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2019 Patriots Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2019 16:29:57 GMT -5
To be clear, you dont have to declare them as DTR. Every player put on IR after the cutdown is eligible. Obviously, you can bring back only 2. So Rivers was put on IR ahead of the cutdown bc they dont believe he can return. I know the rules. What is Rivers injury? It's like Christan Sam last year, no one has reported anything. If it was clear cut he was done for the year, he likely would have been placed on the IR right after it happened like King was. He wasn't so it's not a given he couldn't return this year, we just don't know. It's also very likely if you know you"re going to bring back Harry already, that the hassle of keeping Rivers on the first 53 wasn't worth it when you might need that for another player. Heck maybe it's a combo of both, yet it seems like a fairly safe bet unless something happens that Harry is going to be brought back this year. The Patriots use the IR to stash players, not all of the players don't have the ability to come back. They just don't think it's worth it, for one reason or another. Look at Izzo last year, kinda like Gunner this year just the opposite. They were going to keep him on the 53 then IR him so he could come back, then changed their minds at the last second when a better option came along and put him on the IR before the final 53. Usually anyone that isn't placed on IR till the last second has a chance to come back, they could have brought in someone over the last two weeks like they did when King. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 2, 2019 17:11:06 GMT -5
To be clear, you dont have to declare them as DTR. Every player put on IR after the cutdown is eligible. Obviously, you can bring back only 2. So Rivers was put on IR ahead of the cutdown bc they dont believe he can return. I know the rules. What is Rivers injury? It's like Christan Sam last year, no one has reported anything. If it was clear cut he was done for the year, he likely would have been placed on the IR right after it happened like King was. He wasn't so it's not a given he couldn't return this year, we just don't know. It's also very likely if you know you"re going to bring back Harry already, that the hassle of keeping Rivers on the first 53 wasn't worth it when you might need that for another player. Heck maybe it's a combo of both, yet it seems like a fairly safe bet unless something happens that Harry is going to be brought back this year. The Patriots use the IR to stash players, not all of the players don't have the ability to come back. They just don't think it's worth it, for one reason or another. Look at Izzo last year, kinda like Gunner this year just the opposite. They were going to keep him on the 53 then IR him so he could come back, then changed their minds at the last second when a better option came along and put him on the IR before the final 53. Usually anyone that isn't placed on IR till the last second has a chance to come back, they could have brought in someone over the last two weeks like they did when King. They can’t just do that though without the players consent. I find it hard to believe Rivers would agree to sit on IR for a full year again if he didn’t need to. If he’s not really hurt then there will be an injury settlement and he will get released. |
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Post by texs31 on Sept 2, 2019 19:49:36 GMT -5
When he only has 1 more year to earn his next contract? Yeah, tough sell.
They were all ready to cut Gunner. I'd imagine doing so for Rivers wouldn't be that much of a hassle. You have weeks to determine if Rivers can come back.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2019 22:50:32 GMT -5
I know the rules. What is Rivers injury? It's like Christan Sam last year, no one has reported anything. If it was clear cut he was done for the year, he likely would have been placed on the IR right after it happened like King was. He wasn't so it's not a given he couldn't return this year, we just don't know. It's also very likely if you know you"re going to bring back Harry already, that the hassle of keeping Rivers on the first 53 wasn't worth it when you might need that for another player. Heck maybe it's a combo of both, yet it seems like a fairly safe bet unless something happens that Harry is going to be brought back this year. The Patriots use the IR to stash players, not all of the players don't have the ability to come back. They just don't think it's worth it, for one reason or another. Look at Izzo last year, kinda like Gunner this year just the opposite. They were going to keep him on the 53 then IR him so he could come back, then changed their minds at the last second when a better option came along and put him on the IR before the final 53. Usually anyone that isn't placed on IR till the last second has a chance to come back, they could have brought in someone over the last two weeks like they did when King. They can’t just do that though without the players consent. I find it hard to believe Rivers would agree to sit on IR for a full year again if he didn’t need to. If he’s not really hurt then there will be an injury settlement and he will get released. It happens all the time. What are you talking about if he's not hurt there would be an injury settlement? If he refused the IR there would be an injury settlement. I mean if he asked they could technically still do it, but don't have to now. Who said he wasn't hurt? It's how bad is he hurt and could he come back. If it was clear cut he's done for the year, he would have been IR then. They didn't wait to cutdown day to IR King. I would agree Rivers likely wouldn't sit on the IR for a full year healthy, but he's clearly not healthy. I can certainly see him wanting to stay with the team that drafted him, the team that has three years of development into him, the team that just switched to a D that seems perfect for him. Over having to rehab on his own, then find a new team mid-season and hope he doesn't have any set backs. Going on the IR is the safe bet for his career and bank account. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 3, 2019 13:20:03 GMT -5
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Post by philarhody on Sept 4, 2019 7:22:25 GMT -5
Anyone else nervous about Harry? I’m not convinced he has the mental toughness for this team. Seems like every picture taken of him includes a placid indifferent face while he watches others practice.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 4, 2019 7:40:43 GMT -5
Anyone else nervous about Harry? I’m not convinced he has the mental toughness for this team. Seems like every picture taken of him includes a placid indifferent face while he watches others practice. I’m not excited he’s missing the first half of the season but I’m certainly not worried about his mental toughness. That flies in the face of everything we read about him coming in. High ankle sprains and hamstrings are injuries that take a long time to get right so it’s smart to get him 100%. Also, the phrase “a picture tells 1,000 words” should include “most of them misleading” at the end. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 4, 2019 8:50:57 GMT -5
Bill made a comment along the lines of you can't get back missed time when talking about the WRs. Learning the playbook for a WR in this offense isn't the easiest and then you need to adjust and learn with Brady. That's a whole other skill to master, you basically need to think like him and be able to read the D. Look at Meyers he seems to get the offense, clicked with Hoyer and Stidham, yet looked like a different player with Brady. To be a top target for Brady he demands you do the little things. While some guys get his trust right away, a lot of guys take time. Look at Dorsett this year compared to last year.
I don't care about any pictures or facial expressions, but if Harry is going to develop into that beast we hope he will with Brady he'll have to be mentally smart. So it's not a horrible thing for him to get 100% healthy, spend extra time learning the plays and studying what Mr. Brady demands of his WRs. The timing just sucks, because the like four weeks of practice he lost were the most important ones, he can't get back that time he would have had with Brady.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 5, 2019 11:07:35 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 5, 2019 12:38:54 GMT -5
It’s not that easy. Bill is really just that much smarter than everyone else and better at everything football related. The guy is a legit genius at every phase of the game and that extends to understanding the rules. For example, watching the NFL network stuff last night, McVay was telling Bill how great he was as changing and adapting week to week and it kind of dawned on me, he’s never going to be able to do what Bill dies because he’s been an offensive guy 100% of his life. Bill mastered special teams, which he always talks about as being so important to learning to manage the whole roster. He spend a bunch of years on offense and then was all over the Defense. Bill can legitimately teach technique to every position on the field and sees things no one else does. He does ALL this and still listens and learns from guys under him on his own staff. He talked about learning from McDaniels last night. I could keep going on and on but he’s the absolute best and you can’t really over exaggerate it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 5, 2019 14:06:39 GMT -5
I agree on the whole package, yet it isn't Bill is just smarter because the Patriots know the rules and things like salary cap better than all other teams. Teams can do a lot of what the Patriots do without having Bill, yet they don't. Even guys like Matt who seems just like Bill, yet first thing he does is spend big on free agents. Look at O'Brien in Houston, trades Clowney for a third while paying half his salary and trades two first round picks, plus extra picks for a decent LT. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out those moves are crazy anti Patriot moves. If you fail at building a deep roster because you don't know talent like Bill okay I get that, yet it's like most teams don't try. They want top heavy teams with as many stars as they can get.
Bill spent only one year in 1977 on offense as a WRs coach. I wouldn't say that made a huge difference. I mean if McVay is crazy smart he can for sure pick up the knowledge over time no? If you think Bill can teach every position, he did just that because he never came close to coaching every position. At the same time Bill spent decades learning the game and today they want young coaches with a lot less experience. McVay only had like 25 years less experience than Bill did when he became coach of the Patriots.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 5, 2019 16:13:34 GMT -5
I agree on the whole package, yet it isn't Bill is just smarter because the Patriots know the rules and things like salary cap better than all other teams. Teams can do a lot of what the Patriots do without having Bill, yet they don't. You can but when desperation sets in people panic and make stupid moves. You also need a certain temperament. Bill is a hard ass but he’s also has a lighthearted side behind the scenes. That’s hard to pull off. What’d Bennett say about Bill when he was late for camp? “It’s nice when you’re treated like a man.” Something like that... it’s not as easy as just doing certain things. It’s getting players to buy in. It’s having the ability to identify players who will. I know you think guys like McCourty and Hightower are overpaid and should have been cut but I am pretty confident saying they go a long way to keeping the locker room how Bill needs it. We’ve seen seasons where that falls apart (see 2009) and Bill cleans up and regroups because even he can get things done how he wants in those situations. Job security - that he earns - let’s him do things other coaches can’t. Yes, McVay can and will learn more things. He seems like a guy who has the right outlook and I bet Bill will help him do that if McVay asks. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2019 1:58:08 GMT -5
I agree on the whole package, yet it isn't Bill is just smarter because the Patriots know the rules and things like salary cap better than all other teams. Teams can do a lot of what the Patriots do without having Bill, yet they don't. You can but when desperation sets in people panic and make stupid moves. You also need a certain temperament. Bill is a hard ass but he’s also has a lighthearted side behind the scenes. That’s hard to pull off. What’d Bennett say about Bill when he was late for camp? “It’s nice when you’re treated like a man.” Something like that... it’s not as easy as just doing certain things. It’s getting players to buy in. It’s having the ability to identify players who will. I know you think guys like McCourty and Hightower are overpaid and should have been cut but I am pretty confident saying they go a long way to keeping the locker room how Bill needs it. We’ve seen seasons where that falls apart (see 2009) and Bill cleans up and regroups because even he can get things done how he wants in those situations. Job security - that he earns - let’s him do things other coaches can’t. Yes, McVay can and will learn more things. He seems like a guy who has the right outlook and I bet Bill will help him do that if McVay asks. When did I want to cut Hightower? If I remember right you kept saying we'd cut Hightower or someone else did. Cutting him makes little sense given his dead money hit, you save less than 4 million and he's worth that. I would have loved a restructure, but the playoffs killed that. McCourty I would have liked an extension or yea I might have released him if I needed the money, you save almost 10 million with him. Thinking at the time was to take that money and invest in the younger better Flowers. Yet then he got crazy money. Still McCourty was rated 11th by PFF for Safeties and has the highest cap charge for a safety in football or at least he did when last I checked. Still a very good player, but he's making elite money. So yea I'd have to agree leadership and fit came into play, something else did. Then again we still have almost 10 million in cap space, no reason for 20 million and you still have plenty of space to offer Gronk good money if he changes his mind. No one will ever be Bill. The way he acts make him unique for sure, yet I can see a coach doing it differently and still being great. If he can really coach, learn how to build a team team year in and year out, be highly intelligent, think long-term and avoid those huge short-term go for it mistakes. Look at the draft, almost no contenders act the Patriots and make tons of picks. It's not even like the Patriots are great in the draft, more like average. Yet those extra picks more than make up for it. Trades we make value trades, not desperate we have to have this guy to win right now type trades. The Texans trading two first round picks for that LT who is just good and was the guy on ESPN taking mask bong hits before the draft if I remember right. Bill trades three lower round picks and rebuilds the depth of the whole OL and he only had to do that because Andrews got injured, Jared retired, and Yondy hasn't been able to get healthy. We might never see a guy have the whole package as Bill, just surprised so few teams don't try and copy the rather simple things he does. Gotta give Kraft his due, he lets Bill do his thing and fully supports him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2019 6:50:25 GMT -5
Of course other coaches can be great and other people can be great but this was a question of doing it exactly how the Patriots do it and that’s just almost impossible to replicate. We haven’t even brought up the fact that Bill is both coach and GM - that’s hard for coaches to pull off for so many reasons. Maybe the most difficult is disciplining players then having to coach them and keep their respect. Look at Oakland - Mayock is dealing with AB while Gruden gets to be the supportive nice guy.
Yet another unique thing about Bill is how he hires coaches and personnel people and develops them. Scar is unique he doesn’t get credit for him. But look at McDaniels been here since 2001 except for his few year hiatus. Look at a guy like Ernie Adams... not a typical football guy but brings so much.
And like you said you need an owner like Kraft to let Bill so his thing and he goes out of his way to make the players feel like family.
And of course there’s Brady.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2019 6:52:58 GMT -5
I may have been mistaken on Hightower but I know they were 2 guys as you identified as being overpaid and not worth their contracts. I was just using them to point out how they are key cogs in the locker room and on the field in other ways than simple production. They allow Bill to do what he does. Obviously at some point the play falls too far it can’t carry that other stuff but those guys aren’t there yet.
Side note: if Hightower is healthy would it surprise us if he had one if the best years of his career this season?
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2019 6:55:43 GMT -5
Jeremy Tunsil was the guy with the pot video. The video was actually posted right before the draft so there was no time to vet it and it screwed him. It was an old video - i think it was at least 2 years old. There was also something about text messages where he was asking his coaches for money for rent i think.
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Post by costpet on Sept 6, 2019 8:47:55 GMT -5
I think the offense is a work in progress and it will improve as the year goes on. But, I am really excited about their defense. I think it could dominate. That will give Brady/McDaniels a chance to straighten things out.
I think our biggest weakness will be at center. Teams like to attack Brady with pressure up the middle. That could be a problem as Karras is not as good as Andrews. They might have to add a blocker in the backfield. We'll see.
Like watching Rogers last night comparing him to Brady. Rogers hold on to the ball way too long waiting for the deep ball to develop, then has to run around to avoid a sack. Brady just steps up and lets it fly quickly.
Sunday can't come quick enough. The rings are for the players. The banner is for the fans.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 6, 2019 10:09:31 GMT -5
Bodine out. Ferentz back in.
Some are speculating that this could be a temporary thing as they need someone to back up Karras NOW and Bodine might need time to become more familiar with the system (OL, Brady, etc).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2019 12:55:48 GMT -5
Jeremy Tunsil was the guy with the pot video. The video was actually posted right before the draft so there was no time to vet it and it screwed him. It was an old video - i think it was at least 2 years old. There was also something about text messages where he was asking his coaches for money for rent i think. Laremy the guy the Texans traded two first round picks for. Had the weed issue, took money from coaches and was sued by his grandfather in a matter of a couple days. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Sept 7, 2019 7:27:02 GMT -5
I may have been mistaken on Hightower but I know they were 2 guys as you identified as being overpaid and not worth their contracts. I was just using them to point out how they are key cogs in the locker room and on the field in other ways than simple production. They allow Bill to do what he does. Obviously at some point the play falls too far it can’t carry that other stuff but those guys aren’t there yet. Side note: if Hightower is healthy would it surprise us if he had one if the best years of his career this season? This is a very good and deep LB/DE group. Collins, Simon, Winovich, Bennett, Van Noy. Combine that with a very good secondary. I hope they are more aggressive this year like they became last year when it counted, lots of smart veterans. Could be a great year. |
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 7, 2019 8:31:32 GMT -5
The day before the season starts. Three ,quote, expert sites have the pats going 12-4 and losing in the conference champ. Anyone want to give their expert opinion on a projection? Looks like a reasonable forecast. I am concerned about the o line. A rookie playing LT. And some other new people. But Bill has worked his magic for a long time.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 7, 2019 8:32:25 GMT -5
Does Gronk come back in the off week for the rest of the season? I think not?
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Post by costpet on Sept 7, 2019 8:53:19 GMT -5
Gronk is gone for good. He gave enough of his body. A lot of girls will be disappointed when he gets married. Next stop...HOF.
A lot of predictions said the Bears will be one of the best this year. That says a lot about predictions. Their QB is awful. Probably a 9-7 team.
Who is our backup C? Anybody?
Antonio Brown is a cancer to any team. If he doesn't get enough targets, he will have a melt down. Can you imagine him talking back to BB? Benched forever.
Anybody going to watch the Sox/Yanks game at 8PM tomorrow longer than 1 inning?
I see some predictions have us losing in the playoffs. Don't they predict that every year? They forget BB can outcoach anyone.
Jim Rome said he would never, ever ever bet against the Patriots. I think he likes us.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 7, 2019 9:43:53 GMT -5
Gronk is gone for good. He gave enough of his body. A lot of girls will be disappointed when he gets married. Next stop...HOF. A lot of predictions said the Bears will be one of the best this year. That says a lot about predictions. Their QB is awful. Probably a 9-7 team. Who is our backup C? Anybody? Antonio Brown is a cancer to any team. If he doesn't get enough targets, he will have a melt down. Can you imagine him talking back to BB? Benched forever. Anybody going to watch the Sox/Yanks game at 8PM tomorrow longer than 1 inning? I see some predictions have us losing in the playoffs. Don't they predict that every year? They forget BB can outcoach anyone. Jim Rome said he would never, ever ever bet against the Patriots. I think he likes us. So what is your projection for the pats this year? |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 7, 2019 10:00:57 GMT -5
Antonio Brown is a cancer to any team. If he doesn't get enough targets, he will have a melt down. Can you imagine him talking back to BB? Benched forever. LMAO at the Antonio Brown saga. Stay classy NFL players. |
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