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2018-19 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 14, 2019 5:56:44 GMT -5
Speaking of Ohtani. Lol, he's funny too. Is there anything this guy can't do?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 14, 2019 5:59:42 GMT -5
Man, Kikuchi's delievery looks exactly like a reverse Dice-K from the left side. Hides the ball really well too.
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Post by orion09 on Feb 14, 2019 14:13:03 GMT -5
Man, Kikuchi's delievery looks exactly like a reverse Dice-K from the left side. Hides the ball really well too. Yeah, he hides the ball super well. Gonna be fun to watch.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 14, 2019 16:50:13 GMT -5
This Nola extension is great for the Phils, but borderline malpractice by Nola’s agent.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 14, 2019 19:13:17 GMT -5
This Nola extension is great for the Phils, but borderline malpractice by Nola’s agent. What’s malpractice about securing a life time of security for a 25 year old? If all works out for him he’s banked 56m and is a free agent at 30 with the new CBA... he’s happy where he’s at and gets life changing money with a chance to earn a lot more if he stays healthy and if he doesn’t he gets the money. This notion that players are stupid when they sign these contracts is ignorant and implies the player doesn’t know what he’s doing. Brandon Webb, Mark Prior, Matt Harvey, Tim Lincecum (was bailed out by Brian Saeban or it would have been bad) and many others are cautionary tales for young pitchers. They are always their next start away from their career just ending. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money when it’s there in this form. In fact, it’s pretty smart. Edit: my apologies, I don’t mean to call you ignorant.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 14, 2019 19:51:42 GMT -5
This Nola extension is great for the Phils, but borderline malpractice by Nola’s agent. What’s malpractice about securing a life time of security for a 25 year old? If all works out for him he’s banked 56m and is a free agent at 30 with the new CBA... he’s happy where he’s at and gets life changing money with a chance to earn a lot more if he stays healthy and if he doesn’t he gets the money. This notion that players are stupid when they sign these contracts is ignorant and implies the player doesn’t know what he’s doing. Brandon Webb, Mark Prior, Matt Harvey, Tim Lincecum (was bailed out by Brian Saeban or it would have been bad) and many others are cautionary tales for young pitchers. They are always their next start away from their career just ending. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money when it’s there in this form. In fact, it’s pretty smart. Edit: my apologies, I don’t mean to call you ignorant. No worries. I’m usually a fan of the player trading a year or two of free agency to earn big bucks now, but I think Nola got sold short here. The option year is my particular quibble. I think they left money on the table there and his FA year. As for injury, I think as a CY candiate,if he went to arb he likely would’ve gotten the $6.7M he asked for, or very close. Even if he blew up his arm, it is unlikely he’d be non-tendered between now and Free Agency and he’d still pull an aggregate pf well over $14M, more than enough to be set for life. His current and perceived future value barring injury for this length of time is in excess of $30M per year. Granted he won’t get that in arb, but I think with the threat offree agency, he shoudl’ve been able to get $25M AAV for his first free agent year and the option year. Other things figure into the player’s decision, obviously, but this deal seems $10-15M light to me at least. Then again, I’m no agent.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 14, 2019 19:53:27 GMT -5
The Nola deal is bad because of the rules in baseball that make a team control a young player making peanuts for far longer than they probably should. We frequently see these deals and ask ourselves like why is that guy doing that when fact is he doesn't have much of a choice. Like RJP said, he either takes a discount and gets set for life or risk injury. This is such an easy choice.
Less pre-FA years and non-guaranteed contracts with large bonuses, those are a good compromise for the next CBA.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 14, 2019 20:13:44 GMT -5
Man, Kikuchi's delievery looks exactly like a reverse Dice-K from the left side. Hides the ball really well too. I think he’s gonna be a Seattle star. Not quite good enough to be a national one (and, he’s in Seattle), but I think the PacNW will love him. Looks like he has an odd little double-hitch with his kick, but he’s on-line, lands real smoothly on line, and yeah...boy, that ball is hidden the *whole* time. My guess is he’s good enough they exercise his option and it’s a 7-year deal. Should be around when the retooling bears fruit. I hope Sheffield is awesome, too.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 14, 2019 20:33:12 GMT -5
What’s malpractice about securing a life time of security for a 25 year old? If all works out for him he’s banked 56m and is a free agent at 30 with the new CBA... he’s happy where he’s at and gets life changing money with a chance to earn a lot more if he stays healthy and if he doesn’t he gets the money. This notion that players are stupid when they sign these contracts is ignorant and implies the player doesn’t know what he’s doing. Brandon Webb, Mark Prior, Matt Harvey, Tim Lincecum (was bailed out by Brian Saeban or it would have been bad) and many others are cautionary tales for young pitchers. They are always their next start away from their career just ending. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money when it’s there in this form. In fact, it’s pretty smart. Edit: my apologies, I don’t mean to call you ignorant. No worries. I’m usually a fan of the player trading a year or two of free agency to earn big bucks now, but I think Nola got sold short here. The option year is my particular quibble. I think they left money on the table there and his FA year. As for injury, I think as a CY candiate,if he went to arb he likely would’ve gotten the $6.7M he asked for, or very close. Even if he blew up his arm, it is unlikely he’d be non-tendered between now and Free Agency and he’d still pull an aggregate pf well over $14M, more than enough to be set for life. His current and perceived future value barring injury for this length of time is in excess of $30M per year. Granted he won’t get that in arb, but I think with the threat offree agency, he shoudl’ve been able to get $25M AAV for his first free agent year and the option year. Other things figure into the player’s decision, obviously, but this deal seems $10-15M light to me at least. Then again, I’m no agent. Idk...look at Sale’s deal. Or Carlos Carrasco (?!?!). I mean, you have a point about what’s likely to be an escalating salary were he to go year-to-year. The arb process, if I recall, is old-school stars like W-L, ERA, IP, SO. Nola probably does well there, particularly given his last two years. He probably gets $7M-$13M-$20M if he pitches as he has. His career start is pretty similar to DeGrom’s. And HE just got $18M? I wouldn’t call Nola an “ace,” not yet, but he’s certainly on track to earn that moniker. With three 4-6 WAR campaigns, he’d basically establish himself as a 1a/true 1 (depending on where he falls on that WAR spectrum), and Corbin got 6/140 on one year at that level. So your $30M AAV (floor) estimate is probably right on. But it’s also guaranteed money, and I’d bet he figures he still has one big payday left. Probably still gets that $30M AAV at 30 if he’s averaging 5 WAR/yr. In the end, agents don’t do deals their clients don’t OK...my guess is that he just puts more weight on other factors than many players do. I find it kinda refreshing, tbh. He obviously likes Philly and likes their chances. Who knows, maybe they whispered in his ear that they’re going hard after Harper *and* Machado.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 15, 2019 1:26:25 GMT -5
I've never heard of a left handed Knuckleball before. Anyone else ever see one?
Must be more rare than seeing a screwball, a pitch I have only seen thrown by one major leaguer (I wasn't old enough to watch Fernando Venezuela).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 15, 2019 1:38:23 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2019 6:21:33 GMT -5
The Nola deal is bad because of the rules in baseball that make a team control a young player making peanuts for far longer than they probably should. We frequently see these deals and ask ourselves like why is that guy doing that when fact is he doesn't have much of a choice. Like RJP said, he either takes a discount and gets set for life or risk injury. This is such an easy choice. Less pre-FA years and non-guaranteed contracts with large bonuses, those are a good compromise for the next CBA. Both Football and Basketball lock in most of the top guys for 5 years. All first round picks in both sports. Football even has the franchise tag which stops guys from getting huge long-term deals. Is the system really bad? Nola just got what Gronk took for an extension and he got a lot more guaranteed money than Gronk did. What he did was smart. If he wanted to gamble look at Betts, on pace to make 50 million in his last two years of team control. I don't see how it was the system. He wouldn't be a free agent in any other sport right now. Just like with Gronk he took the money to make sure he's set for life. It's 100% guaranteed.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 15, 2019 11:13:36 GMT -5
Both Football and Basketball lock in most of the top guys for 5 years. All first round picks in both sports. Football even has the franchise tag which stops guys from getting huge long-term deals. Is the system really bad? Nola just got what Gronk took for an extension and he got a lot more guaranteed money than Gronk did. What he did was smart. If he wanted to gamble look at Betts, on pace to make 50 million in his last two years of team control. I don't see how it was the system. He wouldn't be a free agent in any other sport right now. Just like with Gronk he took the money to make sure he's set for life. It's 100% guaranteed. The initial salary for drafted players in the NBA and the NFL is higher than the minimum they make in the MLB, that's the main difference. I do think the system is bad, the average salary in the MLB last season was just a touch above 4 million dollars. And that's with overpaid (declining or not) players making most of that. Imagine you're Christian Vazquez and you started most of the season but then you have teammates making THIRTY times what you're making. This doesn't work like that in any other field, you're never going to perform the same job as someone being paid such a ridiculously higher amount than you are. People who fight the good fight against the "billionaires" often kid themselves thinking they're fighting the IMBALANCE IN SOCIETY, but it doesn't get more imbalanced than that. Pablo Sandoval was paid nearly double of what legendary MVP Mookie Betts received and he was exiled to the land burgers and milkshakes, how is that fair? It is what it is and I know that, it's just a bit jarring and probably could be done better. I'm not an expert on anything, but to me there's a clear path to be taken here. Create a minimum cap based on the team's revenue that they cannot go under or the owner will get executed, create prorated salaries for everyone that stays in the 40 man roster for over a year based on said minimum cap at some reasonable proportion, do away with guaranteed contracts and create some kind of maximum salary like you have in the NBA. Spread the wealth, I don't care about Manny Machado making as much money as Suriname for the next 10 years, I don't want Matt Barnes to toil away at a Wendy's serving Pablo Sandoval, who's feeling adventurous that day, if he breaks a leg real bad tomorrow.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2019 11:20:33 GMT -5
The Nola deal is bad because of the rules in baseball that make a team control a young player making peanuts for far longer than they probably should. We frequently see these deals and ask ourselves like why is that guy doing that when fact is he doesn't have much of a choice. Like RJP said, he either takes a discount and gets set for life or risk injury. This is such an easy choice. Less pre-FA years and non-guaranteed contracts with large bonuses, those are a good compromise for the next CBA. Both Football and Basketball lock in most of the top guys for 5 years. All first round picks in both sports. Football even has the franchise tag which stops guys from getting huge long-term deals. Is the system really bad? Nola just got what Gronk took for an extension and he got a lot more guaranteed money than Gronk did. What he did was smart. If he wanted to gamble look at Betts, on pace to make 50 million in his last two years of team control. I don't see how it was the system. He wouldn't be a free agent in any other sport right now. Just like with Gronk he took the money to make sure he's set for life. It's 100% guaranteed. Slight difference. Those contracts are guaranteed and they don't have to wait 2-5 years to start earning $550K for 3 years. Imagine if NFL or NBA players were forced to make $550K for 3 seasons to start their career after a much smaller signing bonus (or guaranteed money) than they now get. Also, all those NBA players become free agents by 2022, which is around the same year that a good chunk of the 2018 drafted MLB players would actually start their 6 years of service time.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 15, 2019 11:26:45 GMT -5
Also, remember that time they kept Baker Mayfield in the minor leagues for month to work on his defense which obviously had nothing to do with service time manipulation nosiree.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 15, 2019 12:15:01 GMT -5
Nola extension.....I just wonder if there isn't an effect on players concerned about future earnings because of this shit the owners are pulling. Would you risk being 30 and wanting a new contract. .I don't think the decision is that easy. And I admit I don't really know if this is a.good deal or not, but I am inclined to agree with Guidas here
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2019 12:20:42 GMT -5
Both Football and Basketball lock in most of the top guys for 5 years. All first round picks in both sports. Football even has the franchise tag which stops guys from getting huge long-term deals. Is the system really bad? Nola just got what Gronk took for an extension and he got a lot more guaranteed money than Gronk did. What he did was smart. If he wanted to gamble look at Betts, on pace to make 50 million in his last two years of team control. I don't see how it was the system. He wouldn't be a free agent in any other sport right now. Just like with Gronk he took the money to make sure he's set for life. It's 100% guaranteed. The initial salary for drafted players in the NBA and the NFL is higher than the minimum they make in the MLB, that's the main difference. I do think the system is bad, the average salary in the MLB last season was just a touch above 4 million dollars. And that's with overpaid (declining or not) players making most of that. Imagine you're Christian Vazquez and you started most of the season but then you have teammates making THIRTY times what you're making. This doesn't work like that in any other field, you're never going to perform the same job as someone being paid such a ridiculously higher amount than you are. People who fight the good fight against the "billionaires" often kid themselves thinking they're fighting the IMBALANCE IN SOCIETY, but it doesn't get more imbalanced than that. Pablo Sandoval was paid nearly double of what legendary MVP Mookie Betts received and he was exiled to the land burgers and milkshakes, how is that fair? It is what it is and I know that, it's just a bit jarring and probably could be done better. I'm not an expert on anything, but to me there's a clear path to be taken here. Create a minimum cap based on the team's revenue that they cannot go under or the owner will get executed, create prorated salaries for everyone that stays in the 40 man roster for over a year based on said minimum cap at some reasonable proportion, do away with guaranteed contracts and create some kind of maximum salary like you have in the NBA. Spread the wealth, I don't care about Manny Machado making as much money as Suriname for the next 10 years, I don't want Matt Barnes to toil away at a Wendy's serving Pablo Sandoval, who's feeling adventurous that day, if he breaks a leg real bad tomorrow. The minimum salaries for all three sports are about the same. You got guys in football making 500,000. You got guys on practice squad not getting a lot or any guaranteed money. Baseball might pay certain players less when drafted, yet spends more as a whole per year than Badketbal. Just more players in Baseball than any other sport. You can't ecpect then all to get paid. No Red Sox player made over 30 times what Vazquez made. At the same time Semi makes a fraction of what Hayward makes. Like what's the point? Every sport has this. What does Betts in his 3.3 year have to do with Sandoval? It's like comparing Tatum to Hayward, or what Trey Flowers made compared to Dwayne Allen. Young players get paid later on in every sport. Like Betts is going to make like 3-4 times what Sandoval did in his career, I just don't get it I'm all for minimum salary floors, but it can't work till you fix baseballs revenue issues. You can't have different amounts for all teams. Like you can't set the Marlins at 85 million and the Yankees at 350 million. Nola could have gambled and maybe made more like Betts. He took the safe money. It's good money.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2019 12:34:14 GMT -5
Guess this is just yet another thread where we either argue forever or just let umass think he's right. Nothing wrong with 10 WAR players in baseball making $550K idiots.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2019 12:36:46 GMT -5
Both Football and Basketball lock in most of the top guys for 5 years. All first round picks in both sports. Football even has the franchise tag which stops guys from getting huge long-term deals. Is the system really bad? Nola just got what Gronk took for an extension and he got a lot more guaranteed money than Gronk did. What he did was smart. If he wanted to gamble look at Betts, on pace to make 50 million in his last two years of team control. I don't see how it was the system. He wouldn't be a free agent in any other sport right now. Just like with Gronk he took the money to make sure he's set for life. It's 100% guaranteed. Slight difference. Those contracts are guaranteed and they don't have to wait 2-5 years to start earning $550K for 3 years. Imagine if NFL or NBA players were forced to make $550K for 3 seasons to start their career after a much smaller signing bonus (or guaranteed money) than they now get. Also, all those NBA players become free agents by 2022, which is around the same year that a good chunk of the 2018 drafted MLB players would actually start their 6 years of service time. Your talking about a handful of players, before the MLB players can make more. Chatham got more guaranteed money than most second round picks in Basketball get. Football and Basketball are full of guys making like 550,000 a year. At the sametime Betts is on pace to make like 62 million in a little over 5 years. Ayton can't make that much even if he gets a max deal after 4 years. Heck maybe if the cap goes up he can match it. It's not like he's making a lot more. He was the first pick, not a 5th rounder. Like I've said before if your issues is how long till they get to the Majors, make them all go to College like Football. I certainly don't feel bad for Betts who got $750,000 to play a few years in the minors and is close to 35 million in total earnings after this year. On his way to 30 million next year. Super two status changes a lot in Baseball.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 15, 2019 12:37:22 GMT -5
Guess this is just yet another thread where we either argue forever or just let umass think he's right. Nothing wrong with 10 WAR players in baseball making $550K idiots. What if they made $200k? $100k? Minumum wage? Less than minimum age? How little would a 10 WAR player need to make before you consider it a problem? This is not a rhetorical question. I want your real answer.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2019 12:50:53 GMT -5
Guess this is just yet another thread where we either argue forever or just let umass think he's right. Nothing wrong with 10 WAR players in baseball making $550K idiots. Every sport has great players being underpaid. Tom Brady made under 300,000 when he won his first Superbowl. Betts has had the chance to sign extensions that would have paid him more sooner. All good young Baseball players have that option. He chose to go year to year to maximize his return. Why is Baseball different than Basketball or Football? Why should late round picks be paid more early in their careers? Tons of players earn way less than they are worth in the beginning of their careers. No sport pays guys off of production on rookie deals and Betts had 1.3 seasons under his belt before that year. It makes zero sense.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2019 12:54:57 GMT -5
Guess this is just yet another thread where we either argue forever or just let umass think he's right. Nothing wrong with 10 WAR players in baseball making $550K idiots. What if they made $200k? $100k? Minumum wage? Less than minimum age? How little would a 10 WAR player need to make before you consider it a problem? This is not a rhetorical question. I want your real answer. I'm mocking umass.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2019 12:56:28 GMT -5
Guess this is just yet another thread where we either argue forever or just let umass think he's right. Nothing wrong with 10 WAR players in baseball making $550K idiots. Every sport has great players being underpaid. Tom Brady made under 300,000 when he won his first Superbowl. Betts has had the chance to sign extensions that would have paid him more sooner. All good young Baseball players have that option. He chose to go year to year to maximize his return. Why is Baseball different than Basketball or Football? Why should late round picks be paid more early in their careers? Tons of players earn way less than they are worth in the beginning of their careers. No sport pays guys off of production on rookie deals and Betts had 1.3 seasons under his belt before that year. It makes zero sense. Yep, you're right, as always. I bow down before the person on the internet who is never ever wrong.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2019 13:06:14 GMT -5
Every sport has great players being underpaid. Tom Brady made under 300,000 when he won his first Superbowl. Betts has had the chance to sign extensions that would have paid him more sooner. All good young Baseball players have that option. He chose to go year to year to maximize his return. Why is Baseball different than Basketball or Football? Why should late round picks be paid more early in their careers? Tons of players earn way less than they are worth in the beginning of their careers. No sport pays guys off of production on rookie deals and Betts had 1.3 seasons under his belt before that year. It makes zero sense. Yep, you're right, as always. I bow down before the person on the internet who is never ever wrong. About time!😀😂👍🐐
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2019 13:07:37 GMT -5
Yep, you're right, as always. I bow down before the person on the internet who is never ever wrong. About time!😀😂👍🐐 Quick, there's another thread somewhere where your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong. Better get to it.
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