh...thanks for clarifying. I had read that they were looking for a pitcher that's not Kimbrel (who is?) but as good if not better than what Barnes has given them - a guy with closing and/or high leverage experience. So when he said "big dogs" I mistakenly though that the Sox were going after the "big dogs". Now I understand and yeah, that's hardly a newsflash. The only thing I get out of that was they've been looking at KC/Minnesota a lot. Hopefully Dozier? It seems that everyone here wants Dozier. He has to be a target. It's worth looking to see who else might be a suitor. The Nationals have the next worst WAA at 2B, but that's because Daniel Murphy was out till mid-June and didn't start playing 2B until this month. His bat is starting to come alive. The Rockies might be interested, as LeMahieu is back on the DL with an oblique strain. But they've called up #8 prospect Garrett Hampson and he's been OK+ so far.
The Giants are in a very similar position -- quality guy having a down year because of injuries. But Joe Panik is expected back from his groin strain in early August, and his replacements, Alen Hanson and Kelby Tomlinson, have actually been good. It actually looks like a buyer's market to me.
I would think the Brewers would be looking at upgrading 2b. If I had to guess where he'd go I'd say Milwaukee, but then again I thought Britton was going to Houston.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 25, 2018 12:15:07 GMT -5
It seems that everyone here wants Dozier. He has to be a target. It's worth looking to see who else might be a suitor. The Nationals have the next worst WAA at 2B, but that's because Daniel Murphy was out till mid-June and didn't start playing 2B until this month. His bat is starting to come alive. The Rockies might be interested, as LeMahieu is back on the DL with an oblique strain. But they've called up #8 prospect Garrett Hampson and he's been OK+ so far.
The Giants are in a very similar position -- quality guy having a down year because of injuries. But Joe Panik is expected back from his groin strain in early August, and his replacements, Alen Hanson and Kelby Tomlinson, have actually been good. It actually looks like a buyer's market to me.
I would think the Brewers would be looking at upgrading 2b. If I had to guess where he'd go I'd say Milwaukee, but then again I thought Britton was going to Houston. A lot of media guesses to that effect, but Jonathan Villar's been playing great D for them and actually has more bWAR in about 60% of the PT.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 25, 2018 12:56:05 GMT -5
The last thing the Sox *really* need is a second baseman. Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later. Nunez and Holt haven't been hitting much lately.
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Post by wildsox on Jul 25, 2018 13:21:02 GMT -5
Have we given up on Brandon Phillips? I haven't heard much about him even being an option any longer.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 25, 2018 14:22:58 GMT -5
Have we given up on Brandon Phillips? I haven't heard much about him even being an option any longer. Small sample and all but not really getting it done in AAA. Journeyman Tony Renda tearing it up much more than Phillips, btw. Very small sample, as well - about 150 PAs between AA-AAA but he is lighting it up.
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